From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Wed Feb  1 03:09:09 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb  1 03:22:08 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
In-Reply-To: <200601312234.42408.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
References: <200601312234.42408.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <42408.70.172.219.12.1138781349.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Tue, January 31, 2006 10:34 pm, dennis e. powell said:

> and now, the more i think about it, i believe that the phrase should
> be "cindy sheehan, who has not been publicly identified as a covert
> agent of the cia" posted as frequently as possible.

That's the way to go, after the fashion of Taranto who (I credit him
-- could be wrong) gave currency to "-- who by the way served in
Vietnam --" conjoined to every mention of John F. Kerry.


-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From prather.js at verizon.net  Wed Feb  1 08:30:45 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Wed Feb  1 08:32:11 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: [eCS] Using your laptop
Message-ID: <0IU000189G7AYZT2@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================

Last time I was on a plane, they wouldn't let me use my eCS
laptop.  
They told me I was in a windows seat!

<rim shot!>

Tell that one to your geekier friends.  Works with any non
windows laptop.

-- 
===============================================================
Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
Webmaster http://www.billswoodshed.com
David Eckard
===============================================================

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From prather.js at verizon.net  Wed Feb  1 08:53:40 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Wed Feb  1 08:54:11 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
In-Reply-To: <200601312234.42408.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <0IU0007FUH9GXBL2@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:34:42 -0500, dennis e. powell wrote:

>i think that it is important that whenever cindy gets mentioned, the 
>response be "SHHHHH -- she might be with the cia."

And Sheehan struck again last night...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183392,00.html

Anything to stay in the spotlight...

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Wed Feb  1 10:25:48 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb  1 10:27:13 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
In-Reply-To: <0IU0007FUH9GXBL2@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602011525.k11FPmOV012028@oasis.novia.net>

On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:53:40 -0500 (EST), Jerry Prather wrote:

>And Sheehan struck again last night...
>http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183392,00.html

>Anything to stay in the spotlight...

Sheehan, who has not been publicly identified as a covert agent of the cia




From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Wed Feb  1 10:50:09 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dennis e. powell)
Date: Wed Feb  1 10:51:13 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
In-Reply-To: <200602011525.k11FPmOV012028@oasis.novia.net>
References: <200602011525.k11FPmOV012028@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <200602011050.09989.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Mike Riddle:
| On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:53:40 -0500 (EST), Jerry Prather wrote:
| >And Sheehan struck again last night...
| >http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183392,00.html
| >
| >Anything to stay in the spotlight...
|
| Sheehan, who has not been publicly identified as a covert agent of
| the cia

yet. we can't say for sure that it won't happen.

dep
-- 
Once abolish the God, and the government becomes the God.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Wed Feb  1 11:56:40 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca)
Date: Wed Feb  1 11:58:14 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
In-Reply-To: <200602011525.k11FPmOV012028@oasis.novia.net>
References: <200602011525.k11FPmOV012028@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <200602010856.40502.spmaiorca@cox.net>

she is a nutcase there is a reason I state she is happy her son is dead.
On Wednesday 01 February 2006 7:25 am, Mike Riddle wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Feb 2006 08:53:40 -0500 (EST), Jerry Prather wrote:
> >And Sheehan struck again last night...
> >http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,183392,00.html
> >
> >Anything to stay in the spotlight...
>
> Sheehan, who has not been publicly identified as a covert agent of the cia
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Wed Feb  1 14:57:04 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb  1 15:02:17 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Buy Danish!
Message-ID: <46314.70.172.219.12.1138823824.squirrel@legomenon.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004428.htm


- --
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

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=huHx
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From drepouille at hotmail.com  Wed Feb  1 17:42:59 2006
From: drepouille at hotmail.com (Dana Repouille)
Date: Wed Feb  1 17:44:21 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
In-Reply-To: <200602011525.k11FPmOV012028@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV104253E1797EBC550577AADA0B0@phx.gbl>

Cindy who?
From prather.js at verizon.net  Wed Feb  1 14:26:04 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Wed Feb  1 17:49:21 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Now look who's trying to grab attention...
Message-ID: <0IU000K88WNGL6H1@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash5kt.htm

And isn't it known that 78% of all statistics are made up on the
spot?


Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Wed Feb  1 17:56:18 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb  1 18:03:23 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV104253E1797EBC550577AADA0B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200602012256.k11MuJKS017227@oasis.novia.net>

On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:42:59 -0600, Dana Repouille wrote:

>Cindy who?

Cindy Sheehan, who has not yet been publicly identified as an 
undercover CIA operative.



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From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Wed Feb  1 18:43:47 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb  1 18:44:21 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Now look who's trying to grab attention...
In-Reply-To: <0IU000K88WNGL6H1@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IU000K88WNGL6H1@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <47673.70.172.219.12.1138837427.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Wed, February 1, 2006 2:26 pm, Jerry Prather said:

> http://www.drudgereport.com/flash5kt.htm

See it on the big screen!!!:

http://media.michellemalkin.com/videos/53percent.wmv


-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Wed Feb  1 18:43:40 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Wed Feb  1 18:45:20 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
Message-ID: <20060201234159.EQVB17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

exactly.
> 
> From: "Dana Repouille" <drepouille@hotmail.com>
> Date: 2006/02/01 Wed PM 05:42:59 EST
> To: "'Mike Riddle'" <mriddle@oasis.novia.net>, 
>         "'Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life.'" <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: RE: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
> 
> Cindy who?
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

From drepouille at hotmail.com  Wed Feb  1 21:36:36 2006
From: drepouille at hotmail.com (Dana Repouille)
Date: Wed Feb  1 21:37:23 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
In-Reply-To: <200602012256.k11MuJKS017227@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV1633CECC447608A503308DA0A0@phx.gbl>

Yeah, but my point was, "Who cares?"

Dana 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@oasis.novia.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:56 PM
To: Dana Repouille; Right-minded discussion of computing, politics, and
life.
Subject: RE: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy

On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:42:59 -0600, Dana Repouille wrote:

>Cindy who?

Cindy Sheehan, who has not yet been publicly identified as an 
undercover CIA operative.



From sweeks1951 at netzero.net  Wed Feb  1 22:54:02 2006
From: sweeks1951 at netzero.net (Steve Weeks)
Date: Wed Feb  1 22:55:24 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV1633CECC447608A503308DA0A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIKEFKCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>

Dana, Cindy Sheehan ( who has not yet been publicly identified as an
undercover CIA operative) probably cares, but yeah, I get your point..
.

-----Original Message-----
From: os2-right-stuff-l-bounces@jtan.com
[mailto:os2-right-stuff-l-bounces@jtan.com]On Behalf Of Dana Repouille
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 6:37 PM
To: 'Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,and life.'
Subject: RE: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy

Yeah, but my point was, "Who cares?"

Dana

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@oasis.novia.net]
Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:56 PM
To: Dana Repouille; Right-minded discussion of computing, politics, and
life.
Subject: RE: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy

On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:42:59 -0600, Dana Repouille wrote:

>Cindy who?

Cindy Sheehan, who has not yet been publicly identified as an
undercover CIA operative.



_______________________________________________
os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l


From spmaiorca at cox.net  Thu Feb  2 01:03:56 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Thu Feb  2 01:05:25 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
Message-ID: <20060202060306.XEZJ6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

This was why I wrote exactly I figured you were saying who should realy care?
> 
> From: "Dana Repouille" <drepouille@hotmail.com>
> Date: 2006/02/01 Wed PM 09:36:36 EST
> To: "'Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life.'" <>
> Subject: RE: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
> 
> Yeah, but my point was, "Who cares?"
> 
> Dana 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Riddle [mailto:mriddle@oasis.novia.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 4:56 PM
> To: Dana Repouille; Right-minded discussion of computing, politics, and
> life.
> Subject: RE: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
> 
> On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 16:42:59 -0600, Dana Repouille wrote:
> 
> >Cindy who?
> 
> Cindy Sheehan, who has not yet been publicly identified as an 
> undercover CIA operative.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Thu Feb  2 02:35:28 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Thu Feb  2 02:36:28 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Start anywhere...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0602020232020.5396@trollboy.legomenon.org>

Take your pick of the lead articles about Denmark and Iran, and then 
scroll down for more goodies!!

This is a great site, getting better and better methinks.

http://www.americanthinker.com/index.php

-- 
Bob (ZoidBoy) Bernstein
From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Thu Feb  2 07:54:21 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Thu Feb  2 07:55:32 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fun with cindy
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV1633CECC447608A503308DA0A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200602021254.k12CsMLb006076@oasis.novia.net>

On Wed, 1 Feb 2006 20:36:36 -0600, Dana Repouille wrote:

>Yeah, but my point was, "Who cares?"

Oh, I DO!  I just love the position she places the Democrats in!





From operagost at operagost.com  Thu Feb  2 14:45:13 2006
From: operagost at operagost.com (operagost@operagost.com)
Date: Thu Feb  2 14:49:38 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Hamas = Nazi?
Message-ID: <06020214451365_2020A95D@operagost.com>

Does Palestine* 2006 = Germany 1933?

* a fictional construct accorded with existence merely for convenience of this discussion.
From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Thu Feb  2 17:50:21 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Thu Feb  2 17:51:41 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Garrison Keillor: "scathing"?
Message-ID: <43E28CAD.8010503@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

A tad late getting to this...

-=snip=-

Bernard-Henri Levy Offers Riposte to Garrison Keillor
Lunch at the Four Seasons

BY PRANAY GUPTE - Special to the Sun
January 31, 2006
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/26720

Bernard-Henri Levy says that his new book, "American Vertigo:
Traveling America in the Footsteps of Tocqueville," is not only a
celebration of the country that his fellow Frenchman famously wrote
about in the early 19th century.

It is also, however subtly, a missive to his native France, and the
world at large, about the rigorous efforts needed to sustain democracy
and liberty - and about the need to answer anti-Americanism, he said
yesterday.

"You answer such anti-Americanism by offering proof of America's
reality - that it's a healthy democracy, that it isn't neo-imperial,
that its economy is in good shape, and that America's power truly lies
not only in its currency or military, but the enduring optimism of its
people. This self-confidence is America's real wealth. America's power
also flows from the confidence of the world in its power - why else
does everybody want American dollars, or send their children and
company managers to study in America?

"Liberty - the great American spirit of freedom and enterprise - will
not disappear," he said.

"I loved this country before I wrote this book - I love it even more
now," Mr. Levy said. "Maybe an American couldn't write this book - it
takes a foreigner. Yes, to be a foreigner does mean that something of
the country's spirit escapes you. But you approach America with a
fresh, candid eye that sometimes a native prefers not to possess. I am
a friend of America, and like all friends I speak frankly and with an
open heart. I came without a screen in front of my eyes, without
prejudices, without an agenda."

That remark seemed to be a riposte to Garrison Keillor's scathing
front page review Sunday in the New York Times Book Review.

"In my all my travels across America, I didn't meet a single
Francophobe," Mr. Levy said. "But the New York Times article gave me
venom on a dish."

"Was the reviewer Francophobic? Was he looking down at me because I
was French?" he said. "Maybe I will respond more fully later. But
overall, I thought the review was well-written. And at least now I
know that this book has the ability to provoke this sort of
Francophobia and American populism - that's great. If somebody says,
'He's a Frenchman - what does he know?' that to me is a symptom of
Francophobia."

"America is often demonized abroad," Mr. Levy said. "The best way to
respond to such demonization is to show that America is a great nation
that makes some mistakes - but it's a great country nevertheless.
What's surprised me is that this country is in much less of a crisis
that what's being said abroad. Democracy here is more sane than is
supposed elsewhere."

"Anti-Americanism is a plague," he said. "Say what you will about
America - but it still stands for fighting for truth and justice."

But there are growing threats to America's freedom - and, indeed, to
free societies everywhere, Mr. Levy said.

"One threat is green fascism - Islamic fascism," he said. "Radical
Islam is, to me, the real devil. And the victims of this Islamic
fascism are often Muslim themselves. The battle is this: how to
reinforce moderate Muslims against the radicals. And the battlefield
is there. Look around you."

He cited last week's elections in Gaza and the West Bank, in which the
terrorist organization Hamas won a stunning majority in the
Palestinian parliament.

"The program of destroying Israel and the Jews comes from Islamic
fascists," Mr. Levy said. "But this is the first time that such a
program has been endorsed and blessed by a democratically elected
government. We have to resist this."

The Algerian-born Mr. Levy's regard for America - and his career as a
successful writer - began 35 years ago when he answered Andre
Malraux's call to fight for freedom and democracy in Bangladesh, and
flew to witness its bloody war of independence from Pakistan.

"It was a terrible experience of human damnation," Mr. Levy said.
"Imprinted on my mind were unforgettable images of butchery and
horror. Bangladesh drove home to me the importance of free societies -
and how the American experience of liberation from tyranny resonated
around the world."

Bangladesh generated not only that realization in Mr. Levy but also
outrage over human rights abuses in different parts of the world. It
spawned his first book, a jeremiad against such abuses and a
philosophical inquiry into the causes of calamity.

Over the next three decades, Mr. Levy traveled widely around the globe
in pursuit of that inquiry.

"I became - and still am - a militant for truth, justice, and human
rights," he said. "I communicate that message in my own special way -
through a melange of reportage, philosophy, and speculation."

He went to Rwanda and Sudan to see for himself the impact of genocide
on already fragile societies. He went to several other sub-Saharan
countries to follow what he called the "forgotten wars." He went to
Algeria to assess the influence of radical Islam. He went to Pakistan
to investigate the murder by Muslim radicals of Daniel Pearl, a Wall
Street Journal reporter. He was with President Karzai of Afghanistan
when an aide broke the news of Pearl's death.

He went to the Middle East to study what he called "the unbearable
loneliness of Israel."

Mr. Levy's passion for Israel and Judaism flows from the fact that he
is a Jew. His father, Andre - a timber entrepreneur - and mother,
Gina, were wealthy; both had been born in Algeria. Their son wasn't
particularly observant, and his education had been entirely secular,
much of it at a prestigious school that Jean-Paul Sartre had also
attended. (Mr. Levy later wrote a biography of Sartre, the existential
writer and Nobel laureate.)

"I returned to Judaism as an adult - not for religious reasons but
because I needed the philosophical ground," Mr. Levy said. "I was
looking for the right tools - and I found them in the Bible and Talmud."

Mr. Levy said he "found" the heart of America during his early
travels. And he found his own heart when he met and married an
acclaimed actress in France, Arielle Dombasle. She came from a
blue-blooded family. Her grandfather had negotiated a major trade
treaty between France and America.

Ms. Dombasle was born in Connecticut and is an American citizen.

"You see? I have a very close connection to America," Mr. Levy said.

-=snip=-


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From prather.js at verizon.net  Thu Feb  2 18:35:06 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Thu Feb  2 18:37:42 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Garrison Keillor: "scathing"?
In-Reply-To: <43E28CAD.8010503@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <0IU300GHE2UII9H0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 17:50:21 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

>Bernard-Henri Levy Offers Riposte to Garrison Keillor
>Lunch at the Four Seasons

I'm curious as to what Garrison Keillor had to say...
(since I'm not one who is a regular reader of the NY Times or
pays much attention to whatever goes on in NY).

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Thu Feb  2 18:42:53 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Thu Feb  2 18:43:42 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Today's Must-read
Message-ID: <43E298FD.3010108@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Thanks to Michelle Malkin's blog:

http://commentarymagazine.com/production/files/schoenfeld0306advance.html



-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Thu Feb  2 19:11:32 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Thu Feb  2 19:11:41 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Garrison Keillor: "scathing"?
In-Reply-To: <0IU300GHE2UII9H0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IU300GHE2UII9H0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0602021909420.7444@trollboy.legomenon.org>

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Jerry Prather wrote:

> I'm curious as to what Garrison Keillor had to say...

Me too!

> (since I'm not one who is a regular reader of the NY Times or pays much 
> attention to whatever goes on in NY).

Please post what you find out here!


;-)



-- 
Bob (ZoidBoy) Bernstein
From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Thu Feb  2 19:45:04 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Thu Feb  2 19:45:42 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Re: Top 11 Alternative Names for Bareback
	Mountain
Message-ID: <20060203004507.GDUJ5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster>


==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


11. "Queer Eye for the Steer Guy"


10. "Not-That-There's-Anything-Wrong-With-That Mountain"


9. "How The West Was Hung"


8. "Little Bathhouse on the Prairie"


7. "For a Few Dollars More We Can Make It a Threesome"


6. "Go West, Young Man...Now South..A Little More To The South... Oh 
God, Yes!  Right There!"


5. "Clint Eastwood's Nightmare"


4. "The Good, The Bad and The Fabulous!"


3. "Broke My Back Mounting Him"


2. "Oklahomo"
  

1. "Fun With Dick In James"





===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================



From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Thu Feb  2 19:43:59 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Thu Feb  2 19:45:42 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Garrison Keillor: "scathing"?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0602021909420.7444@trollboy.legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <200602030044.k130i4Xk013461@oasis.novia.net>

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 19:11:32 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>> I'm curious as to what Garrison Keillor had to say...

>Me too!

>> (since I'm not one who is a regular reader of the NY Times or pays much 
>> attention to whatever goes on in NY).

>Please post what you find out here!

January 29, 2006

'American Vertigo: Traveling America in the Footsteps of Tocqueville,' 
by Bernard-Henri L?vy

On the Road Avec M. L?vy

Review by GARRISON KEILLOR

Correction Appended

Any American with a big urge to write a book explaining France to the French 
should read this book first, to get a sense of the hazards involved. 
Bernard-Henri L?vy is a French writer with a spatter-paint prose style and 
the grandiosity of a college sophomore; he rambled around this country at 
the behest of The Atlantic Monthly and now has worked up his notes into a 
sort of book. It is the classic Freaks, Fatties, Fanatics & Faux Culture 
Excursion beloved of European journalists for the past 50 years, with stops 
at Las Vegas to visit a lap-dancing club and a brothel; Beverly Hills; 
Dealey Plaza in Dallas; Bourbon Street in New Orleans; Graceland; a gun show 
in Fort Worth; a "partner-swapping club" in San Francisco with a drag queen 
with mammoth silicone breasts; the Iowa State Fair ("a festival of American 
kitsch"); Sun City ("gilded apartheid for the old");a stock car race; the 
Mall of America; Mount Rushmore; a couple of evangelical megachurches; the 
Mormons of Salt Lake; some Amish; the 2004 national political conventions; 
Alcatraz - you get the idea. (For some reason he missed the Sturgis 
Motorcycle Rally, the adult video awards, the grave site of Warren G. 
Harding and the World's Largest Ball of Twine.) You meet Sharon Stone and 
John Kerry and a woman who once weighed 488 pounds and an obese couple 
carrying rifles, but there's nobody here whom you recognize. In more than 
300 pages, nobody tells a joke. Nobody does much work. Nobody sits and eats 
and enjoys their food. You've lived all your life in America, never attended 
a megachurch or a brothel, don't own guns, are non-Amish, and it dawns on 
you that this is a book about the French. There's no reason for it to exist 
in English, except as evidence that travel need not be broadening and one 
should be wary of books with Tocqueville in the title.

In New Orleans, a young woman takes off her clothes on a balcony as young 
men throw Mardi Gras beads up at her. We learn that much of the city is 
below sea level. At the stock car race, L?vy senses that the spectators 
"both dread and hope for an accident." We learn that Los Angeles has no 
center and is one of the most polluted cities in the country. "Headed for 
Virginia, and for Norfolk, which is, if I'm not mistaken, one of the oldest 
towns in a state that was one of the original 13 in the union," L?vy writes. 
Yes, indeed. He likes Savannah and gets delirious about Seattle, especially 
the Space Needle, which represents for him "everything that America has 
always made me dream of: poetry and modernity, precariousness and technical 
challenge, lightness of form meshed with a Babel syndrome, city lights, the 
haunting quality of darkness, tall trees of steel." O.K., fine. The Eiffel 
Tower is quite the deal, too.

But every 10 pages or so, L?vy walks into a wall. About Old Glory, for 
example. Someone has told him about the rules for proper handling of the 
flag, and from these (the flag must not be allowed to touch the ground, must 
be disposed of by burning) he has invented an American flag fetish, a 
national obsession, a cult of flag worship. Somebody forgot to tell him that 
to those of us not currently enrolled in the Boy Scouts, these rules aren't 
a big part of everyday life. He blows a radiator writing about baseball - 
"this sport that contributes to establishing people's identities and that 
has truly become part of their civic and patriotic religion, which is 
baseball" - and when, visiting Cooperstown ("this new Nazareth"), he finds 
out that Commissioner Bud Selig once laid a wreath at the tomb of the 
Unknown Soldier at Arlington, where Abner Doubleday is also buried, L?vy 
goes out of his mind. An event important only to Selig and his immediate 
family becomes, to L?vy, an official proclamation "before the eyes of 
America and the world" of Abner as "the pope of the national religion . . . 
that day not just the town but the entire United States joined in a 
celebration that had the twofold merit of associating the national pastime 
with the traditional rural values that Fenimore Cooper's town embodies and 
also with the patriotic grandeur that the name Doubleday bears." Uh, 
actually not. Negatory on "pope" and "national" and "entire" and "most" and 
"embodies" and "Doubleday."

He worships Woody Allen and Charlie Rose in terms that would make Donald 
Trump cringe with embarrassment. He admires Warren Beatty, though he sees 
Beatty at a public event "among these rich and beautiful who, as always in 
America . . . form a masquerade of the living dead, each one more facelifted 
and mummified than the next, fierce, a little mutant-looking, inhuman, 
ultimately disappointing." L?vy is quite comfortable with phrases like "as 
always in America." Bombast comes naturally to him. Rain falls on the crowd 
gathered for the dedication of the Clinton library in Little Rock, and to 
L?vy, it signifies the demise of the Democratic Party. As always with French 
writers, L?vy is short on the facts, long on conclusions. He has a brief 
encounter with a young man outside of Montgomery, Ala. ("I listen to him 
tell me, as if he were justifying himself, about his attachment to this 
region"), and suddenly sees that the young man has "all the reflexes of 
Southern culture" and the "studied nonchalance . . . so characteristic of 
the region." With his X-ray vision, L?vy is able to reach tall conclusions 
with a single bound.

And good Lord, the childlike love of paradox - America is magnificent but 
mad, greedy and modest, drunk with materialism and religiosity, puritan and 
outrageous, facing toward the future and yet obsessed with its memories. 
Americans' party loyalty is "very strong and very pliable, extremely 
tenacious and in the end somewhat empty." Existential and yet devoid of all 
content and direction. The partner-swapping club is both "libertine" and 
"conventional," "depraved" and "proper." And so the reader is fascinated and 
exhausted by L?vy's tedious and original thinking: "A strong bond holds 
America together, but a minimal one. An attachment of great force, but not 
fiercely resolute. A place of high - extremely high - symbolic tension, but 
a neutral one, a nearly empty one." And what's with the flurries of 
rhetorical questions? Is this how the French talk or is it something they 
save for books about America? "What is a Republican? What distinguishes a 
Republican in the America of today from a Democrat?" L?vy writes, like a 
student padding out a term paper. "What does this experience tell us?" he 
writes about the Mall of America. "What do we learn about American 
civilization from this mausoleum of merchandise, this funeral accumulation 
of false goods and nondesires in this end-of-the-world setting? What is the 
effect on the Americans of today of this confined space, this aquarium, 
where only a semblance of life seems to subsist?" And what is one to make of 
the series of questions - 20 in a row - about Hillary Clinton, in which L?vy 
implies she is seeking the White House to erase the shame of the Lewinsky 
affair? Was L?vy aware of the game 20 Questions, commonly played on long car 
trips in America? Are we to read this passage as a metaphor of American 
restlessness? Does he understand how irritating this is? Does he? Do you? 
May I stop now?

America is changing, he concludes, but America will endure. "I still don't 
think there's reason to despair of this country. No matter how many 
derangements, dysfunctions, driftings there may be . . . no matter how 
fragmented the political and social space may be; despite this nihilist 
hypertrophy of petty antiquarian memory; despite this hyperobesity - 
increasingly less metaphorical - of the great social bodies that form the 
invisible edifice of the country; despite the utter misery of the ghettos . 
. . I can't manage to convince myself of the collapse, heralded in Europe, 
of the American model."

Thanks, pal. I don't imagine France collapsing anytime soon either. Thanks 
for coming. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. For your next book, 
tell us about those riots in France, the cars burning in the suburbs of 
Paris. What was that all about? Were fat people involved?

Garrison Keillor is the host and writer of "A Prairie Home Companion" and 
the author of 16 books. He is the editor, most recently, of an anthology 
titled "Good Poems for Hard Times."

Correction: Jan 29, 2006, Sunday:

A note on Page 1 of the Book Review today, with the review of "American 
Vertigo" by Bernard-Henri L?vy, misstates the translator's name. She is 
Charlotte Mandell, not Mendel.





From prather.js at verizon.net  Thu Feb  2 20:07:26 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Thu Feb  2 20:07:43 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Today's Must-read
In-Reply-To: <43E298FD.3010108@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <0IU3006V274FI5B0@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:42:53 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

>Thanks to Michelle Malkin's blog:
>
>http://commentarymagazine.com/production/files/schoenfeld0306advance.html

Heavy stuff, and right on the mark!

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Thu Feb  2 21:29:57 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dennis e. powell)
Date: Thu Feb  2 21:30:44 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] somebody on this list . . .
Message-ID: <200602022129.57224.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

. . . seems to have sent me an email attachment that scanned my hard 
drive and turned every instance of "b.s." to "earnings" and every 
instance of "shrieking harpy" to "wife."

i don't know what to do about it.

dep
-- 
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in
doing it.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Thu Feb  2 22:36:56 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Thu Feb  2 22:37:45 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Hamas = Nazi?
In-Reply-To: <06020214451365_2020A95D@operagost.com>
References: <06020214451365_2020A95D@operagost.com>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602021936g2f49f0e8s7ca1ab3776039f66@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/2/06, operagost@operagost.com <operagost@operagost.com> wrote:
> Does Palestine* 2006 = Germany 1933?
>
> * a fictional construct accorded with existence merely for convenience of this discussion.
As Michael Savage would say, "Hitlers in a headscarf."
Later,
Daniel

From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Fri Feb  3 07:47:19 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Fri Feb  3 07:47:52 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] somebody on this list . . .
In-Reply-To: <200602022129.57224.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <200602031247.k13ClKrN021451@oasis.novia.net>

On Thu, 2 Feb 2006 21:29:57 -0500, dennis e. powell wrote:

>. . . seems to have sent me an email attachment that scanned my hard 
>drive and turned every instance of "b.s." to "earnings" and every 
>instance of "shrieking harpy" to "wife."

>i don't know what to do about it.

File a bar complaint?

<g>




From prather.js at verizon.net  Fri Feb  3 08:07:05 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Fri Feb  3 08:07:53 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] somebody on this list . . .
In-Reply-To: <200602022129.57224.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <0IU4008AB4FT7RU0@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 21:29:57 -0500, dennis e. powell wrote:

>i don't know what to do about it.

Global search and replace????

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us  Fri Feb  3 13:33:52 2006
From: mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Fri Feb  3 13:35:59 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Kickback Mountain
Message-ID: <20060203183401.ICYW613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>



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From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Fri Feb  3 16:02:32 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Fri Feb  3 16:04:02 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: FW: "Al Qaeda Caller ID"
Message-ID: <20060203210242.KNLC613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================



  http://current.cf.huffingtonpost.com/


  http://current.cf.huffingtonpost.com/



===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================



From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Fri Feb  3 17:06:44 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Feb  3 17:35:02 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: FW: "Al Qaeda Caller ID"
In-Reply-To: <20060203210242.KNLC613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>
References: <20060203210242.KNLC613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>
Message-ID: <43E3D3F4.2050302@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Mike Riddle wrote:

>   http://current.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

Really, really funny, but I wonder how they are getting that up on her
domain?

Here's how!

host www.huffingtonpost.com
www.huffingtonpost.com is an alias for
www.huffingtonpost.com.edgesuite.net.
www.huffingtonpost.com.edgesuite.net is an alias for a495.g.akamai.net.
a495.g.akamai.net has address 84.53.144.15
a495.g.akamai.net has address 84.53.144.16

Sweet. The old bat doesn't even own huffingtonpost.com.


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From prather.js at verizon.net  Fri Feb  3 18:20:52 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Fri Feb  3 18:22:03 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Stella Awards
Message-ID: <0IU4008R9WUSSJK1@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================
>  
> Some reading to make you realize that just when you
> thought "you've seen it all and heard it all", there's
> always people out there to prove you wrong. I don't know
> if these are all true but if they are, help us all! 
>  
> Maricar Dupaya 
> City of Berkeley, Human Resources Dept. 
> Training and Organization Development 
> 510-981-6824, mdupaya@ci.berkeley.ca.us  
> 
> "No one can ruin your day without your permission." 
> 
>  
> 2005 Stella Awards! 
> 
> Time once again to review the winners of the Annual
> "Stella Awards." The Stella Awards are named after 81
> year-old Stella Liebeck who spilled hot coffee on herself
> and successfully sued McDonald's (in NM). That case
> inspired the Stella Awards for the most frivolous,
> ridiculous, successful lawsuits in the United States. 
> 
> Here are this year's winners: 
>  
> 5th Place (tie): 
> 
> Kathleen Robertson of Austin, Texas, was awarded $80,000.
> by a jury of her peers after breaking her ankle tripping
> over a toddler who was running inside a furniture store.
> The owners of the store were understandably surprised at
> the verdict, considering the misbehaving little toddler
> was Ms. Robertson's son. 
> 
> 5th Place (tie): 
> 19-year-old Carl Truman of Los Angeles won $74,000 and
> medical expenses when his neighbor ran over his hand with
> a Honda Accord. Mr. Truman apparently didn't notice there
> was someone at the wheel of the car when he was trying to
> steal his neighbor's hubcaps. 
>  
> 5th Place (tie): 
> 
> Terrence Dickson of Bristol, Pennsylvania, was leaving a
> house he had just finished robbing by way of the garage. 
>  He was not able to get the garage door to go up since
> the automatic door opener was malfunctioning. He couldn't
> re-enter the house because the door connecting the house
> and garage locked when he pulled it shut. The family was
> on vacation, and Mr. Dickson found himself locked in the
> garage for eight days. He subsisted on a case of Pepsi he
> found, and a large bag of dry dog food. He sued the
> homeowner's insurance claiming the situation caused him
> undue mental anguish. The jury agreed, to the tune of
> $500,000. In my opinion this is so outrageous that it
> should have been 2nd Place! 
>  
> 4th Place: 
> 
> Jerry Williams of Little Rock, Arkansas, was awarded
> $14,500. and medical expenses after being bitten on the
> buttocks by his next door neighbor's beagle. The beagle
> was on a chain in its owner's fenced yard. The award was
> less than sought because the jury felt the dog might have
> been just a little provoked at the time by Mr. Williams
> who had climbed over the fence into the yard and was
> shooting it repeatedly with a pellet gun. 
>  
> 3rd Place: 
> 
> A Philadelphia restaurant was ordered to pay Amber Carson
> of Lancaster, Pennsylvania, $113,500. after she slipped
> on a soft drink and broke her coccyx (tailbone). The
> beverage was on the floor because Ms. Carson had thrown
> it at her boyfriend 30 seconds earlier during an
> argument. 
>  
> 2nd Place: 
> 
> Kara Walton of Claymont, Delaware, successfully sued the
> owner of a night club in a neighboring city when she fell
> from the bathroom window to the floor and knocked out her
> two front teeth. This occurred while Ms. Walton was
> trying to sneak through the window in the ladies room to
> avoid paying the $3.50 cover charge. She was awarded
> $12,000 and dental expenses. 
>  
> 1st Place: 
> 
> This year's runaway winner was Mrs. Merv Grazinski of
> Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Mrs. Grazinski purchased a brand
> new 32-foot Winnebago motor home. On her first trip home,
> (from an OU football game), having driven onto the
> freeway, she set the cruise control at 70 mph and calmly
> left the driver's seat to go into the back & make herself
> a sandwich. Not surprisingly, the RV left the freeway,
> crashed and overturned. Mrs.Grazinski sued Winnebago for
> not advising her in the owner's manual that she couldn't
> actually do this. The jury awarded her $1,750,000. plus a
> new motor home. The company actually changed their
> manuals on the basis of this suit, just in case there
> were any other complete morons around.
> 


===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From prather.js at verizon.net  Fri Feb  3 19:05:53 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Fri Feb  3 19:07:04 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: SECRET SERVICE
Message-ID: <0IU400E87YXUY2I4@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>

I don't know where Bill got this, nor do I know who Dave Kulow
is, but these statements come across as how I would presume the
truth to be...

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


> Subject:  SECRET SERVICE
> Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:23:43 -0700
> 
> SECRET SERVICE   *PRESIDENTIAL OBSERVATIONS BY THE
> SECRET SERVICE 
> 
>Observations by Dave Kulow 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 


> 
> The elder Bush and current president Bush make it a point
> to thank and take care of the aircrews that fly them
> around. When the president flies, there are several
> planes that also go -- one carries the armored limo,
> another the security detail, plus usually a press
> aircraft. Both Bush's made it a point to stay home on
> holidays, so the Air Force and security people could have
> a day with their families. 
> 
> WHAT WAS: 
> 
> 
> Hillary Clinton was arrogant and orally abusive to her
> security detail. She forbade her daughter, Chelsea, from
> exchanging pleasantries with them Sometimes Chelsea,
> miffed at her mother's obvious conceit and mean
> spiritedness ignored her demands and exchanged
> pleasantries regardless, but never in her mother's
> presence. 
> 
> 
> 
> Chelsea really was a nice, kindhearted, and lovely young
> lady. The consensus opinion was that Chelsea loved her
> Mom but did not like her. Hillary Clinton was
> continuously rude and abrasive to those who were charged
> to protect her life. 
> 
> 
> Her security detail dutifully did their job, as
> professionals should, but they all loathed her and wanted
> to be on a different detail. Hillary Clinton was despised
> by the Secret Service as a whole. 
> 
> 
> Former President Bill Clinton was much more amiable than
> his wife Often the Secret Service would cringe at the
> verbal attacks Hillary would use against her husband. 
> 
> 
> 
> They were embarrassed for his sake by the manner and
> frequency in which she verbally insulted him, sometimes
> in the presence of the Secret Service, and sometimes
> behind closed doors. Even behind closed doors Hillary
> Clinton would scream and holler so loudly, that everyone
> could hear what she was saying. 
> 
> 
> Many felt sorry for President Clinton and most wondered
> why he tolerated it instead of just divorcing his "attack
> dog" wife. It was clear that the Clinton's neither liked
> nor respected each other and this was true long before
> the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Theirs was genuinely a
> "marriage of convenience." 
> 
> 
> Chelsea was much closer to her father than she was to her
> mother, even after the Lewinsky scandal, which hurt her
> gravely. 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Clinton did in fact have charisma, and occasionally
> would smile at or shake hands with his security detail.
> Still, he always displayed an obvious air of superiority,
> believed him to be disingenuous, false, and that he did
> nothing without a motive that in some way would enhance
> his image and political career. He was polite, but not
> kind. 
> 
> 
> They did not particularly like him and nobody trusted
> him. 
> 
> WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN: 
> 
> 
> Al Gore was the male version of Hillary Clinton. They
> were friendlier toward each other than either of them was
> towards former President Clinton. They were not intimate,
> so please don't read that in. They were very close in a
> political way. 
> 
> 
> 
> Tipper Gore was generally nice and pleasant. She
> initially liked Hillary but soon after the election she
> had her "pegged" and no longer liked her or associated
> with her except for events that were politically
> obligatory. 
> 
> 
> 
> Al Gore was far more left wing than Bill Clinton was. Al
> Gore resented Bill Clinton and thought he was too
> "centrist." He despised all Republicans. His hatred was
> bitter and this was long before he announced for the
> Presidency. This hatred was something that he and Hillary
> had in common. 
> 
> 
> 
> They often said as much, even in the presence of their
> security detail. Neither of them trusted Bill Clinton
> and, the Secret Service opined, neither of them even
> liked Bill Clinton. Bill Clinton did have some good
> qualities, whereas Al Gore and Hillary had none, in the
> view of their security details. Al Gore, like Hillary,
> was very rude and arrogant toward his security detail. He
> was extremely unappreciative. He would not hesitate to
> scold them in the presence of their peers for minor
> details over which they had no control. Al Gore also
> looked down on them, as they finally observed and learned
> with certainty on one occasion. Al got angry at his
> offspring and pointed at his detail and said, "Do you
> want to grow up and be like them?" Word of this insult by
> the former Vice-president quickly spread and he became as
> disliked by the Secret Service as Hillary. 
> 
> 
> Most of them prayed Al Gore would not be elected
> President, and they really did have private celebrations
> in a few of their homes after President Bush won. This
> was not necessarily to celebrate President Bush's
> election, but to celebrate Al Gore's defeat. 
> 
> WHAT IS: 
> 
> 
> Everyone in the Secret Service wants to be on First Lady
> Laura Bush's detail. Without exception, they concede that
> she is perhaps the nicest and most kind person they have
> ever had the privilege of serving. Where Hillary patently
> refused to allow her picture to be taken with her
> security detail, Laura Bush doesn't even have to be
> asked, she offers. She doesn't just shake their hand and
> say, "Thank you." 
> 
> 
> Very often, she will give members of her detail a
> kindhearted hug to express her appreciation. There is
> nothing false about her. This is her genuine nature. Her
> security detail considers her a "breath of fresh air."
> They joke that comparing Laura Bush with Hillary Clinton
> is like comparing "Mother Teresa" with the "Wicked Witch
> of the North. 
> 
> 
> "Likewise, the Secret Service considers President Bush to
> be a gem of a man to work for. He always treats them with
> genuine respect and he always trusts and listens to their
> expert advice. They really like the Crawford, Texas
> detail. Every time the president goes to Crawford, he has
> a Bar-B-Q for his security detail and he helps serve
> their meals. He sits with them, eats with them, and talks
> with them. He knows each of them by their first name, and
> calls them by their first name as a show of affection. He
> always asks about their family, the names of which he
> always remembers. They believe that he is deeply and
> genuinely appreciative of their service. They could not
> like, love, or respect anyone more than President Bush. 
> 
> 
> Most of them did not know they would feel this way, until
> they had an opportunity to work for him and learn that
> his manner was genuine and consistent. It has never
> changed since he began his Presidency. He always treats
> them with the utmost respect, kindness, and compassion. 
> 
> 

===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Fri Feb  3 19:58:27 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dennis e. powell)
Date: Fri Feb  3 19:59:05 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: SECRET SERVICE
In-Reply-To: <0IU400E87YXUY2I4@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IU400E87YXUY2I4@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602031958.27568.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Jerry Prather:
| nor do I know who Dave Kulow is

http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=%22dave+kulow%22&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

-- 
I do not ask them to assume the worth of my creed or any creed;
and I could wish they did not so often ask me to assume the worth
of their worthless, poisonous plutocratic modern society.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Fri Feb  3 20:58:40 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Feb  3 20:59:06 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] And by the way...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0602032057170.11119@trollboy.legomenon.org>

Where does our State Department get off issuing that mealymouthed 
statement about "tolerance?" What? We don't have the courage -- all of a 
sudden -- that the Europeans are now displaying.

-- 
Bob (ZoidBoy) Bernstein
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Fri Feb  3 21:59:28 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Fri Feb  3 22:42:07 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] And by the way...
Message-ID: <20060204025843.ZQAR17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

Next time some one talks about Tollerance and Islam please  explain their stance to my dear Mariam who risked getting lynched on her way to school in Egypt because she is a Copt.
Mulism did not show her much tollerance.

 
> From: Bob Bernstein <zoidberg@legomenon.org>
> Date: 2006/02/03 Fri PM 08:58:40 EST
> To: os2 <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] And by the way...
> 
> Where does our State Department get off issuing that mealymouthed 
> statement about "tolerance?" What? We don't have the courage -- all of a 
> sudden -- that the Europeans are now displaying.
> 
> -- 
> Bob (ZoidBoy) Bernstein
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sat Feb  4 01:39:40 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca)
Date: Sat Feb  4 01:41:15 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Kickback Mountain
In-Reply-To: <20060203183401.ICYW613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>
References: <20060203183401.ICYW613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>
Message-ID: <200602032239.40721.spmaiorca@cox.net>

On Friday 03 February 2006 10:33 am, Mike Riddle wrote:
Don't forget Harry "it's not a bribe" Ried.
From prather.js at verizon.net  Sat Feb  4 09:20:41 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sat Feb  4 09:21:15 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Is the Far Left getting tired of Hillary?
Message-ID: <0IU6001E12IIQXA6@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>

Interesting commentary at

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1570444/posts

but please spare us another run by either Kerry or Gore!

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb  5 08:57:14 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dennis e. powell)
Date: Sun Feb  5 08:57:36 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] today's steyn -- right as usual
Message-ID: <200602050857.14241.dep@drippingwithirony.com>


'Sensitivity' can have brutal consequences 

February 5, 2006

BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST 
 
	

I long ago lost count of the number of times I've switched on the TV and 
seen crazy guys jumping up and down in the street, torching the Stars 
and Stripes and yelling ''Death to the Great Satan!'' Or torching the 
Union Jack and yelling ''Death to the Original If Now Somewhat 
Arthritic And Semi-Retired Satan!'' But I never thought I'd switch on 
the TV and see the excitable young lads jumping up and down in Jakarta, 
Lahore, Aden, Hebron, etc., etc., torching the flag of Denmark.

Denmark! Even if you were overcome with a sudden urge to burn the Danish 
flag, where do you get one in a hurry in Gaza? Well, OK, that's easy: 
the nearest European Union Humanitarian Aid and Intifada-Funding Branch 
Office. But where do you get one in an obscure town on the Punjabi 
plain on a Thursday afternoon? If I had a sudden yen to burn the Yemeni 
or Sudanese flag on my village green, I haven't a clue how I'd get hold 
of one in this part of New Hampshire. Say what you like about the 
Islamic world, but they show tremendous initiative and energy and 
inventiveness, at least when it comes to threatening death to the 
infidels every 48 hours for one perceived offense or another. If only 
it could be channeled into, say, a small software company, what an 
economy they'd have.

Meanwhile, back in Copenhagen, the Danes are a little bewildered to find 
that this time it's plucky little Denmark who's caught the eye of the 
nutters. Last year, a newspaper called Jyllands-Posten published 
several cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed, whose physical representation 
in art is forbidden by Islam. The cartoons aren't particularly good and 
they were intended to be provocative. But they had a serious point. 
Before coming to that, we should note that in the Western world 
"artists" "provoke" with the same numbing regularity as young Muslim 
men light up other countries' flags. When Tony-winning author Terence 
McNally writes a Broadway play in which Jesus has gay sex with Judas, 
the New York Times and Co. rush to garland him with praise for how 
"brave" and "challenging" he is. The rule for "brave" "transgressive" 
"artists" is a simple one: If you're going to be provocative, it's best 
to do it with people who can't be provoked.

Thus, NBC is celebrating Easter this year with a special edition of the 
gay sitcom "Will & Grace," in which a Christian conservative 
cooking-show host, played by the popular singing slattern Britney 
Spears, offers seasonal recipes -- "Cruci-fixin's." On the other hand, 
the same network, in its coverage of the global riots over the Danish 
cartoons, has declined to show any of the offending artwork out of 
"respect" for the Muslim faith.

Which means out of respect for their ability to locate the executive 
vice president's home in the suburbs and firebomb his garage.

Jyllands-Posten wasn't being offensive for the sake of it. They had a 
serious point -- or, at any rate, a more serious one than Britney 
Spears or Terence McNally. The cartoons accompanied a piece about the 
dangers of "self-censorship" -- i.e., a climate in which there's no 
explicit law forbidding you from addressing the more, er, lively 
aspects of Islam but nonetheless everyone feels it's better not to.

That's the question the Danish newspaper was testing: the weakness of 
free societies in the face of intimidation by militant Islam.

One day, years from now, as archaeologists sift through the ruins of an 
ancient civilization for clues to its downfall, they'll marvel at how 
easy it all was. You don't need to fly jets into skyscrapers and kill 
thousands of people. As a matter of fact, that's a bad strategy, 
because even the wimpiest state will feel obliged to respond. But if 
you frame the issue in terms of multicultural "sensitivity," the wimp 
state will bend over backward to give you everything you want -- 
including, eventually, the keys to those skyscrapers. Thus, Jack Straw, 
the British foreign secretary, hailed the "sensitivity" of Fleet Street 
in not reprinting the offending cartoons. 

No doubt he's similarly impressed by the "sensitivity" of Anne Owers, 
Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons, for prohibiting the flying of 
the English national flag in English prisons on the grounds that it 
shows the cross of St. George, which was used by the Crusaders and thus 
is offensive to Muslims. And no doubt he's impressed by the 
"sensitivity" of Burger King, which withdrew its ice cream cones from 
its British menus because Rashad Akhtar of High Wycombe complained that 
the creamy swirl shown on the lid looked like the word "Allah" in 
Arabic script. I don't know which sura in the Koran says don't forget, 
folks, it's not just physical representations of God or the Prophet but 
also chocolate ice cream squiggly representations of the name, but 
ixnay on both just to be "sensitive." 

And doubtless the British foreign secretary also appreciates the 
"sensitivity" of the owner of France-Soir, who fired his editor for 
republishing the Danish cartoons. And the "sensitivity" of the Dutch 
film director Albert Ter Heerdt, who canceled the sequel to his hit 
multicultural comedy ''Shouf Shouf Habibi!'' on the grounds that "I 
don't want a knife in my chest" -- which is what happened to the last 
Dutch film director to make a movie about Islam: Theo van Gogh, on 
whose ''right to dissent'' all those Hollywood blowhards are strangely 
silent. Perhaps they're just being "sensitive,'' too.

And perhaps the British foreign secretary also admires the "sensitivity" 
of those Dutch public figures who once spoke out against the 
intimidatory aspects of Islam and have now opted for diplomatic silence 
and life under 24-hour armed guard. And maybe he even admires the 
"sensitivity" of the increasing numbers of Dutch people who dislike the 
pervasive fear and tension in certain parts of the Netherlands and so 
have emigrated to Canada and New Zealand.

Very few societies are genuinely multicultural. Most are bicultural: On 
the one hand, there are folks who are black, white, gay, straight, 
pre-op transsexual, Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, worshippers of 
global-warming doom-mongers, and they rub along as best they can. And 
on the other hand are folks who do not accept the give-and-take, the 
rough-and-tumble of a "diverse" "tolerant" society, and, when one 
gently raises the matter of their intolerance, they threaten to kill 
you, which makes the question somewhat moot. 

One day the British foreign secretary will wake up and discover that, in 
practice, there's very little difference between living under 
Exquisitely Refined Multicultural Sensitivity and Sharia. As a famously 
sensitive Dane once put it, "To be or not to be, that is the question."

dep
-- 
These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every
creed except his own.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sun Feb  5 13:29:50 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sun Feb  5 13:31:42 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: The Globe "for sports?"]
Message-ID: <43E6441E.5050704@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Seems the Globe wrapped up several bundles of the paper to be dropped
off at street corners for stores in printouts of their credit card
customers, avec credit card numbers.

-=snip=-

Out in left field? Globe?s got your number(s)
By Howie Carr

Boston Herald Columnist
Sunday, February 5, 2006

Despite the high risk of having your good name and credit besmirched,
you may be one of the vanishing breed who enjoys having The Boston
Globe home-delivered. Ask yourself these questions:

     Do you have a trust fund?

     Have you seen ?Brokeback Mountain? - more than once?

     Do you refuse to peel the Kerry-Edwards sticker off your car?

     Do you always say ?Happy holidays??

     Did you go to a Democratic caucus yesterday to vote for Deval
Patrick?

    Answering yes to any of the above questions indicates that you may
well find the Globe almost as indispensable to daily life as Michael
Moore?s Web site. But if your answers were no, no, no, no and no, it?s
time you joined the fastest-growing demographic group in Massachusetts
- ex-Globe subscribers.

    Just last Wednesday, 200 subscribers to the fake-but-accurate
journal wised up and said, as one, ?Pound sand, Pinch.?

    Q. What do the carpetbaggers of Morrissey Boulevard call a day on
which 200 readers cancel their subscriptions?

    A. A good day.

    Bad enough their daily drumbeat for gay ?marriage,? illegal aliens
and higher taxes. Now the out-of-state drifters who mismanage the
boring broadsheet have literally put the names of more than 200,000
loyal subscribers and their credit-card numbers out on the street.

    The irony is, the Globe?s parent company is that floundering
dinosaur corporation known as The New York Times. The Beautiful People
of 42nd Street are stamping their Birkenstocks and pouting because the
Bush administration has engaged in ?domestic spying.? The GOP has been
?eavesdropping? on what Jayson Blair?s colleagues assure us are
?Americans? who just happen to be in contact with al-Qaeda operatives
overseas.

    For this, the Old Pink Lady wants Bush impeached.

    But when the Times? blow-in straw bosses flat-out violate the
privacy rights of more than 200,000 Americans, well, that?s just an
unfortunate mistake. Just monitor your credit charges very carefully
and await instructions from Massa Sulzberger, which will arrive via
snail mail.

    In spite of everything, the Globe retains a dwindling core of
Kool-Aid constituents, and perhaps you?re among them.

     Are you a vegan?

     Do you vote for every Prop 2 ? override because it?s an
?investment in the future? and it?s ?for the children??

     Do you enjoy seeing stills on the metro page that were obviously
taken from porn movies, with captions asserting that the actors are
actually American soldiers raping Iraqi women?

     Are you backing Sen. Jarrett Barrios for Middlesex DA?

     Do you think Steve Lynch has ?grown? in office?

     Do you prefer reading fiction to nonfiction?

    I joined the stampede of ex-subscribers many years ago. I?m a
white male heterosexual Irish Catholic who was born and raised in New
England and went to a state college. If I had any more strikes against
me, my name would be Steve Murphy.

    I hear people say, well, I only get it for the sports page. I got
news for you: Will McDonough ain?t walking through that door, and when
was the last time Peter Gammons wrote for the daily? If you need
endless Red Sox worship, there are four or five radio and TV stations
dedicated to 24/7 jock-sniffing.

    Go ahead, Globe, mail me another free-subscription offer. I?ll
send back your post-paid envelope, empty. Another 39 cents off the
bottom line of the PC Police. Every little bit helps.

-=snip=-


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sun Feb  5 12:42:29 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Sun Feb  5 14:26:45 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] today's steyn -- right as usual
Message-ID: <20060205174146.QAZL17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

good editorial and I wish the folks screaming about how we need to be sensitive would understand there is no such talk on the other side. Next person who talks about sensitivty towards Muslims do me a favor and speak to a mideastern Christan.
> 
> From: "dennis e. powell" <dep@drippingwithirony.com>
> Date: 2006/02/05 Sun AM 08:57:14 EST
> To: "OS/2 et alia" <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] today's steyn -- right as usual
> 
> 
> 'Sensitivity' can have brutal consequences 
> 
> February 5, 2006
> 
> BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST 
>  
> 	
> 
> I long ago lost count of the number of times I've switched on the TV and 
> seen crazy guys jumping up and down in the street, torching the Stars 
> and Stripes and yelling ''Death to the Great Satan!'' Or torching the 
> Union Jack and yelling ''Death to the Original If Now Somewhat 
> Arthritic And Semi-Retired Satan!'' But I never thought I'd switch on 
> the TV and see the excitable young lads jumping up and down in Jakarta, 
> Lahore, Aden, Hebron, etc., etc., torching the flag of Denmark.
> 
> Denmark! Even if you were overcome with a sudden urge to burn the Danish 
> flag, where do you get one in a hurry in Gaza? Well, OK, that's easy: 
> the nearest European Union Humanitarian Aid and Intifada-Funding Branch 
> Office. But where do you get one in an obscure town on the Punjabi 
> plain on a Thursday afternoon? If I had a sudden yen to burn the Yemeni 
> or Sudanese flag on my village green, I haven't a clue how I'd get hold 
> of one in this part of New Hampshire. Say what you like about the 
> Islamic world, but they show tremendous initiative and energy and 
> inventiveness, at least when it comes to threatening death to the 
> infidels every 48 hours for one perceived offense or another. If only 
> it could be channeled into, say, a small software company, what an 
> economy they'd have.
> 
> Meanwhile, back in Copenhagen, the Danes are a little bewildered to find 
> that this time it's plucky little Denmark who's caught the eye of the 
> nutters. Last year, a newspaper called Jyllands-Posten published 
> several cartoons of the Prophet Muhammed, whose physical representation 
> in art is forbidden by Islam. The cartoons aren't particularly good and 
> they were intended to be provocative. But they had a serious point. 
> Before coming to that, we should note that in the Western world 
> "artists" "provoke" with the same numbing regularity as young Muslim 
> men light up other countries' flags. When Tony-winning author Terence 
> McNally writes a Broadway play in which Jesus has gay sex with Judas, 
> the New York Times and Co. rush to garland him with praise for how 
> "brave" and "challenging" he is. The rule for "brave" "transgressive" 
> "artists" is a simple one: If you're going to be provocative, it's best 
> to do it with people who can't be provoked.
> 
> Thus, NBC is celebrating Easter this year with a special edition of the 
> gay sitcom "Will & Grace," in which a Christian conservative 
> cooking-show host, played by the popular singing slattern Britney 
> Spears, offers seasonal recipes -- "Cruci-fixin's." On the other hand, 
> the same network, in its coverage of the global riots over the Danish 
> cartoons, has declined to show any of the offending artwork out of 
> "respect" for the Muslim faith.
> 
> Which means out of respect for their ability to locate the executive 
> vice president's home in the suburbs and firebomb his garage.
> 
> Jyllands-Posten wasn't being offensive for the sake of it. They had a 
> serious point -- or, at any rate, a more serious one than Britney 
> Spears or Terence McNally. The cartoons accompanied a piece about the 
> dangers of "self-censorship" -- i.e., a climate in which there's no 
> explicit law forbidding you from addressing the more, er, lively 
> aspects of Islam but nonetheless everyone feels it's better not to.
> 
> That's the question the Danish newspaper was testing: the weakness of 
> free societies in the face of intimidation by militant Islam.
> 
> One day, years from now, as archaeologists sift through the ruins of an 
> ancient civilization for clues to its downfall, they'll marvel at how 
> easy it all was. You don't need to fly jets into skyscrapers and kill 
> thousands of people. As a matter of fact, that's a bad strategy, 
> because even the wimpiest state will feel obliged to respond. But if 
> you frame the issue in terms of multicultural "sensitivity," the wimp 
> state will bend over backward to give you everything you want -- 
> including, eventually, the keys to those skyscrapers. Thus, Jack Straw, 
> the British foreign secretary, hailed the "sensitivity" of Fleet Street 
> in not reprinting the offending cartoons. 
> 
> No doubt he's similarly impressed by the "sensitivity" of Anne Owers, 
> Her Majesty's Chief Inspector of Prisons, for prohibiting the flying of 
> the English national flag in English prisons on the grounds that it 
> shows the cross of St. George, which was used by the Crusaders and thus 
> is offensive to Muslims. And no doubt he's impressed by the 
> "sensitivity" of Burger King, which withdrew its ice cream cones from 
> its British menus because Rashad Akhtar of High Wycombe complained that 
> the creamy swirl shown on the lid looked like the word "Allah" in 
> Arabic script. I don't know which sura in the Koran says don't forget, 
> folks, it's not just physical representations of God or the Prophet but 
> also chocolate ice cream squiggly representations of the name, but 
> ixnay on both just to be "sensitive." 
> 
> And doubtless the British foreign secretary also appreciates the 
> "sensitivity" of the owner of France-Soir, who fired his editor for 
> republishing the Danish cartoons. And the "sensitivity" of the Dutch 
> film director Albert Ter Heerdt, who canceled the sequel to his hit 
> multicultural comedy ''Shouf Shouf Habibi!'' on the grounds that "I 
> don't want a knife in my chest" -- which is what happened to the last 
> Dutch film director to make a movie about Islam: Theo van Gogh, on 
> whose ''right to dissent'' all those Hollywood blowhards are strangely 
> silent. Perhaps they're just being "sensitive,'' too.
> 
> And perhaps the British foreign secretary also admires the "sensitivity" 
> of those Dutch public figures who once spoke out against the 
> intimidatory aspects of Islam and have now opted for diplomatic silence 
> and life under 24-hour armed guard. And maybe he even admires the 
> "sensitivity" of the increasing numbers of Dutch people who dislike the 
> pervasive fear and tension in certain parts of the Netherlands and so 
> have emigrated to Canada and New Zealand.
> 
> Very few societies are genuinely multicultural. Most are bicultural: On 
> the one hand, there are folks who are black, white, gay, straight, 
> pre-op transsexual, Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, worshippers of 
> global-warming doom-mongers, and they rub along as best they can. And 
> on the other hand are folks who do not accept the give-and-take, the 
> rough-and-tumble of a "diverse" "tolerant" society, and, when one 
> gently raises the matter of their intolerance, they threaten to kill 
> you, which makes the question somewhat moot. 
> 
> One day the British foreign secretary will wake up and discover that, in 
> practice, there's very little difference between living under 
> Exquisitely Refined Multicultural Sensitivity and Sharia. As a famously 
> sensitive Dane once put it, "To be or not to be, that is the question."
> 
> dep
> -- 
> These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every
> creed except his own.
> 		-- G. K. Chesterton
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb  5 14:46:28 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dennis e. powell)
Date: Sun Feb  5 14:47:43 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Politics Explained
Message-ID: <200602051446.28939.dep@drippingwithirony.com>


A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so
 many others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal
 Democrat, and was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican,
 a feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had
 participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt
 that her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep
 what he thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher
 taxes on the rich and the addition of more government welfare
 programs.  The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors
 had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father.

He responded by asking how she was doing in school. Taken aback, she
answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that
it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very
 difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no
 time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn't even
 have time for a boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends
 because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"
She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy
classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so
popular on campus, college for her is a blast. She's always invited to
all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes
because she's too hung over."

Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's
office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your
friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and
certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired
back, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades!
I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done
 next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail
 off!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the
Republican Party.

-- 
Love means loving the unlovable - or it is no virtue at all.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From mike at mikeriddle.com  Sun Feb  5 15:42:12 2006
From: mike at mikeriddle.com (Mike Riddle)
Date: Sun Feb  5 15:47:44 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] LAT Editorial - Tapping into AT&T
Message-ID: <20060205204513.IJQM8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-nsa5feb05,0,4247173.story?coll=la-home-oped
 From the Los Angeles Times
EDITORIALS
Tapping into AT&T

February 5, 2006

THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION has spent much of the last few weeks trying 
to explain that to protect American democracy, it must sometimes spy 
on American citizens. Now the debate over its warrantless domestic 
spying program has reached out to touch one of the iconic names of 
American capitalism: Ma Bell.

The Electronic Frontier Foundation, an advocacy group for civil 
liberties in cyberspace, sued AT&T last week, alleging that the 
company violated its duty to keep phone records and conversations 
private. The suit asserts that AT&T not only allowed the National 
Security Agency to intercept phone calls without a warrant as part of 
its program to monitor the calls of U.S. residents with suspected 
ties to terrorists overseas, but it also enabled government agents to 
sift through the company's vast database of calling records in search 
of suspicious activity.

The lawsuit takes an indirect route to the foundation's ultimate 
goal, which is to force investigators to get a court's approval 
before spying on U.S. residents. At Senate hearings on the NSA 
program, which begin Monday, members of the Judiciary Committee may 
want to borrow from the foundation's strategy and see what they can 
learn not just from government officials but from telecommunications 
executives, who cannot hide behind executive privilege.

Ma Bell is certainly an inviting target. Outside of the NSA, no one 
knows more about the domestic surveillance program than the phone 
companies, the largest of which is AT&T. And the Bush administration 
has been extremely tight-lipped about the program's details. As a 
result, it is impossible to judge whether the program has focused 
exclusively on people chatting with Al Qaeda, as President Bush likes 
to say, or a much larger group of Americans who just happen to make 
or receive international calls.

AT&T, which isn't commenting on the suit, may have felt it had no 
choice but to comply with the NSA's requests. Federal law requires 
telephone companies to cooperate with law enforcement demands if they 
are supported by a court order or, in emergencies, certification from 
the U.S. attorney general that no court order is necessary. The 
surveillance program was almost certainly backed by just such a 
certification, and that could stop the lawsuit in its tracks.

Ideally, the lawsuit will stop AT&T from cooperating in the NSA 
program, or at least prod it to put up more resistance. There is no 
need or excuse for warrantless surveillance in America, especially 
given the accelerated procedures Congress established for obtaining 
such warrants. Indeed, the court that Congress created with the 
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is notoriously accommodating to 
such requests. In addition, the administration's assertion that it 
can conduct whatever spying operation it pleases during the 
unrelenting war on terrorism is an affront to Americans' privacy and 
due-process rights.

More practically, the lawsuit may also reveal how the spying program 
works and what types of information it collects. But the 
administration views such details as sensitive national security 
secrets, and it is likely the government will try to have the lawsuit 
thrown out before any such disclosures are made.

In the mid-1970s, the late Sen. Frank Church, an Idaho Democrat, led 
a Senate investigation into domestic spying and other abuses of power 
by the NSA and federal agencies. By interviewing executives from 
telecommunications companies, his investigators gained critical 
details about the government's snooping. Members of the Senate 
Judiciary Committee could learn from the Church committee's boldness.




===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


From sjkleinsr at cox.net  Sun Feb  5 17:11:49 2006
From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.)
Date: Sun Feb  5 17:12:44 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Message to the World
Message-ID: <20060205221148.TGKQ5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>

If I had the power, the following message would go out to the world:

Given recent events, the United States has decided on the following course of action. For Americans and those present in the United States who wish to peacefully march in demonstration of support for a cause, we support the right of peaceful assembly. As soon as your demonstration becomes a destructive event, you will be gunned down in the streets. This includes rioting, looting, stone and bottle throwing and the destruction of our flag, which is now considered sacred.

For residents of other countries, the following applies. We support your right to peaceful assembly, but will not interfere with your governments handling of the situation. As soon as you attempt to destroy the American flag, now considered sacred, you will be gunned down in the street. Attacks on American Counsulates, Embassies or interests will cause you to be gunned down in the streets. A team will be dispatched to assist with removal of debris following our necessary action.

We expect our actions to be considered with the same sensitivity now extended to persons who create havoc and destruction in support of their beliefs.

Thank you!!

Stan Klein, Sr.
Homeless, live in a truck
Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black

From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 17:24:07 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Sun Feb  5 17:26:45 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] More political corruption
Message-ID: <46d72e000602051424l2816cd3enc03cc5b71aca6bda@mail.gmail.com>

<http://view.e.newsmax.com/?ffcb10-fe8b177673600c7871-fe0215707664007a71137375-ff2c1d70746d>
Later,
Daniel

From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 17:36:00 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Sun Feb  5 17:36:46 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Message to the World
In-Reply-To: <20060205221148.TGKQ5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@172.18.53.8>
References: <20060205221148.TGKQ5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@172.18.53.8>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602051436w67c2884fxe1e8fe71133217ab@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/06, Stan Klein, Sr. <sjkleinsr@cox.net> wrote:
> If I had the power, the following message would go out to the world:
>
> Given recent events, the United States has decided on the following course of action. For Americans and those present in the United States who wish to peacefully march in demonstration of support for a cause, we support the right of peaceful assembly. As soon as your demonstration becomes a destructive event, you will be gunned down in the streets. This includes rioting, looting, stone and bottle throwing and the destruction of our flag, which is now considered sacred.
>
> For residents of other countries, the following applies. We support your right to peaceful assembly, but will not interfere with your governments handling of the situation. As soon as you attempt to destroy the American flag, now considered sacred, you will be gunned down in the street. Attacks on American Counsulates, Embassies or interests will cause you to be gunned down in the streets. A team will be dispatched to assist with removal of debris following our necessary action.
>
> We expect our actions to be considered with the same sensitivity now extended to persons who create havoc and destruction in support of their beliefs.
>
> Thank you!!
>
> Stan Klein, Sr.
> Homeless, live in a truck
> Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black
>
I must say, I like it!!
Daniel

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Sun Feb  5 18:22:59 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sun Feb  5 18:24:45 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Message to the World
In-Reply-To: <20060205221148.TGKQ5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>
References: <20060205221148.TGKQ5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0602051816360.14413@trollboy.legomenon.org>

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006, Stan Klein, Sr. wrote:

> If I had the power, the following message would go out to the world:

Wonderful! I shall mail a copy to Linc Chafee first thing tomorrow!

I suggest one amendment:

To whom it may concern. Effective immediately for all U.S. sovereign 
territories: all environmental constrictions on the exploration, drilling, 
pumping, shipment and refining of petroleum products are herewith 
suspended until further notice. Have a nice day.


-- 
Bob (ZoidBoy) Bernstein
From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 18:26:56 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Sun Feb  5 18:28:45 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Message to the World
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0602051816360.14413@trollboy.legomenon.org>
References: <20060205221148.TGKQ5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@172.18.53.8>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0602051816360.14413@trollboy.legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602051526i7d337e77y9b563b372e71c133@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/06, Bob Bernstein <zoidberg@legomenon.org> wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Feb 2006, Stan Klein, Sr. wrote:
>
> > If I had the power, the following message would go out to the world:
>
> Wonderful! I shall mail a copy to Linc Chafee first thing tomorrow!
>
> I suggest one amendment:
>
> To whom it may concern. Effective immediately for all U.S. sovereign
> territories: all environmental constrictions on the exploration, drilling,
> pumping, shipment and refining of petroleum products are herewith
> suspended until further notice. Have a nice day.
>
Love the amendment.
Daniel

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Sun Feb  5 18:49:55 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sun Feb  5 18:52:45 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Message to the World
In-Reply-To: <46d72e000602051526i7d337e77y9b563b372e71c133@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20060205221148.TGKQ5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@172.18.53.8>
	<Pine.LNX.4.63.0602051816360.14413@trollboy.legomenon.org>
	<46d72e000602051526i7d337e77y9b563b372e71c133@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0602051848590.14413@trollboy.legomenon.org>

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006, Daniel Kruse wrote:

> Love the amendment.

Thank you sir.

I felt the 'Have a nice day.' sorta struck just the right note. <g>


-- 
Bob (ZoidBoy) Bernstein
From sjkleinsr at cox.net  Sun Feb  5 19:53:11 2006
From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.)
Date: Sun Feb  5 21:03:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Message to the World
Message-ID: <20060206005313.SVME8484.centrmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>

Makes good sense to me. Let er rip!!!
> 
> From: Bob Bernstein <zoidberg@legomenon.org>
> Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Message to the World
> 
> On Sun, 5 Feb 2006, Stan Klein, Sr. wrote:
> 
> > If I had the power, the following message would go out to the world:
> 
> Wonderful! I shall mail a copy to Linc Chafee first thing tomorrow!
> 
> I suggest one amendment:
> 
> To whom it may concern. Effective immediately for all U.S. sovereign 
> territories: all environmental constrictions on the exploration, drilling, 
> pumping, shipment and refining of petroleum products are herewith 
> suspended until further notice. Have a nice day.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bob (ZoidBoy) Bernstein
> 

Stan Klein, Sr.
Homeless, live in a truck
Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sun Feb  5 21:06:43 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sun Feb  5 21:07:47 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Yet another must-read
Message-ID: <43E6AF33.5040107@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Savage just mentioned this article, and here it is!

-=snip=-

Feb 3, 2006
	
SPEAKING FREELY
Iran and the jaws of a trap
By Paul Levian

Judging from the rather frantic behind-the-scenes efforts of Russia
and China in Iran, they seem to appreciate that the Iranian leadership
is in for a big and probably deadly surprise. The Bush administration
has not only handled its Iran dossier much more skillfully than Iraq,
but also managed to set up Iran for a war it can neither win nor fight
to a draw.

If the Iranian leaders think they can deter an attack because the US
is bogged down in Iraq they are already between the jaws of a well-set
trap. Though a Western war against Iran will be a big geopolitical
defeat for Russia and China, they cannot but resign themselves to this
outcome if they are unable to convince the Iranians to accept the
Russian proposal - ie uranium enrichment in Russia.

The Russians saw the writing on the wall when France, Germany and
Britain began to march in lockstep with the United States. In
particular, the widely but wrongly discounted nuclear belligerence of
President Jacques Chirac last month implied that France was ready to
accept the US use of nuclear weapons in a war against Iran if they saw
fit to do so.

The Iranian leadership's obvious confidence in its ability to deter
the US, Britain and Israel seems to rest on mainly four assumptions.
Iran is militarily much stronger than Iraq, much larger, its terrain
more difficult, its society more cohesive - thus more difficult to
defeat, to occupy and to pacify. In addition, President Mahmud
Ahmadinejad seems to take particular comfort from the widely
anticipated wave of popular outrage and anti-Western attacks in the
wider Middle East if Iran should be attacked.

Moreover, the economic costs of a war against Iran in terms of the
price of oil and the interruption of the Iranian supply would propel
the world economy into a tailspin. And finally, Iranian leaders seem
to accept at face value the US moans over its overstretched military
forces and the demoralization of US forces in Iraq.

Certainly, Iranian misconceptions are helped mightily by the defeatism
of the Western debate about such a war. "No good options" has become
something like the consensus view: an airborne and special forces
"surgical strike" (as well as a massive attack) against the Iranian
nuclear industry and military targets could at best delay its nuclear
program and will be followed by retaliation in Iraq, Lebanon etc; a
ground attack is out of the question because most of deployable US
ground forces are desperately busy in Iraq.

If such things could be planned, one might be persuaded to consider
this debate as an aspect of strategic deception. In fact, the US and
British forces in Iraq and in the Persian Gulf as well as the forces
in Afghanistan are quite able to redeploy on short notice, for example
during the days of an initial air campaign against Iran for
large-scale operations against the remaining Iranian forces and can be
reinforced during the war. The US military infrastructure at the
borders of Iran has a very substantial capability to deal with surge
requirements.

The somewhat standard scenario for this war - as indicated by Chinese
and Russian war games - has the following features:

An initial Israeli air attack against some Iranian nuclear targets,
command and control targets and Shahab missile sites. Iran retaliates
with its remaining missiles, tries to close the Gulf, attacks US naval
assets and American and British forces in Iraq. If Iranian missiles
have chemical warheads (in fact or presumed), the US will immediately
use nuclear weapons to destroy the Iranian military and industrial
infrastructure. If not, an air campaign of up to two weeks will
prepare the ground campaign for the occupation of the Iranian oil and
gas fields.

Mass mobilization in Iraq against US-British forces will be at most a
nuisance - easily suppressed by the ruthless employment of massive
firepower. And Israel will use the opportunity to deal with Syria and
South Lebanon, and possibly with its Palestinian problem.

The character of this war will be completely different from the Iraq
war. No show-casing of democracy, no "nation-building", no
journalists, no Red Cross - but the kind of war the United States
would have fought in North Vietnam if it had not had to reckon with
the Soviet Union and China.

Paul Levian is a former German intelligence officer.

(Copyright 2006 Paul Levian.)

Speaking Freely is an Asia Times Online feature that allows guest
writers to have their say. Please click here if you are interested in
contributing. 	

-=snip=-

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/HB03Ak02.html
	


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From prather.js at verizon.net  Sun Feb  5 20:07:44 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sun Feb  5 21:08:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Supper Bowl Game
Message-ID: <0IU80027BR4WS6D1@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>

I call it that, because it starts when I'm supposed to sit down
for supper.  Or is it because that's what Snoopy calls it?

So it's halftime, and I feel that I've wasted half my time
watching this mess.  The Steelburg Spitters obviously have the
home field advantage, but have failed to dominate.  The Seahawks
are too far from salt water to stay within bounds on their pass
plays.  And the ads haven't been all that interesting or amusing
so far.  I'm supposed to watch the Rolling Stones during
halftime?

How soon can I go to bed, Mommy???

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From prather.js at verizon.net  Sun Feb  5 21:20:29 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sun Feb  5 21:23:49 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Yet another must-read
In-Reply-To: <43E6AF33.5040107@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <0IU800JAVUI52PJ9@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:06:43 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

>Savage just mentioned this article, and here it is!

Wow!  What an interesting scenario...

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Sun Feb  5 21:32:35 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sun Feb  5 21:33:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Yet another must-read
In-Reply-To: <0IU800JAVUI52PJ9@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IU800JAVUI52PJ9@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0602052129390.14413@trollboy.legomenon.org>

On Sun, 5 Feb 2006, Jerry Prather wrote:

> On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:06:43 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

> Wow!  What an interesting scenario...

There's chatter in the system, such as this article, that this will not be 
a go-it-alone mission for either Israel or the U.S. And I have to hand 
it to Savage because he has been on that band for awhile now.

What I found right on target in the article was the analysis of the import 
of Chirac's statement re his country's nukes, i.e. the implication therein 
that France would back any U.S. use of nukes.


-- 
Bob (ZoidBoy) Bernstein
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb  5 22:07:21 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dennis e. powell)
Date: Sun Feb  5 22:07:49 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] great superbowl
Message-ID: <200602052207.21273.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

america defeated starbucks and microsoft.

dep
-- 
This triangle of truisms, of father, mother and child, cannot be
destroyed; it can only destroy those civilisations which disregard
it.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 22:04:21 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Sun Feb  5 22:14:49 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Yet another must-read
In-Reply-To: <43E6AF33.5040107@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
References: <43E6AF33.5040107@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602051904q69663223ia5717e10c3b7519@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/06, Bob Bernstein <rs@bernstein.providence.ri.us> wrote:
> Savage just mentioned this article, and here it is!
>
> -=snip=-
>
Wow, that was good.
Daniel

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb  5 22:16:49 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dennis e. powell)
Date: Sun Feb  5 22:16:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Yet another must-read
In-Reply-To: <0IU800JAVUI52PJ9@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IU800JAVUI52PJ9@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602052216.50028.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Jerry Prather:
| On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:06:43 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:
| >Savage just mentioned this article, and here it is!
|
| Wow!  What an interesting scenario...

yeah, it is that. it is also wishful thinking. aintagonna happen.

dep
-- 
Religious liberty might be supposed to mean that everybody is free to
discuss religion. In practice it means that hardly anybody is allowed
to mention it.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From MSPRATH at aol.com  Sun Feb  5 23:03:48 2006
From: MSPRATH at aol.com (MSPRATH@aol.com)
Date: Sun Feb  5 23:05:51 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Yet another must-read
Message-ID: <2ce.2d19a7c.311824a4@aol.com>

 
That "aintagonna happen" was exactly what I was thinking.  Even though  I 
liked the premise.
 
Personally, I think we should tell Iran that they can go ahead and build a  
nuke.  But, if one gets used anywhere (not just on the US), Tehran's  gone.  
And that includes any bomb that comes from some non-nation  entity.  No 
questions asked.  Tehran's gone within minutes to be  followed by Mecca.  Then we put 
the onus on them to stop the  terrorism.  A slightly different twist on MAD.
 
Mike
 
In a message dated 2/5/2006 7:18:09 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
dep@drippingwithirony.com writes:

X-INFO:  INVALID TO LINE
quoth Jerry Prather:
| On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:06:43  -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:
| >Savage just mentioned this article, and  here it is!
|
| Wow!  What an interesting scenario...

yeah,  it is that. it is also wishful thinking. aintagonna happen.

dep
--  
Religious liberty might be supposed to mean that everybody is free  to
discuss religion. In practice it means that hardly anybody is  allowed
to mention it.
-- G. K.  Chesterton
_______________________________________________
os2-right-stuff-l  mailing  list
os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l




From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb  5 23:21:21 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dennis e. powell)
Date: Sun Feb  5 23:21:49 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Yet another must-read
In-Reply-To: <2ce.2d19a7c.311824a4@aol.com>
References: <2ce.2d19a7c.311824a4@aol.com>
Message-ID: <200602052321.21728.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth MSPRATH@aol.com:
| That "aintagonna happen" was exactly what I was thinking.  Even
| though  I liked the premise.
|
| Personally, I think we should tell Iran that they can go ahead and
| build a nuke.  But, if one gets used anywhere (not just on the US),
| Tehran's  gone. And that includes any bomb that comes from some
| non-nation  entity.  No questions asked.  Tehran's gone within
| minutes to be  followed by Mecca.  Then we put the onus on them to
| stop the  terrorism.  A slightly different twist on MAD.

i agree, but for one problem: iranians are not arabs, and the arabs take 
great pride in that fact. iran, for instance, hates saudi arabia. it 
was not long ago that the discussion about an iranian nuke had to do 
with whether they'd use it on saudia. though with the current nutjob 
running the place, who knows.

dep
-- 
But in one respect, I will heartily concede, the cult of divorce has
differed from the mere cult of death.  The cult of death is dead.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 23:30:17 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Sun Feb  5 23:30:50 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] great superbowl
In-Reply-To: <200602052207.21273.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
References: <200602052207.21273.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602052030p6e1ac2ddv27284a212d49efda@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/06, dennis e. powell <dep@drippingwithirony.com> wrote:
> america defeated starbucks and microsoft.
>
> dep
I didn't know starbucks is headquartered in the Pacific northwest. 
Hear-hear for the microsoft defeat.  YA.
Daniel

From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Sun Feb  5 23:34:27 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Sun Feb  5 23:34:50 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Yet another must-read
In-Reply-To: <200602052321.21728.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
References: <2ce.2d19a7c.311824a4@aol.com>
	<200602052321.21728.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602052034s1cea745es8b1d0cc4614b567a@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/5/06, dennis e. powell <dep@drippingwithirony.com> wrote:
> quoth MSPRATH@aol.com:
> | That "aintagonna happen" was exactly what I was thinking.  Even
> | though  I liked the premise.
> |
> | Personally, I think we should tell Iran that they can go ahead and
> | build a nuke.  But, if one gets used anywhere (not just on the US),
> | Tehran's  gone. And that includes any bomb that comes from some
> | non-nation  entity.  No questions asked.  Tehran's gone within
> | minutes to be  followed by Mecca.  Then we put the onus on them to
> | stop the  terrorism.  A slightly different twist on MAD.
>

I like it, too.

> i agree, but for one problem: iranians are not arabs, and the arabs take
> great pride in that fact. iran, for instance, hates saudi arabia. it
> was not long ago that the discussion about an iranian nuke had to do
> with whether they'd use it on saudia. though with the current nutjob
> running the place, who knows.
>
> dep
Since all the Muslim/Islam factions have a hard time getting along,
why can't we rile things up between them (where they won't know it's
an outside influence riling them up), and let them be the solution to
our problems?
Daniel

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb  5 23:45:19 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dennis e. powell)
Date: Sun Feb  5 23:45:50 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Yet another must-read
In-Reply-To: <46d72e000602052034s1cea745es8b1d0cc4614b567a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <2ce.2d19a7c.311824a4@aol.com>
	<200602052321.21728.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
	<46d72e000602052034s1cea745es8b1d0cc4614b567a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200602052345.19651.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Daniel Kruse:

| Since all the Muslim/Islam factions have a hard time getting along,
| why can't we rile things up between them (where they won't know it's
| an outside influence riling them up), and let them be the solution to
| our problems?

because we have this annoying establishment called the state department, 
the self-assigned purpose of which is maintaining the status quo rather 
than the solution of problems. it thumbs its nose at presidents. and 
the world would be a better place if about half its career employees 
were taken out and shot. (right after we're done with trial lawyers, 
which will take a little while, because there are a half dozen honest 
trial lawyers, who survive in the business because they keep their 
honesty a secret, and they actually oughtn't be shot. fortunately, i 
know all of them.)

dep
-- 
The free man owns himself. He can damage himself with either eating or
drinking; he can ruin himself with gambling. If he does he is
certainly a damn fool, and he might possibly be a damned soul; but if
he may not, he is not a free man any more than a dog.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From prather.js at verizon.net  Sun Feb  5 20:00:26 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb  6 00:15:50 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Message to the World
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.63.0602051816360.14413@trollboy.legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <0IU800CTBQSQTEU7@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 18:22:59 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>I suggest one amendment:
>
>To whom it may concern. Effective immediately for all U.S. sovereign 
>territories: all environmental constrictions on the exploration, drilling, 
>pumping, shipment and refining of petroleum products are herewith 
>suspended until further notice. Have a nice day.

I'll second that Amendment!

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Mon Feb  6 01:21:29 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca)
Date: Mon Feb  6 01:22:51 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Supper Bowl Game
In-Reply-To: <0IU80027BR4WS6D1@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IU80027BR4WS6D1@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602052221.29753.spmaiorca@cox.net>

I was working and doing some writing...

On Sunday 05 February 2006 5:07 pm, Jerry Prather wrote:
> I call it that, because it starts when I'm supposed to sit down
> for supper.  Or is it because that's what Snoopy calls it?
>
> So it's halftime, and I feel that I've wasted half my time
> watching this mess.  The Steelburg Spitters obviously have the
> home field advantage, but have failed to dominate.  The Seahawks
> are too far from salt water to stay within bounds on their pass
> plays.  And the ads haven't been all that interesting or amusing
> so far.  I'm supposed to watch the Rolling Stones during
> halftime?
>
> How soon can I go to bed, Mommy???
>
> Jerry
> --
> Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.
>
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
From sjkleinsr at cox.net  Mon Feb  6 04:40:34 2006
From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.)
Date: Mon Feb  6 04:43:55 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Current Events
Message-ID: <20060206094032.SXCA8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>

Current events at:  http://www.geekculture.org/joyoftech/index.html

Stan Klein, Sr.
Homeless, live in a truck
Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Mon Feb  6 13:56:45 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb  6 13:59:03 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Dear Arlen and Pat....
Message-ID: <38600.70.172.219.12.1139252205.squirrel@legomenon.org>

(Linked to by Rush...)

http://www.morgancunningham.net/downloads/article_18.pdf


-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Mon Feb  6 16:43:48 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Mon Feb  6 16:53:04 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd:  New Law Firm Coming to Town
Message-ID: <20060206214358.MTKL8484.centrmmtao02.cox.net@enigmaster>

A new law firm is coming to a town near you.  

And you includes the lawyers' favorite journalist, dep.

;-)



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From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Mon Feb  6 17:22:31 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Mon Feb  6 17:23:05 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd:  New Law Firm Coming to Town
In-Reply-To: <20060206214358.MTKL8484.centrmmtao02.cox.net@enigmaster>
References: <20060206214358.MTKL8484.centrmmtao02.cox.net@enigmaster>
Message-ID: <200602061722.32007.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Mike Riddle:
| A new law firm is coming to a town near you.
|
| And you includes the lawyers' favorite journalist, dep.
|
| ;-)

very amusing.

and it's not that i so much object to lawyers as to the fact that the 
practice of law is allowed and prostitution is not, yet the two closely 
resemble each other, differing only in that the latter provides some 
satisfaction.
-- 
dep

If there were no God, there would be no atheists.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From prather.js at verizon.net  Mon Feb  6 16:24:22 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb  6 18:01:05 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: RE: [jazz-westcoast] interesting editorial
	today - is this it ???
Message-ID: <0IUA00J7IBGQ2M1D@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>

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>Date: Mon, 06 Feb 2006 21:04:20 +0000
>From: "Gordon Sapsed" <gordonsapsed@btinternet.com>
>Subject: RE: [jazz-westcoast] interesting editorial today - is this it ???
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>

This may be what Linda spotted in the Arizona Star today :
(Gordon Sapsed)


Opinion
My opinion Jonah Goldberg: Rappers sell fans pig in mainstream
poke
Tucson, Arizona | Published: 02.06.2006
advertisement
I am in no position to judge the merits of Kanye West's music. I
stopped
listening to rap when you could still find Grandmaster Flash and
the Furious
Five on the radio. These days, I think it's mostly just noise.
When people tell me, "Oh, but it's technically very
complicated," or "You
don't understand how much work goes into it," I'm reminded of a
scene from
"Don Quixote":
A man walks to the center of town and gathers a crowd for the
show he's
about to put on. The man picks up a dog and inserts a tube into
its rump. He
begins to inflate the canine. The crowd watches, fascinated. The
dog grows
larger and rounder.
Eventually, the man pulls the tube out and the air escapes
loudly from the
poor pooch's rear as it runs away. The man turns to the crowd
and asks: "You
think it's easy to inflate a dog with a tube?"
Moral: Just because someone works hard at something doesn't mean
it's great
art.
That's my disclosure for those who'd charge me with not
"getting" rap music:
guilty as charged.
But I do think I understand marketing and public relations, and
I am
astounded by the naivete of young people - black and white - who
actually
buy the canned rebelliousness not just of rap music but of most
pop music.
West is simply the latest example of decades of hucksterism.
Under the
headline "The Passion of Kanye West," the rap star graces the
cover of
Rolling Stone posing as a bloodied Jesus with a crown of thorns.
I particularly enjoy the publicity around the piece. Clearly
borrowing from
the same press release, publications across the country proclaim
that the
"outspoken rapper defends his brash attitude inside the
magazine."
Ah, yes. It's about time. After all, it's so rare to find a
rapper with a
brash attitude. Normally they're shy, retiring types overflowing
with
modesty and humility. I was particularly enamored with the "aw,
shucks" Andy
Griffith personalities of Niggaz With Attitude and the late
Tupac Shakur.
We're supposed to believe West has been persecuted for his
anti-Bush tirades
and his determination to keep it real. But his biggest complaint
is that
people criticize him for being arrogant.
"You want me to be great, but you don't ever want me to say I'm
great?" he
asks.
Of course, the editors also hoped to stir up some controversy,
maybe even
incite some religious conservatives to play to type, by
exploiting the
imagery of Jesus' suffering. I never went to Sunday school, but
I don't
recall that Jesus was crucified for being smug.
It's all such an obvious con game. We hear so much about how
kids today are
cynical, skeptical, media-savvy and so forth. But if they're
buying this
hooey, they're idiots.
Obviously, none of this is unique to rap or "black" music
(quotation marks
necessary because white suburban kids are the biggest market for
the stuff).
Big corporations have been marketing "rebellion" since the
1950s. And the
kids fall for it every time.
As far as the music industry goes, Kanye West is mainstream, but
he won't
admit it. Instead he sells himself as a victim of a society that
can't
handle his truth. Four million records sold and saturation
adulation in the
media suggest it can handle his truth just fine.
The problem is, it ain't the truth. It's just a scam for kids
who don't
realize they're being played - again.
Want to be a real rebel? Read a book.
Contact Jonah Goldberg at JonahsColumn@aol.com


_______________________________________________
jazz-westcoast mailing list
jazz-westcoast@merchant.book.uci.edu
http://merchant.book.uci.edu/mailman/listinfo/jazz-westcoast

===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From prather.js at verizon.net  Mon Feb  6 18:32:10 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb  6 18:36:06 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Democrats tire me out...
Message-ID: <0IUA00EULHDMSDU0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

I'm tired of moveon.org and their Congressional sycophants
ranting about how the Bush administration has broken the law:
i.e., FISA.

My challenge to them is: bring a law suit.

They ain't a gonna do that, because they know that FISA is
unconstitutional.  The President has the right to this
"intrusion" and the Dems know it and have used it in the past.

Bring it to the law, or shut up, Dems!


Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Mon Feb  6 18:59:00 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Mon Feb  6 19:04:09 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Democrats tire me out...
In-Reply-To: <0IUA00EULHDMSDU0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602062359.k16Nx1Bt017808@oasis.novia.net>

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:32:10 -0500 (EST), Jerry Prather wrote:

>I'm tired of moveon.org and their Congressional sycophants
>ranting about how the Bush administration has broken the law:
>i.e., FISA.

>My challenge to them is: bring a law suit.

>They ain't a gonna do that, because they know that FISA is
>unconstitutional.  The President has the right to this
>"intrusion" and the Dems know it and have used it in the past.

>Bring it to the law, or shut up, Dems!




http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/
EFF's Class-Action Lawsuit Against AT&T for Collaboration with 
Illegal Domestic Spying Program

     * FAQ
     * Summary of Key News Reports
     * Legal Documents
     * Related Links

The Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) filed a class-action lawsuit 
against AT&T on January 31, 2006, accusing the telecom giant of 
violating the law and the privacy of its customers by collaborating 
with the National Security Agency (NSA) in its massive and illegal 
program to wiretap and data-mine Americans' communications.

In December of 2005, the press revealed that the government had 
instituted a comprehensive and warrantless electronic surveillance 
program that ignored the careful safeguards set forth by Congress. 
This surveillance program, purportedly authorized by the President at 
least as early as 2001 and primarily undertaken by the NSA, 
intercepts and analyzes the communications of millions of ordinary 
Americans.

In the largest "fishing expedition" ever devised, the NSA uses 
powerful computers to "data-mine" the contents of these Internet and 
telephone communications for suspicious names, numbers, and words, 
and to analyze traffic data indicating who is calling and emailing 
whom in order to identify persons who may be "linked" to "suspicious 
activities," suspected terrorists or other investigatory targets, 
whether directly or indirectly.

But the government did not act-and is not acting-alone. The 
government requires the collaboration of major telecommunications 
companies to implement its unprecedented and illegal domestic spying 
program.

AT&T Corp. (which was recently acquired by the new AT&T, Inc,. 
formerly known as SBC Communications) maintains domestic 
telecommunications facilities over which millions of Americans' 
telephone and Internet communications pass every day. It also manages 
some of the largest databases in the world, containing records of 
most or all communications made through its myriad telecommunications 
services.

The lawsuits alleges that AT&T Corp. has opened its key 
telecommunications facilities and databases to direct access by the 
NSA and/or other government agencies, thereby disclosing to the 
government the contents of its customers' communications as well as 
detailed communications records about millions of its customers, 
including the lawsuit's class members.

The lawsuit also alleges that AT&T has given the government 
unfettered access to its over 300 terabyte "Daytona" database of 
caller information -- one of the largest databases in the world. 
Moreover, by opening its network and databases to wholesale 
surveillance by the NSA, EFF alleges that AT&T has violated the 
privacy of its customers and the people they call and email, as well 
as broken longstanding communications privacy laws.

The lawsuit also alleges that AT&T continues to assist the government 
in its secret surveillance of millions of Americans. EFF, on behalf 
of a nationwide class of AT&T customers, is suing to stop this 
illegal conduct and hold AT&T responsible for its illegal 
collaboration in the government's domestic spying program, which has 
violated the law and damaged the fundamental freedoms of the American 
public.





From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Mon Feb  6 19:14:51 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb  6 19:16:07 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Democrats tire me out...
In-Reply-To: <0IUA00EULHDMSDU0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IUA00EULHDMSDU0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <39494.70.172.219.12.1139271291.squirrel@legomenon.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Mon, February 6, 2006 6:32 pm, Jerry Prather said:

> I'm tired of moveon.org and their Congressional sycophants
> ranting about how the Bush administration has broken the law:
> i.e., FISA.

This 'tactic' of theirs could backfire. Much as I don't think the
election this year is going to be a slamdunk for the Republicans, I
also think there are a LOT of VERY angry people out there who resent
LIKE HELL the Dems playing politics with their lives and the future of
the nation.

What do the assembled faithful think about this November?


- --
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

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From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Mon Feb  6 19:22:09 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb  6 19:23:07 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] ...and foithermore
Message-ID: <39528.70.172.219.12.1139271729.squirrel@legomenon.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Here's an internet fun-fact that I discovered last night looking for
an article: type 'congress foreign secret Constitution' into google
and the first two hits are to opinionjournal.com! The second one, by
Pete du Pont, gives the best argument yet for reading the Constitution
in favor of the executive regarding foreign espionage and national
security generally:

"we find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin

http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont/?id=110007823




- --
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

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From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Mon Feb  6 19:21:16 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Mon Feb  6 19:24:07 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Democrats tire me out...
In-Reply-To: <0IUA00EG9IZYWV70@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602070021.k170LG63025023@oasis.novia.net>

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:07:08 -0500 (EST), Jerry Prather wrote:

>>http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/att/
>>EFF's Class-Action Lawsuit Against AT&T for Collaboration with 
>>Illegal Domestic Spying Program

>Yeah, I knew about that.  But where is the open association of
>the Democrats with that suit?  Will it get heard it time to make
>any difference?  It's all the (smarmy) art of politics...

Did you read the LA Times editorial I posted earlier today?  Need any 
more proof?

Filing a suit against AT&T is pretty elegant (sneaky?).  If the program 
does what the press thinks it does, it's because the Telcos are 
cooperating by providing access, probably under the CALEA that was 
passed in the 90s.




From prather.js at verizon.net  Mon Feb  6 19:32:15 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb  6 19:33:08 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] ...and foithermore
In-Reply-To: <39528.70.172.219.12.1139271729.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <0IUA009CAK5RYSV1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>

On Mon, 06 Feb 2006 19:22:09 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>"we find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
>members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin

[My new .sig!  Thanks!]

"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Mon Feb  6 20:31:59 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb  6 21:24:09 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Democrats tire me out...
In-Reply-To: <200602070021.k170LG63025023@oasis.novia.net>
References: <0IUA00EG9IZYWV70@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
	<200602070021.k170LG63025023@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <39691.70.172.219.12.1139275919.squirrel@legomenon.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Mon, February 6, 2006 7:21 pm, Mike Riddle said:

> Did you read the LA Times editorial I posted earlier today?

I couldn't get through it. I made me queasy.

> probably under the CALEA that was passed in the 90s.
                     ^^^^^

Ok, for the peanut gallery, qu'est-ce que 'CALEA'?


<mumble><grumble><grumble>everybody's a damn expert<grumble><grumble>

- --
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.


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From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Mon Feb  6 20:48:27 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb  6 21:24:10 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] ...and foithermore
In-Reply-To: <0IUA009CAK5RYSV1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <39528.70.172.219.12.1139271729.squirrel@legomenon.org>
	<0IUA009CAK5RYSV1@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <39720.70.172.219.12.1139276907.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Mon, February 6, 2006 7:32 pm, Jerry Prather said:

>> "we find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
>> members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin
>
> [My new .sig!  Thanks!]

You're welcome!

You said earlier tonight that you believe FISA is unconstitutional.
Can you share why, and/or what you've read to that effect?

My sense is that it must gall the Dem's to no end that FISA is,
apparently, an _optional_ exercise in some cases, namely those where
-- as in the NSA program in dispute -- one end of the communication
arises in a foreign country. That narrows the "mandatory" scope of
FISA to....what? Eavesdropping on communcations wholly contained
within U.S. geography but transpiring between foreign agents,
including U.S. citizens acting as same? (I realize that the writers of
FISA did not intend this outcome!)

I think that the condition of "during wartime" is not needed to assert
the commander-in-chief's responsibility and concomitant authority to
pursue such foreign intelligence as he deems necessary for the safety
of the realm.

Therefore, to the degree FISA encroaches on the executive's ability to
undertake the unfettered pursuit of foreign intelligence, then it must
unconstitutional.

Pick one:

[ ] Yes
[ ] No
[ ] You promised you'd lay off the NyQuil!





-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From prather.js at verizon.net  Mon Feb  6 08:20:05 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb  6 21:25:08 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Yet another must-read
In-Reply-To: <46d72e000602052034s1cea745es8b1d0cc4614b567a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0IU900DWPP1IT9C2@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sun, 05 Feb 2006 22:34:27 -0600, Daniel Kruse wrote:

>Since all the Muslim/Islam factions have a hard time getting along,
>why can't we rile things up between them (where they won't know it's
>an outside influence riling them up), and let them be the solution to
>our problems?

That was tried (although I don't know that we were  behind it). 
Iraq and Iran messed each other up pretty badly, but Iran didn't
take down Saddam, and Iraq didn't end the theocracy.  Both were
incompetent, as usual;  but they killed a lot of Muslims.  

No, I think a better target is to get the Iranians to rise up
against their nut case government.  I trust the Persian people
more than the Arabs (for whatever that's worth).

Jerry
--
Jazz is alive and well and living in Brasil.

From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Mon Feb  6 21:44:34 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Mon Feb  6 21:45:10 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Democrats tire me out...
In-Reply-To: <39691.70.172.219.12.1139275919.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <200602070244.k172icbl008920@oasis.novia.net>

On Mon, 6 Feb 2006 20:31:59 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>Ok, for the peanut gallery, qu'est-ce que 'CALEA'?

"Commnications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act."

Glad you asked?




From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 23:31:19 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Mon Feb  6 23:32:10 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Current Events
In-Reply-To: <20060206094032.SXCA8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@172.18.53.8>
References: <20060206094032.SXCA8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@172.18.53.8>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602062031l511cf65as37353bb24544c41c@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/6/06, Stan Klein, Sr. <sjkleinsr@cox.net> wrote:
> Current events at:  http://www.geekculture.org/joyoftech/index.html
>
> Stan Klein, Sr.
> Homeless, live in a truck
> Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black
>
Ouch.
Daniel

From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Mon Feb  6 23:53:45 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Mon Feb  6 23:54:11 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Democrats tire me out...
In-Reply-To: <39494.70.172.219.12.1139271291.squirrel@legomenon.org>
References: <0IUA00EULHDMSDU0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
	<39494.70.172.219.12.1139271291.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602062053g3dff8bcap2cb46431523eaab5@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/6/06, Bob Bernstein <zoidberg@legomenon.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
<snip>
> This 'tactic' of theirs could backfire. Much as I don't think the
> election this year is going to be a slamdunk for the Republicans, I
> also think there are a LOT of VERY angry people out there who resent
> LIKE HELL the Dems playing politics with their lives and the future of
> the nation.
>
> What do the assembled faithful think about this November?
>
>
Since you asked...
I'm going to guess more moderates/conservatives will gain seats and
more wackos will be ousted - I hope, anyway.
Daniel

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Tue Feb  7 03:42:09 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Tue Feb  7 03:43:16 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Is the jig up?
Message-ID: <43E85D61.3060207@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

The Wall Street Journal 		

Assad and the Ayatollah
February 7, 2006; Page A26

In the matter of those Danish cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammed,
reasonable people may differ on the wisdom of their publication. The
reaction among some elements in Muslim communities is another issue.

In Britain, Muslim protesters carried placards reading, "Butcher those
who mock Islam." In Gaza, Palestinian gunmen stormed the offices of
the European Union, never mind the billions the EU has disbursed in
humanitarian aid over the years. In Beirut, rioters set fire to the
building housing the Danish and Slovakian consulates and the Austrian
embassy.

So it's worth taking note of those in the Muslim world who have shown
some perspective. "Who insults Islam more," asks Jordanian editor
Jihad al-Momani. "A foreigner who draws the prophet or a Muslim with
an explosive killing himself at a wedding in Amman or anywhere else?"
Mr. Momani lost his job at the weekly newspaper Shihan for
republishing three of the offending cartoons. In Lebanon, Prime
Minister Fouad Sinoria has apologized to the Danish government,
accepted the resignation of his interior minister for failing to
protect the consulates, and said, "The prophet Mohammed cannot be
defended in this way."

In Iraq, Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani, the country's leading Shiite
cleric, condemned the cartoons' publication as a "horrific action."
But he aimed most of his fire at those "misguided and oppressive"
Muslims -- i.e., terrorists and their fellow travelers -- who "have
exploited this . . . to spread their poison and revive their old
hatreds with new methods." It was they, he said, and not the
cartoonists, who were chiefly to blame for "[projecting] a distorted
and dark image of the faith of justice, love and brotherhood."

The Ayatollah has been a voice of sense and moderation throughout the
conflict in Iraq, so his reaction now comes as no surprise. Compare
that to the behavior of Bashar Assad's Syrian regime. In Damascus,
"demonstrators" stormed and burned down the embassies of Denmark,
Norway, Sweden and Chile without the Syrians lifting a finger in their
defense. We put "demonstrators" in quotation marks because no real
protest could last 15 minutes in that dictatorship without official
sanction. It has also been reported that Syrian nationals played a
role in the attacks on the consulates in Lebanon.

The assault in Damascus comes straight from the Middle East Autocrats'
Playbook: Deflect popular discontent with your own misrule by
directing hostility toward foreigners, especially Israel and the U.S.
But it is a sign of cynicism and perhaps desperation that this
Baathist and secular regime should now do so against European states
-- traditionally neutral with respect to Syria -- and on behalf of a
supposedly injured religion. In 1982, Mr. Assad's father inflicted a
rather graver injury on Islam when he massacred 20,000 members of the
Muslim Brotherhood at Hama.

Another Baathist -- Saddam Hussein -- also tried to fly an Islamic
banner in the waning days of his rule, so perhaps the Assad gang is
running out of tricks. In the meantime, it's encouraging to know that
in most places where democracy is taking root, voices of moderation
are at least occasionally being heard.

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113927839219366805.html

-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Tue Feb  7 13:29:06 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca)
Date: Tue Feb  7 14:54:26 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Is the jig up?
In-Reply-To: <43E85D61.3060207@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
References: <43E85D61.3060207@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <200602071029.07027.spmaiorca@cox.net>

They also forgot in Lebanon the rioters set fire to local Churches.
I'm worried for Mariam's family back in Egypt.
-Patrick
On Tuesday 07 February 2006 12:42 am, Bob Bernstein wrote:
> The Wall Street Journal
>
> Assad and the Ayatollah
> February 7, 2006; Page A26
>
> In the matter of those Danish cartoons depicting the prophet Mohammed,
> reasonable people may differ on the wisdom of their publication. The
> reaction among some elements in Muslim communities is another issue.
>
> In Britain, Muslim protesters carried placards reading, "Butcher those
> who mock Islam." In Gaza, Palestinian gunmen stormed the offices of
> the European Union, never mind the billions the EU has disbursed in
> humanitarian aid over the years. In Beirut, rioters set fire to the
> building housing the Danish and Slovakian consulates and the Austrian
> embassy.
>
> So it's worth taking note of those in the Muslim world who have shown
> some perspective. "Who insults Islam more," asks Jordanian editor
> Jihad al-Momani. "A foreigner who draws the prophet or a Muslim with
> an explosive killing himself at a wedding in Amman or anywhere else?"
> Mr. Momani lost his job at the weekly newspaper Shihan for
> republishing three of the offending cartoons. In Lebanon, Prime
> Minister Fouad Sinoria has apologized to the Danish government,
> accepted the resignation of his interior minister for failing to
> protect the consulates, and said, "The prophet Mohammed cannot be
> defended in this way."
>
> In Iraq, Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani, the country's leading Shiite
> cleric, condemned the cartoons' publication as a "horrific action."
> But he aimed most of his fire at those "misguided and oppressive"
> Muslims -- i.e., terrorists and their fellow travelers -- who "have
> exploited this . . . to spread their poison and revive their old
> hatreds with new methods." It was they, he said, and not the
> cartoonists, who were chiefly to blame for "[projecting] a distorted
> and dark image of the faith of justice, love and brotherhood."
>
> The Ayatollah has been a voice of sense and moderation throughout the
> conflict in Iraq, so his reaction now comes as no surprise. Compare
> that to the behavior of Bashar Assad's Syrian regime. In Damascus,
> "demonstrators" stormed and burned down the embassies of Denmark,
> Norway, Sweden and Chile without the Syrians lifting a finger in their
> defense. We put "demonstrators" in quotation marks because no real
> protest could last 15 minutes in that dictatorship without official
> sanction. It has also been reported that Syrian nationals played a
> role in the attacks on the consulates in Lebanon.
>
> The assault in Damascus comes straight from the Middle East Autocrats'
> Playbook: Deflect popular discontent with your own misrule by
> directing hostility toward foreigners, especially Israel and the U.S.
> But it is a sign of cynicism and perhaps desperation that this
> Baathist and secular regime should now do so against European states
> -- traditionally neutral with respect to Syria -- and on behalf of a
> supposedly injured religion. In 1982, Mr. Assad's father inflicted a
> rather graver injury on Islam when he massacred 20,000 members of the
> Muslim Brotherhood at Hama.
>
> Another Baathist -- Saddam Hussein -- also tried to fly an Islamic
> banner in the waning days of his rule, so perhaps the Assad gang is
> running out of tricks. In the meantime, it's encouraging to know that
> in most places where democracy is taking root, voices of moderation
> are at least occasionally being heard.
>
> URL for this article:
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113927839219366805.html
From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 00:53:02 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Wed Feb  8 00:53:34 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Grandstanding
Message-ID: <46d72e000602072153i22abc94ds24a7f9ad3e3709f3@mail.gmail.com>

Oh, this is so irritating.  Are they paying their respects to the late
Mrs. King or grandstanding?  WTF is wrong with them?

<http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/2/7/131709.shtml??s=et&promo_code=1ADB-1>

Although, it is great to see that they are stooping so low in the
public eye.  They've damaged their credibility before this and now
this?  Can't wait to see what Stein, Coulter, et al. have to say about
this, if anything, since this can speak on its own.  Great going,
quasi-reverends Jackson and Sharpton, you make our work far easier.
Please, keep opening your mouths so we can see just how far you can
cram that fat foot down it.  At the rate you two are going, why stop
at one foot?  Ram both of them down that gaping hole.  And, if we get
lucky, you both will implode.

Thanks for letting me vent.
Daniel

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Wed Feb  8 01:27:05 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb  8 01:27:35 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Let's roll.
Message-ID: <43E98F39.3060909@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

The Wall Street Journal 		

In a Single Night
By EDWARD N. LUTTWAK
February 8, 2006; Page A16

Many commentators argue that a pre-emptive air attack against Iran's
nuclear installations is unfeasible. It would not be swift or
surgical, they say, because it would require thousands of strike and
defense-suppression sorties. And it is likely to fail even then
because some facilities might be too well hidden or too strongly
protected. There may well be other, perfectly valid reasons to oppose
an attack on Iran's nuclear sites. But let's not pretend that such an
attack has no chance of success. In fact, the odds are rather good.

The skeptics begin sensibly enough by rejecting any direct comparison
with Israel's 1981 air attack that incapacitated the Osirak reactor,
stopping Saddam Hussein's first try at producing plutonium bombs. Iran
is evidently following a different and much larger-scale path to
nuclear weapons, by the centrifuge "enrichment" of uranium
hexafluoride gas to increase the proportion of fissile uranium 235. It
requires a number of different plants operating in series to go from
natural uranium to highly enriched uranium formed in the specific
shapes needed to obtain an explosive chain reaction. Some of these
plants, notably the Natanz centrifuge plant, are both very large and
built below ground with thick overhead protection.

It is at this point that the argument breaks down. Yes, Iraq's weapon
program of 1981 was stopped by a single air strike carried out by less
than a squadron of fighter-bombers because it was centered in a single
large reactor building. Once it was destroyed, the mission was
accomplished. To do the same to Iran's 100-odd facilities would
require almost a hundred times as many sorties as the Israelis flew in
1981, which would strain even the U.S. Air Force. Some would even add
many more sorties to carry out a preliminary suppression campaign
against Iran's air defenses (a collection of inoperable anti-aircraft
weapons and obsolete fighters with outdated missiles). But the claim
that to stop Iran's program all of its nuclear sites must be destroyed
is simply wrong.

An air attack is not a Las Vegas demolitions contract, where nothing
must be left but well-flattened ground for the new casino to be built.
Iran might need 100 buildings in good working order to make its bomb,
but it is enough to demolish a few critical installations to delay its
program for years -- and perhaps longer because it would become harder
or impossible for Iran to buy the materials it bought when its efforts
were still secret. Some of these installations may be thickly
protected against air attack, but it seems that their architecture has
not kept up with the performance of the latest penetration bombs.

Nor could destroyed items be easily replaced by domestic production.
In spite of all the claims of technological self-sufficiency by its
engineer-president, not even metal parts of any complexity can be
successfully machined in Iran. More than 35% of Iran's gasoline must
now be imported because the capacity of its foreign-built refineries
cannot be expanded without components currently under U.S. embargo,
and which the locals cannot copy. Aircraft regularly fall out of the
sky because Iranians are unable to reverse-engineer spare parts.

The bombing of Iran's nuclear installations may still be a bad idea
for other reasons, but not because it would require a huge air
offensive. On the contrary, it could all be done in a single night.
One may hope that Iran's rulers will therefore accept a diplomatic
solution rather than gamble all on wildly exaggerated calculations.

Mr. Luttwak is a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic &
International Studies.

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113937026599968085.html


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Wed Feb  8 01:41:19 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb  8 01:41:40 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Let's review...
Message-ID: <43E9928F.5040301@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

The Wall Street Journal 		


Inherent Authority
By DAVID B. RIVKIN, JR. and LEE A. CASEY
February 8, 2006; Page A16

After weeks of frenzied debate over its legality, the Senate Judiciary
Committee has just held hearings on the NSA's electronic surveillance
of al Qaeda operatives communicating with American citizens in the
U.S. Many senators expressed the view that this program, whatever its
policy merits, should be subjected to additional congressional
regulation featuring greater judicial engagement. Proponents of such
measures assume that this can be done without impairing the program's
efficacy or violating the constitutional separation of powers. A
related assumption is that presidential discretion in this matter,
unsupervised by the courts, is constitutionally dubious and unduly
threatens civil liberty. All these assumptions are flawed.

Although enhanced congressional oversight of the NSA program may well
be constitutionally permissible and even sensible as a policy matter,
the requirement of a warrant for this type of surveillance would
trench upon the president's constitutional power as commander in chief
to monitor enemy communications in wartime. Far from being a
"pervasive" domestic spying program, the NSA has simply intercepted
the communications of al Qaeda operatives into, or out of, the U.S. As
described by former NSA director, Gen. Michael V. Hayden,
communications entirely within the U.S. are not targeted, and only
those international communications involving al Qaeda on one end are
collected and analyzed. All else is speculation (or wishful thinking)
by the administration's political opponents.

Even the NSA program's fiercest foes don't claim that it was designed
or administered for snooping on the president's "enemies" or critics.
Surveillance is conducted by career intelligence officials at an
agency renowned for discretion and professionalism. Nor has the
administration ignored privacy interests and congressional
prerogatives. According to media accounts, administration officials
have minimized the program's domestic footprint -- effectively
limiting it to the collection of battlefield intelligence, or the
practical equivalent, which is squarely within the president's
constitutional authority.

To be sure, discretionary presidential power has been abused in the
past -- under both Democrat and Republican administrations -- and J.
Edgar Hoover's ghost still haunts many who lived through the 1960s.
However, the constitutionally proper way to prevent such abuses is
through political accountability, not through the requirement of a
warrant. Here it is important to note that while the Fourth Amendment
requires all "searches and seizures" to be reasonable, not all
searches require a warrant. The courts have long recognized
circumstances in which warrantless searches and surveillance are
legally permissible, including, as articulated by the Foreign
Intelligence Surveillance Court itself, the president's "inherent
authority to conduct warrantless searches to obtain foreign
intelligence information." The question is whether, and the extent to
which, Congress can require the president to obtain a warrant where
the Constitution itself does not.

The courts have never squarely addressed this issue. By enacting the
Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA), Congress
certainly attempted to curtail the president's power in this area,
although that statute applies only if the surveillance is conducted
within the U.S., or if the target is an American. The law does not
specifically address the interception of wartime enemy communications,
although its operation is automatically suspended for 15 days after
Congress has "declared" war. As the Justice Department recently
explained in a detailed memorandum, interpreting FISA to forbid the
president's making "tactical military decisions to authorize
surveillance" would present serious constitutional problems. This
program is at the core of his power as commander in chief, not at the
periphery, as was President Truman's seizure of the nation's steel
mills during the Korean War.

In any event, a warrant requirement would be a bad idea. First, the
president must be able to exercise his own judgment and discretion in
certain critical areas, such as the actual conduct of an armed
conflict. Imposing a warrant requirement on his ability to monitor
enemy communications would fundamentally impair U.S. war-fighting
abilities. Arrangements like FISA's "72-hour" exception, which permits
the attorney general to authorize surveillance for up to 72 hours
without a warrant, are insufficient to ensure the necessary speed. As
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has explained, this provision
requires most of the work in preparing a warrant application to be
accomplished before "emergency" surveillance is authorized. The
time-saving is minimal.

Second, FISA permits warrants only against foreign powers or agents of
foreign powers. It does not address situations where al Qaeda's
American contact does not act as an "agent" -- or may not even
appreciate the significance of the communications. Amending FISA so
that warrants could issue merely upon showing that an individual has
had contact with al Qaeda would be possible, but it would devalue the
Fourth Amendment's probable cause requirement to an unprecedented
level. And it would draw the courts into review of discretionary
presidential decisions that are not constitutionally subject to
judicial control -- such as the determination whether a particular
overseas-based individual is sufficiently associated with al Qaeda to
pose a threat.

Legislation permitting the courts to review the overall reasonableness
of the program is also a flawed idea. The federal courts can only
adjudicate actual cases and controversies; they cannot offer advisory
opinions. Private litigants must establish that they have been injured
in some individualized manner before they have "standing" to sue.
Those whose conversations with al Qaeda have been monitored may have
such standing, but requiring the executive branch to notify them of
this fact would defeat the program's purpose -- to intercept the
enemy's communications without his knowledge.

In short, there is no obviously constitutional and practical means of
subjecting NSA's al Qaeda surveillance program to regular judicial
review. Instead, Congress must itself shoulder the responsibility. It
might enact a new FISA that would fully bless the president's
activities, but add enhanced oversight, involving more information
sharing with more members of Congress, backed up by the threat to use
its fiscal powers to de-fund the program if abuses arise.

Having thus secured a bigger seat at the table, Congress would also
have to share fully in the political risks and rewards associated with
the NSA terrorist surveillance program. This may well be politically
difficult and bureaucratically cumbersome, but no one ever said that
constitutional governance is easy. Despite much grumbling by the
critics, the real constitutional problem we face today is not the
administration's program. Rather, it is demands that the president's
war powers be checked by the judiciary, which is not politically
accountable, instead of by Congress, which is.

Messrs. Rivkin and Casey served in the Justice Department under
Presidents Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113936960153668061.html


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Wed Feb  8 02:29:51 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb  8 02:30:35 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Grandstanding
In-Reply-To: <46d72e000602072153i22abc94ds24a7f9ad3e3709f3@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46d72e000602072153i22abc94ds24a7f9ad3e3709f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45456.70.172.219.12.1139383791.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Wed, February 8, 2006 12:53 am, Daniel Kruse said:

> Thanks for letting me vent.

Please don't pussyfoot around Daniel; let us know what you really think!


-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Wed Feb  8 12:53:53 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca)
Date: Wed Feb  8 12:57:06 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Let's roll.
In-Reply-To: <43E98F39.3060909@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
References: <43E98F39.3060909@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <200602080953.53944.spmaiorca@cox.net>

I think a swift surgical strike is out of the question
what is needed is a massive air campaign not just to take out the reactors but 
also to take out as much of their conventional forces as well.  I would be 
shocked if Al Sadir did not receive any backing from Iran.
-Patrick
On Tuesday 07 February 2006 10:27 pm, Bob Bernstein wrote:
> r the new casino to be built.
> Iran might need 100 buildings in good working order to make its bomb,
> but it is enough to demolish a few critical installations to delay its
> program for years -- and perhaps longer because it would become harder
> or impossible for Iran to buy the materials it bought when its efforts
> were still secret. Some of these installations may be thickly
> protected against air attack, but it seems that their architecture has
> not kept up with the performance of the latest penetration bombs.
From prather.js at verizon.net  Wed Feb  8 08:48:43 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Wed Feb  8 13:58:07 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Let's review...
In-Reply-To: <43E9928F.5040301@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <0IUD00J8HFP8RDN6@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 01:41:19 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

>Inherent Authority
>By DAVID B. RIVKIN, JR. and LEE A. CASEY
>February 8, 2006; Page A16

Hey, didn't I just say something like this???  <G>

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Wed Feb  8 14:13:54 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb  8 14:15:07 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Let's review...
In-Reply-To: <0IUD00J8HFP8RDN6@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <43E9928F.5040301@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
	<0IUD00J8HFP8RDN6@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <47624.70.172.219.12.1139426034.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Wed, February 8, 2006 8:48 am, Jerry Prather said:

> Hey, didn't I just say something like this???  <G>

Hence the notion of 'review' in the Subject:! Think of that as an
homage Jerry!!


-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From sjkleinsr at cox.net  Wed Feb  8 13:49:50 2006
From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.)
Date: Wed Feb  8 14:41:07 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] I Believe
Message-ID: <20060208184944.ZLOT4002.centrmmtao06.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>

This is good, take time to read....


Believe... Have a seat....relax...and read this slowly.
 It kind a sums it all up..........

 I believe -
 That we don't have to change friends if we understand that friends
change.

 I believe -
 That no matter how good a friend is, they're going to hurt you every
once in a while and you must forgive them for that.

 I believe -
 That true friendship continues to grow, even over the longest distance.
Same goes for true love.

 I believe -
 That you can do something in an instant that will give you heartache
for life.

 I believe -
 That it's taking me a long time to become the person I want to be.

 I believe -
 That you should always leave loved ones with loving words. It may be
the last time you see them.

 I believe -
 That you can keep going long after you think you can't.

 I believe -
 That we are responsible for what we do, no matter how we feel.

 I believe -
 That either you control your attitude or it controls you.

 I believe -
 That heroes are the people who do what has to be done when it needs to
be done, regardless of the consequences.

 I believe -
 That money is a lousy way of keeping score.

 I believe -
 That my best friend and I can do anything or nothing and have the best
time.

 I believe -
 That sometimes the people you expect to kick you when you're down will
be the ones to help you get back up.

 I believe -
 That sometimes when I'm angry I have the right to be angry, but that
doesn't give me the right to be cruel.

 I believe -
 That maturity has more to do with what types of experiences you've had
and what you've learned from them and less to do with how many birthdays
you've celebrated.

 I believe -
 That it isn't always enough to be forgiven by others. Sometimes you
have to learn to forgive yourself.

 I believe -
 That no matter how bad your heart is broken the world doesn't stop for
your grief.

 I believe -
 That our background and circumstances may have influenced who we are,
but we are responsible for who we become.

 I believe -
 That just because two people argue, it doesn't mean they don't love
each other. And just because they don't argue, it doesn't mean they do.

 I believe -
 That you shouldn't be so eager to find out a secret. It could change
your life forever.

 I believe -
 That two people can look at the exact same thing and see something
totally different.

 I believe -
 That your life can be changed in a matter of hours by people who don't
even know you.

 I believe -
 That even when you think you have no more to give, when a friend cries
out to you - you will find the strength to help.

 I believe -
 That credentials on the wall do not make you a decent human being.

 I believe -
 That the people you care about most in life are taken from you too
soon.

 I believe -
 That you should send this to all of the people that you believe in. I
just did.


Stan Klein, Sr.
Homeless, live in a truck
Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black

From mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us  Wed Feb  8 14:54:48 2006
From: mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb  8 15:51:09 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Friday humor a little early
Message-ID: <20060208195451.TWLK8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================

Telecom Digest tells us:


An Indiana farm wife called the local phone company to report her
telephone failed to ring when her friends called, and that on the few
occasions when it did ring, her pet dog always moaned right before the
phone rang.

The telephone repairman proceeded to the scene, curious to see this
psychic dog or senile elderly lady. He climbed a nearby telephone pole,
hooked in his test set, and dialed the subscriber's house. The phone
didn't ring right away, but then the dog moaned loudly and the telephone
began to ring.

Climbing down from the pole, the telephone repairman found:

1. The dog was tied to the telephone system's ground wire via a steel
chain and collar.

2. The wire connection to the ground rod was loose.

3. The dog was receiving 90 volts of signaling current when the phone
number was called.

4 After a couple of such jolts, the dog would start moaning and then
urinate on himself and the ground.

5. The wet ground would complete the circuit, thus causing the phone to
ring.

Which demonstrates that some problems CAN be fixed by pissing and 
moaning.





===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================



From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Wed Feb  8 15:02:21 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb  8 16:08:08 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Turin Greets Katie Couric
Message-ID: <200602082002.k18K2KQN022082@oasis.novia.net>

Surf to http://www.drudgereport.com/flash8cc.htm and see how Turin (or the 
birds of Turin) greeted the "always perky Katie Couric" today on Today.





From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Wed Feb  8 16:33:41 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb  8 16:55:09 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Turin Greets Katie Couric
In-Reply-To: <200602082002.k18K2KQN022082@oasis.novia.net>
References: <200602082002.k18K2KQN022082@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <47964.70.172.219.12.1139434421.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Wed, February 8, 2006 3:02 pm, Mike Riddle said:

> Surf to http://www.drudgereport.com/flash8cc.htm and see how Turin
> (or the birds of Turin) greeted the "always perky Katie Couric" today
> on Today.

So perky Katie is now covering olympic competition? Is that her new
area of expertise?

BTW: keep an eye on New Hampshire's favorite son Bode Miller in the
downhill...Go Bode!

-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Wed Feb  8 21:57:51 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb  8 21:58:12 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tonight's Top Comment
Message-ID: <43EAAFAF.1010405@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

"The rioting Muslims claim they are upset because Islam prohibits any
depictions of Muhammad -- though the text is ambiguous on beheadings,
suicide bombings and flying planes into skyscrapers."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucac/20060209/cm_ucac/calvinandhobbesandmuhammad

-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 23:37:47 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Wed Feb  8 23:42:16 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tonight's Top Comment
In-Reply-To: <43EAAFAF.1010405@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
References: <43EAAFAF.1010405@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602082037h6028f8bh420faafacac9e694@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/06, Bob Bernstein <rs@bernstein.providence.ri.us> wrote:
> "The rioting Muslims claim they are upset because Islam prohibits any
> depictions of Muhammad -- though the text is ambiguous on beheadings,
> suicide bombings and flying planes into skyscrapers."
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucac/20060209/cm_ucac/calvinandhobbesandmuhammad
>
> --
> Bob Bernstein
Here, here, that was excellent.  I liked the who do the Muslims think
they are - liberals?  Priceless!
Daniel

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Wed Feb  8 23:47:34 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb  8 23:48:15 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tonight's Top Comment
In-Reply-To: <46d72e000602082037h6028f8bh420faafacac9e694@mail.gmail.com>
References: <43EAAFAF.1010405@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
	<46d72e000602082037h6028f8bh420faafacac9e694@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <49151.70.172.219.12.1139460454.squirrel@legomenon.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Wed, February 8, 2006 11:37 pm, Daniel Kruse said:

> Here, here, that was excellent.

I tell ya excellent: being Ann Coulter's sex slave would be EXCELLENT.



- --
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQFD6sllh3xeHo8d3akRAj0uAKCIrztxiq1lbXZjdV2XncKz1HLBUwCeOHu5
vGkqDiybBjq4mlBqrv7+jVc=
=amh/
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Wed Feb  8 23:52:49 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Wed Feb  8 23:53:15 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tonight's Top Comment
In-Reply-To: <49151.70.172.219.12.1139460454.squirrel@legomenon.org>
References: <43EAAFAF.1010405@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
	<46d72e000602082037h6028f8bh420faafacac9e694@mail.gmail.com>
	<49151.70.172.219.12.1139460454.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602082052v5e912089yaacf1c299743bcfa@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/8/06, Bob Bernstein <zoidberg@legomenon.org> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> On Wed, February 8, 2006 11:37 pm, Daniel Kruse said:
>
> > Here, here, that was excellent.
>
> I tell ya excellent: being Ann Coulter's sex slave would be EXCELLENT.
>
>
Having seen a photo of her so I know who she is, I can't disagree.
Daniel

From hourihanre01 at msn.com  Wed Feb  8 23:52:08 2006
From: hourihanre01 at msn.com (JOHN HOURIHAN)
Date: Wed Feb  8 23:53:16 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tonight's Top Comment
References: <43EAAFAF.1010405@bernstein.providence.ri.us><46d72e000602082037h6028f8bh420faafacac9e694@mail.gmail.com>
	<49151.70.172.219.12.1139460454.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <BAY114-DAV1262C0A0AE321D034DC30EDD030@phx.gbl>

Bob would like to be Rabbit's sex slave.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Bob Bernstein<mailto:zoidberg@legomenon.org> 
  To: Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,and life.<mailto:os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com> 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 11:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tonight's Top Comment


  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
  Hash: SHA1


  On Wed, February 8, 2006 11:37 pm, Daniel Kruse said:

  > Here, here, that was excellent.

  I tell ya excellent: being Ann Coulter's sex slave would be EXCELLENT.



  - --
  Bob Bernstein

  To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
  Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
  To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
  That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

           Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

  -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
  Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)

  iD8DBQFD6sllh3xeHo8d3akRAj0uAKCIrztxiq1lbXZjdV2XncKz1HLBUwCeOHu5
  vGkqDiybBjq4mlBqrv7+jVc=
  =amh/
  -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

  _______________________________________________
  os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
  os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com<mailto:os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
  http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l<http://mailmanjtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l>
From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Thu Feb  9 00:27:33 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Thu Feb  9 01:33:22 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tonight's Top Comment
In-Reply-To: <BAY114-DAV1262C0A0AE321D034DC30EDD030@phx.gbl>
References: <43EAAFAF.1010405@bernstein.providence.ri.us><46d72e000602082037h6028f8bh420faafacac9e694@mail.gmail.com>
	<49151.70.172.219.12.1139460454.squirrel@legomenon.org>
	<BAY114-DAV1262C0A0AE321D034DC30EDD030@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <49269.70.172.219.12.1139462853.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Wed, February 8, 2006 11:52 pm, JOHN HOURIHAN said:

> Bob would like to be Rabbit's sex slave.

Keep it up bigmouth! (And how, Oh Great Terse One, is anybody around
here supposed to know who or what a "Rabbit" is?)

Y'know my buddy Stan knows where you live; you hear a Freightliner
comiing up the driveway -- it ain't gonna be Fedex!!!



-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Thu Feb  9 10:56:41 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Thu Feb  9 11:07:25 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tonight's Top Comment
Message-ID: <20060209160255.TMJA20441.fed1rmmtao10.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

Actuly the Islam is clear Mohamed basicly "An infedel and one who kils him will never meet in hell" so  obviosly the basises of Islam are keep a sharp axe don't draw lving things and don't eat pork.
> 
> From: Daniel Kruse <daniel.lee.kruse@gmail.com>
> Date: 2006/02/08 Wed PM 11:37:47 EST
> To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life." <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tonight's Top Comment
> 
> On 2/8/06, Bob Bernstein <rs@bernstein.providence.ri.us> wrote:
> > "The rioting Muslims claim they are upset because Islam prohibits any
> > depictions of Muhammad -- though the text is ambiguous on beheadings,
> > suicide bombings and flying planes into skyscrapers."
> >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucac/20060209/cm_ucac/calvinandhobbesandmuhammad
> >
> > --
> > Bob Bernstein
> Here, here, that was excellent.  I liked the who do the Muslims think
> they are - liberals?  Priceless!
> Daniel
> 
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Thu Feb  9 14:26:52 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Thu Feb  9 14:27:46 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd:  Katrina Redux
Message-ID: <20060209192656.WOVC5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


A driver is stuck in a traffic jam on the I-10 in Baton Rouge. 

Suddenly a man knocks on the window. 

The driver rolls down his window and asks, "What happened?" 

"Terrorists have kidnapped Kathleen Blanco, Ray Nagin, Aaron Broussard, 
& Michael Brown. They are asking for a $10 million ransom. Otherwise 
they are going to douse them with gasoline and set them on fire. We are 
going from car to car, taking up a collection." 

The driver asks, "How much is everyone giving?" 

"About a gallon"



===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================





From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Thu Feb  9 21:06:33 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Thu Feb  9 21:07:52 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Very serious security issue re new Google
	Toolbar upgrade
Message-ID: <20060210020633.WBKF613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


http://www.eff.org/news/archives/2006_02.php#004400
February 09, 2006
Google Copies Your Hard Drive - Government Smiles in Anticipation

Consumers Should Not Use New Google Desktop

San Francisco - Google today announced a new 
"feature" of its Google Desktop software that 
greatly increases the risk to consumer privacy. 
If a consumer chooses to use it, the new "Search 
Across Computers" feature will store copies of 
the user's Word documents, PDFs, spreadsheets and 
other text-based documents on Google's own 
servers, to enable searching from any one of the 
user's computers. EFF urges consumers not to use 
this feature, because it will make their personal 
data more vulnerable to subpoenas from the 
government and possibly private litigants, while 
providing a convenient one-stop-shop for hackers 
who've obtained a user's Google password.

"Coming on the heels of serious consumer concern 
about government snooping into Google's search 
logs, it's shocking that Google expects its users 
to now trust it with the contents of their 
personal computers," said EFF Staff Attorney 
Kevin Bankston. "Unless you configure Google 
Desktop very carefully, and few people will, 
Google will have copies of your tax returns, love 
letters, business records, financial and medical 
files, and whatever other text-based documents 
the Desktop software can index. The government 
could then demand these personal files with only 
a subpoena rather than the search warrant it 
would need to seize the same things from your 
home or business, and in many cases you wouldn't 
even be notified in time to challenge it. Other 
litigantsyour spouse, your business partners or 
rivals, whoevercould also try to cut out the 
middleman (you) and subpoena Google for your files."

The privacy problem arises because the Electronic 
Communication Privacy Act of 1986, or ECPA, gives 
only limited privacy protection to emails and 
other files that are stored with online service 
providersmuch less privacy than the legal 
protections for the same information when it's on 
your computer at home. And even that lower level 
of legal protection could disappear if Google 
uses your data for marketing purposes. Google 
says it is not yet scanning the files it copies 
from your hard drive in order to serve targeted 
advertising, but it hasn't ruled out the 
possibility, and Google's current privacy policy appears to allow it.

"This Google product highlights a key privacy 
problem in the digital age," said Cindy Cohn, 
EFF's Legal Director. "Many Internet innovations 
involve storing personal files on a service 
provider's computer, but under outdated laws, 
consumers who want to use these new technologies 
have to surrender their privacy rights. If Google 
wants consumers to trust it to store copies of 
personal computer files, emails, search histories 
and chat logs, and still 'not be evil,' it should 
stand with EFF and demand that Congress update 
the privacy laws to better reflect life in the wired world."

For more on Google's data collection:

http://news.com.com/FAQ+When+Google+is+not+your+friend/2100-1025_3-6034666.html?tag=nl 

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/01/21/google_subpoena_roils_the_web 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/01/20/EDGEPGPHA61.DTL 

http://news.com.com/%20Bill+would+force+Web+sites+to+delete+personal+info/2100-1028_3-6036951.html 




===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Thu Feb  9 22:16:09 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Thu Feb  9 22:15:53 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] vanentine for osama
Message-ID: <200602092216.09518.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

Little Melissa comes home from first grade and tells her father that 
they learned about the history of Valentine's Day. "Since Valentine's 
Day is for a Christian saint and we're Jewish," she asks,"will God get 
mad at me for giving someone a valentine? 

Melissa's father thinks a bit, then says "No, I don't think God would 
get mad. Who do you want to give a valentine to?" 

"Osama Bin Laden," she says. 

"Why Osama Bin Laden?" her father asks in shock. 

"Well," she says, "I thought that if a little American Jewish girl could 
have enough love to give Osama a valentine, he might start to think 
that maybe we're not all bad, and maybe start loving people a little 
bit. And if other kids saw what I did and sent valentines to Osama, 
he'd love everyone a lot. And then he'd start going all over the place 
to tell everyone how much he loved them and how he didn't hate anyone 
anymore." 

Her father's heart swells and he looks at his daughter with newfound 
pride. "Melissa, that's the most wonderful thing I've ever heard." 

"I know," Melissa says, "and once that gets him out in the open, the 
Marines could blow his ass up."
-- 
dep

This is the age in which thin and theoretic minorities can cover and
conquer unconscious and untheoretic majorities.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Thu Feb  9 22:23:33 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Thu Feb  9 22:23:54 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Meet 2008 Star Sen. George Allen
In-Reply-To: <4mt85l$frs7dq@xtinmta02.xt.local>
References: <4mt85l$frs7dq@xtinmta02.xt.local>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602091923y54e86542ue37edbf416befa32@mail.gmail.com>

Quite a bit here but good info.
Daniel
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: NewsMax.com <newsmax@reply.newsmax.com>
Date: Feb 9, 2006 8:35 PM
Subject: Meet 2008 Star Sen. George Allen
To: daniel.lee.kruse@gmail.com


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From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Thu Feb  9 22:52:52 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Thu Feb  9 22:51:54 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] great quote
Message-ID: <200602092252.53055.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

from rod dreher:

"The New York Times today publishes the image of a painting of the 
Virgin Mary pocked with cow dung. I don't know how doing so is 
productive towards realizing social comity, and in the unlikely event 
that mobs of Christians begin burning down newsstands all over New 
York, and threatening the Times editors with beheading, I hope that we 
will observe in our editorial commentary that as bad as these Christian 
mobs are, the Times started it."

http://dallasmorningviews.beloblog.com/archives/2006/02/re_cartoon_late_3.html
-- 
dep

It is the main earthly business of a human being to make his home, and
the immediate surroundings of his home, as symbolic and significant
to his own imagination as he can.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Thu Feb  9 23:02:01 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Thu Feb  9 23:05:55 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] looks more like mohammed (peace be upon his
	batter) to me
Message-ID: <200602092302.01347.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

http://www.local6.com/news/6880241/detail.html

Couple Claims Jesus Appeared On Pancake

Mike Thompson said he was making flapjacks for his family over the 
weekend when an image caught his eye.

Upon closer inspection, Thompson noticed what appeared to be the face of 
Jesus. He showed his wife, who agreed the image appeared to be Jesus.

Thompson said he believes the image is a sign from above.

The couple is selling the pancake on eBay with an opening bid of $500.

-- 
dep

The idea, or at any rate the ideal, of the thing called a vow is
fairly obvious.  It is to combine the fixity that goes with finality
with the self-respect that only goes with freedom.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
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From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Fri Feb 10 07:38:24 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Fri Feb 10 07:38:02 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] krauthammer makes the point
Message-ID: <200602100738.24530.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/09/AR2006020901434_pf.html

Curse of the Moderates


By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, February 10, 2006; A19


As much of the Islamic world erupts in a studied frenzy over the Danish 
Muhammad cartoons, there are voices of reason being heard on both 
sides. Some Islamic leaders and organizations, while endorsing the 
demonstrators' sense of grievance and sharing their outrage, speak out 
against using violence as a vehicle of expression. Their Western 
counterparts -- intellectuals, including most of the major newspapers 
in the United States -- are similarly balanced: While, of course, 
endorsing the principle of free expression, they criticize the Danish 
newspaper for abusing that right by publishing offensive cartoons, and 
they declare themselves opposed, in the name of religious sensitivity, 
to doing the same.

God save us from the voices of reason.

What passes for moderation in the Islamic community -- "I share your 
rage but don't torch that embassy" -- is nothing of the sort. It is 
simply a cynical way to endorse the goals of the mob without endorsing 
its means. It is fraudulent because, while pretending to uphold the 
principle of religious sensitivity, it is interested only in this 
instance of religious insensitivity.

Have any of these "moderates" ever protested the grotesque caricatures 
of Christians and, most especially, Jews that are broadcast throughout 
the Middle East on a daily basis? The sermons on Palestinian TV that 
refer to Jews as the sons of pigs and monkeys? The Syrian prime-time TV 
series that shows rabbis slaughtering a gentile boy to ritually consume 
his blood? The 41-part (!) series on Egyptian TV based on that 
anti-Semitic czarist forgery (and inspiration of the Nazis), "The 
Protocols of the Elders of Zion," showing the Jews to be engaged in a 
century-old conspiracy to control the world?

A true Muslim moderate is one who protests desecrations of all faiths. 
Those who don't are not moderates but hypocrites, opportunists and 
agents for the rioters, merely using different means to advance the 
same goal: to impose upon the West, with its traditions of freedom of 
speech, a set of taboos that is exclusive to the Islamic faith. These 
are not defenders of religion but Muslim supremacists trying to force 
their dictates upon the liberal West.

And these "moderates" are aided and abetted by Western "moderates" who 
publish pictures of the Virgin Mary covered with elephant dung and 
celebrate the "Piss Christ" (a crucifix sitting in a jar of urine) as 
art deserving public subsidy, but who are seized with a sudden 
religious sensitivity when the subject is Muhammad.

Had they not been so hypocritical, one might defend their refusal to 
republish these cartoons on the grounds that news value can sometimes 
be trumped by good taste and sensitivity. After all, on grounds of 
basic decency, American newspapers generally -- and correctly -- do not 
publish pictures of dead bodies, whatever their news value.

There is a "sensitivity" argument for not having published the cartoons 
in the first place, back in September when they first appeared in that 
Danish newspaper. But it is not September. It is February. The cartoons 
have been published, and the newspaper, the publishers and Denmark 
itself have come under savage attack. After multiple arsons, 
devastating boycotts, and threats to cut off hands and heads, the issue 
is no longer news value, i.e., whether a newspaper needs to publish 
them to inform the audience about what is going on. The issue now is 
solidarity.

The mob is trying to dictate to Western newspapers, indeed Western 
governments, what is a legitimate subject for discussion and 
caricature. The cartoons do not begin to approach the artistic level of 
Salman Rushdie's prose, but that's not the point. The point is who 
decides what can be said and what can be drawn within the precincts of 
what we quaintly think of as the free world.

The mob has turned this into a test case for freedom of speech in the 
West. The German, French and Italian newspapers that republished these 
cartoons did so not to inform but to defy -- to declare that they will 
not be intimidated by the mob.

What is at issue is fear. The unspoken reason many newspapers do not 
want to republish is not sensitivity but simple fear. They know what 
happened to Theo van Gogh, who made a film about the Islamic treatment 
of women and got a knife through the chest with an Islamist manifesto 
attached.

The worldwide riots and burnings are instruments of intimidation, 
reminders of van Gogh's fate. The Islamic "moderates" are the mob's 
agents and interpreters, warning us not to do this again. And the 
Western "moderates" are their terrified collaborators who say: Don't 
worry, we won't. It's those Danes. We're clean. Spare us. Please.

letters@charleskrauthammer.com
-- 
dep

Most modern freedom is at root fear. It is not so much that we are too
bold to endure rules; it is rather that we are too timid to endure
responsibilities.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Fri Feb 10 07:48:20 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dennis e. powell)
Date: Fri Feb 10 07:48:03 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] imagine the coverage . . .
Message-ID: <200602100748.20389.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

. . . this story would be receiving if it had happened at a mosque:

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/local/scn-sa-grapejuice2feb10,0,4713060.story?coll=stam-news-local-headlines

Church juice was poisoned, police say
  	
By Donna Porstner
Staff Writer

Published February 10 2006

DARIEN -- The grape juice that sickened 40 people at a Darien church 
Sunday was intentionally poisoned, police said yesterday.

"We have a crime. We just don't know what the motive is," Darien Police 
Capt. Fred Komm said. He said the juice was likely poisoned at the 
church.
  
Members of the congregation reported a burning sensation in their 
throats after drinking less than a half-ounce near the end of the 
Calvary Baptist Church's 11 a.m. service. Five people who became 
nauseated and started vomiting were taken to area hospitals.

No one was seriously injured.

A deacon purchased the 64-ounce container of Welch's purple grape juice 
Saturday at the CVS Pharmacy, a few doors down from the church at 988 
Post Road.

Preliminary test results revealed the contaminant was foreign to the 
manufacturing process, ruling out that it could have entered the bottle 
at the Welch's factory in Massachusetts, Komm said. . . .
-- 
dep

A citizen can hardly distinguish between a tax and a fine, except that
the fine is generally much lighter.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Fri Feb 10 14:42:58 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Feb 10 14:44:14 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Sistani Nobel?
Message-ID: <43ECECC2.5080608@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

>From NRO:

-=snip=-

Ayatollah Sistani has called the publication of the cartoons a
"horrific action," not surprisingly. But he also has condemned the
"misguided and oppressive" Muslims who "have exploited this . . . to
spread poison and revive old hatreds with new methods." They, he
continued, project "a distorted and dark image of the faith of
justice, love, and brotherhood." In a better world, Sistani would have
a Nobel Peace Prize. This is hereby a call for someone out there who
is eligible to make a nomination ? a category including congressmen
and professors ? to make the nomination.

http://nationalreview.com/week/editors200602101140.asp

-=snip=-

Discuss.

Give reasons for your answer. Neatness counts. Use extra sheets of
paper if needed.


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Fri Feb 10 15:09:46 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Fri Feb 10 15:11:09 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The French Roar: "Who Woulda Thunk?"
Message-ID: <20060210200956.RTLI8484.centrmmtao02.cox.net@enigmaster>

France secretly upgrades capacity of nuclear arsenal

? Modification increases range of missiles
? Altitude bomb to knock out electronic systems

Kim Willsher in Paris
Friday February 10, 2006
The Guardian

France has secretly modified its nuclear arsenal to increase the strike 
range and accuracy of its weapons. The move comes weeks after President 
Jacques Chirac warned that states which threatened the country could 
face the "ultimate warning" of a nuclear retaliation.

A military source quoted yesterday by the Lib?ration newspaper claimed 
France had tinkered with its nuclear weapons to improve their strike 
capability and make this threat more credible.

The source said there had been two major changes: the bombs can now be 
fired at high altitude to create an "electromagnetic impulsion" to 
destroy the enemy's computer and communications systems; and the number 
of nuclear warheads has been reduced to increase the missiles' range and 
precision.

During his surprise speech, which was made in January, President Chirac 
said: "The number of nuclear warheads has been reduced in certain of the 
missiles in our submarines".

Military experts said this was not a step towards disarmament, but a 
move to improve the performance of the weapons. Until now each submarine 
carried 16 French-made M45 missiles, each fitted with six nuclear 
warheads. After being fired, each warhead would separate to hit a 
different target, in effect giving each submarine 96 nuclear bombs.

In reducing the number of warheads, down to one per missile in some 
cases, the weapon is lighter and has a longer range. It can also be 
targeted more accurately.

Lib?ration speculates that while potential targets are "secret", it is 
clear they include the Middle East or Asia, and that its military 
contacts suggest the changes are aimed at adding "flexibility" to 
France's nuclear deterrent.

"These evolutions are aimed at better taking into account the psychology 
of the enemy," defence minister Mich?le Alliot-Marie said after 
President Chirac's warning in January.

In a speech to MPs, she added: "A potential enemy may think that France, 
given its principles, might hesitate to use the entire force of its 
nuclear arsenal against civilian populations.

"Our country has modified its capacity for action and from now on has 
the possibility to target the control centres of an eventual enemy."

French government sources said the president's speech, given at a 
nuclear submarine base in Brittany, was not targeted specifically at 
Iran - despite Tehran's decision to continue its nuclear programme - or 
at individual terrorist organisations, but at countries that posed a 
direct threat to France itself.

It is also seen as an attempt to justify the more than ?3.5bn (?2.4bn) a 
year France spends to maintain its estimated 300-350 nuclear weapons 
more than a decade after the end of the cold war.

"The ultimate warning restores the principle of dissuasion," the 
military source told Lib?ration. The president is not talking about a 
choice between an apocalypse or nothing at all."

The paper says according to its information "ultimate warning" could 
take two new forms.

The most demonstrative would be to fire a relatively weak warhead into a 
deserted zone far from centres of power and habitation. The more radical 
option would be to explode a bomb at an extremely high altitude with the 
aim of creating a brief but enormously strong electromagnetic field 
which would disable or destroy all non-protected electronic systems in 
the area.

During the cold war France's "ultimate threat" involved firing nuclear 
bombs into Soviet military divisions and large cities.






From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Fri Feb 10 15:49:15 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Fri Feb 10 15:54:09 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd:  A Leftist at Play
Message-ID: <20060210204925.PZAE4002.centrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================



Madonna Attempts to Insert Her Head Where It Belongs



===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


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From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Fri Feb 10 21:37:56 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Feb 10 21:38:15 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Question and answer
Message-ID: <43ED4E04.8040002@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Q. Can a society built on religious tolerance accommodate one built on
religious intolerance?

A. "...the care of souls cannot belong to the civil magistrate,
because his power consists only in outward force; but true and
saving religion consists in the inward persuasion of the mind,
without which nothing can be acceptable to God. And such is the
nature of the understanding, that it cannot be compelled to the
belief of anything by outward force...It is only light and evidence
that can work a change in men's opinions; which light can in no
manner proceed from corporal sufferings, or any other outward
penalties."  John Locke _A Letter Concerning Toleration_ 1689.


-- 
Bob Bernstein
From sweeks1951 at netzero.net  Sat Feb 11 01:42:06 2006
From: sweeks1951 at netzero.net (Steve Weeks)
Date: Sat Feb 11 01:43:23 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Turin Greets Katie Couric
In-Reply-To: <47964.70.172.219.12.1139434421.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIAEGOCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>

Based only on what I saw tonight, Bode Miller is an arrogant,
legend-in-his-own-mind, ass-hole.

-----Original Message-----
From: os2-right-stuff-l-bounces@jtan.com
[mailto:os2-right-stuff-l-bounces@jtan.com]On Behalf Of Bob Bernstein
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 1:34 PM
To: Mike Riddle; Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,and life.
Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Turin Greets Katie Couric


On Wed, February 8, 2006 3:02 pm, Mike Riddle said:

> Surf to http://www.drudgereport.com/flash8cc.htm and see how Turin
> (or the birds of Turin) greeted the "always perky Katie Couric" today
> on Today.

So perky Katie is now covering olympic competition? Is that her new
area of expertise?

BTW: keep an eye on New Hampshire's favorite son Bode Miller in the
downhill...Go Bode!

--
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

_______________________________________________
os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l


From kari.m.jackson at verizon.net  Sat Feb 11 10:48:38 2006
From: kari.m.jackson at verizon.net (Kari Jackson)
Date: Sat Feb 11 10:49:27 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] looks more like mohammed (peace be upon his
	batter) to me
In-Reply-To: <200602092302.01347.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
References: <200602092302.01347.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060211104811.01ed6170@verizon.net>


Isn't that Charles Manson?

At 2/9/2006 11:02 PM, dep wrote:
>http://www.local6.com/news/6880241/detail.html
>
>Couple Claims Jesus Appeared On Pancake

Kari Jackson
White Plains, NY 


From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Sat Feb 11 13:15:52 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sat Feb 11 13:16:31 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Turin Greets Katie Couric
In-Reply-To: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIAEGOCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>
References: <47964.70.172.219.12.1139434421.squirrel@legomenon.org>
	<PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIAEGOCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <59124.70.172.219.12.1139681752.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Sat, February 11, 2006 1:42 am, Steve Weeks said:

> Based only on what I saw tonight, Bode Miller is an arrogant,
> legend-in-his-own-mind, ass-hole.

I have absolutely no doubt that your assessment is one hundred percent
correct. I missed what you saw -- I've never so much as laid eyes on
this guy -- and now I am glad about that. My brother and his wife live
just above Franconia Notch, NH, and are both avid skiers, and they
tend to read the sort of thing you saw as just "pumped up," or "really
competitive." Thanks for the information, and now I can give up the
pretence of seeming to give a rat's patoot about this guy, just to be
"supportive" of my brother!

(I have similar feelings about people who get excited about ROCK
CLIMBING.)

-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Sat Feb 11 13:31:16 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Sat Feb 11 13:32:31 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Another New Law Firm
Message-ID: <20060211183126.CEES4002.centrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster>

There's another new law firm in town.  Here's their ad:



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From sjkleinsr at cox.net  Sat Feb 11 13:50:57 2006
From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.)
Date: Sat Feb 11 13:51:30 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Another New Law Firm
Message-ID: <20060211185115.FYNG8484.centrmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>

Thats a keeper, thanks Mike.
> 
> From: "Mike Riddle" <mriddle@papillion.ne.us>
> 
> There's another new law firm in town.  Here's their ad:
> 


Stan Klein, Sr.
Homeless, live in a truck
Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black

From kari.m.jackson at verizon.net  Sun Feb 12 09:04:07 2006
From: kari.m.jackson at verizon.net (Kari Jackson)
Date: Sun Feb 12 09:04:46 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 23, Issue 46
In-Reply-To: <43DAF337.3000002@operagost.com>
References: <200601271700.k0RH02s9007581@mailman.jtan.com>
	<43DAF337.3000002@operagost.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060127233942.01e5a1d8@verizon.net>


Almost everyone who is against "Reaganomics" is against it for that 
same reason - because they think it is harmful to the poor and middle 
classes.  It doesn't make them idiots.  There are just as many smart 
people among them, as there are among us.  The difference between 
them and us is not idiocy or intelligence.  It is only one thing:  It 
is whether or not someone has explained to them, in a way they can 
understand, that it is DIFFICULT TO PREVENT wealth from "trickling 
down" to those very people they're worried about, if only 
governmental interference were to be removed from the equation and 
free enterprise were allowed to work as it would without such interference.

Not having had the opportunity or reason to think about that for long 
enough (after having been given the basic economic knowledge 
necessary for grasping it) to realize how simple it is, does not make 
one an idiot.  It just means they've been busy thinking about other 
things and never thought about economics.

It SEEMS OBVIOUS, at first glance, that the existence of rich people 
means other people will be poorer.  If you never THINK about it 
(doesn't mean you're stupid, JUST NOT THINKING ABOUT THAT SUBJECT) 
and just accept the "obvious" as truth, the way all your other 
Democrat cronies do, then you never realize how completely false it 
is, and you're a Democrat.  Some Democrats are idiots, yes, but 
thinking that rich people make other people poor does NOT MAKE one an 
idiot.  It is THE NATURAL BELIEF for anyone who doesn't have a CLUE 
about economics, WHICH IS MOST PEOPLE.

Calling them idiots won't get them to realize the truth.  Giving them 
the basic building blocks of knowledge to be able to understand, 
might.  In my case, I'm an avid reader, so all Dennis had to do was 
give me a copy of Atlas Shrugged and I did the rest myself; poof, I 
was a Republican (I had already been leaning a little bit in that 
direction, but I had no idea why; after reading that book I sure knew 
why)!  In the case of people who don't read much, you sure as heck 
can't give them an 1168-page book, so I don't know how to set them up 
for the understanding, but treating them like idiots (or especially 
telling them that they are) sure isn't going to do it.


At 1/27/2006 11:29 PM, Stephen Eickhoff wrote:
>I enjoyed the novel, except for this single, stunning incongruity:
>
>"Most of our neighbors in Fremont were bus drivers, policemen, gas 
>station attendants, and unwed mothers collecting welfare, exactly 
>the sort of blue-collar people who would soon suffocate under the 
>pillow Reaganomics pressed to their faces."
>
>Either it's the fictional character speaking, or the author is a 
>flat-out idiot.

Kari Jackson
White Plains, NY  


From prather.js at verizon.net  Sun Feb 12 09:20:50 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sun Feb 12 09:21:46 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 23, Issue 46
In-Reply-To: <7.0.0.16.0.20060127233942.01e5a1d8@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <0IUK004VCVUULZN1@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 09:04:07 -0500, Kari Jackson wrote:

>At 1/27/2006 11:29 PM, Stephen Eickhoff wrote:
>>I enjoyed the novel, except for this single, stunning incongruity:
>>
>>"Most of our neighbors in Fremont were bus drivers, policemen, gas 
>>station attendants, and unwed mothers collecting welfare, exactly 
>>the sort of blue-collar people who would soon suffocate under the 
>>pillow Reaganomics pressed to their faces."
>>
>>Either it's the fictional character speaking, or the author is a 
>>flat-out idiot.

Stephen, I gave you a rather flip response to your
comment/question.  I've been thinking about it more.

It seems to me that the paragraph is totally out of place in the
context of that book.  The book constantly refers to people who
were busily out there taking care of themselves and their
families - very independent minded people.  There were also
direct references to people rejecting welfare out of a sense of
pride.  

Dennis, you know publishing.  Is it possible that this paragraph
was forced on the author by a leftist editor or publisher?


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb 12 10:10:33 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sun Feb 12 10:09:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 23, Issue 46
In-Reply-To: <0IUK004VCVUULZN1@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IUK004VCVUULZN1@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602121010.33918.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Jerry Prather:

| It seems to me that the paragraph is totally out of place in the
| context of that book.  The book constantly refers to people who
| were busily out there taking care of themselves and their
| families - very independent minded people.  There were also
| direct references to people rejecting welfare out of a sense of
| pride.
|
| Dennis, you know publishing.  Is it possible that this paragraph
| was forced on the author by a leftist editor or publisher?

for some reason unknown to me, i seem not to have gotten messages 
leading up to this morning's exchange, so my response is context-free.

that having been said, sure it's possible. in my experience, this often 
happens in periodicals; i did a magazine piece once which so suffered 
from the fine italian hand that i ended up submitting -- and insisting 
upon publication -- of a correction that ran several pages. in my view, 
if editors want to write, they ought to write, but when editing they 
ought to leave other people's stuff the hell alone except as to matters 
of grammar, spelling, clarity, and, when needed, challenging the author 
as to meaning. after which the author needs to work his way out of it.

now. book contracts are written with the advantage going to the 
publisher -- it's within the publisher's power to insist on anything. 
absolutely anything. (the author may withdraw the submission and return 
the advance; in some draconian contracts he may even have to pay the 
publisher for the time and effort put into the withdrawn item, but this 
doesn't very often happen.)

it's further possible that the editor, annoyed as they often are at 
being editors, might either inject his own notions or what he supposes 
the publishers notions are into the book. i think it would make more 
sense for there to be a convention: if the editor doesn't like the 
book, he ought to give it to someone else or insist on an alan smithee 
credit. ("alan smithee" is a convention adopted by the directors guild; 
if after finishing a project a director decides it sucks, he can use 
the name alan smithee in the directorial credit instead of his own.)

i cannot of course know the details in this case; however, the paragraph 
is moronic. it assumes facts not in evidence. it assumes facts that 
*cannot* be in evidence, because those facts do not exist.

-- 
dep

I do not ask them to assume the worth of my creed or any creed;
and I could wish they did not so often ask me to assume the worth
of their worthless, poisonous plutocratic modern society.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sun Feb 12 11:34:54 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Sun Feb 12 11:43:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 23,
	Issue 46
Message-ID: <20060212164027.QEKN17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

> Actualy it dose what do you think the D realy stands for?
> From: Kari Jackson <kari.m.jackson@verizon.net>
> Date: 2006/02/12 Sun AM 09:04:07 EST
> To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,	and life."
> 	<os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> CC: os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 23, Issue 46
> 
> 
> Almost everyone who is against "Reaganomics" is against it for that 
> same reason - because they think it is harmful to the poor and middle 
> classes.  It doesn't make them idiots.  There are just as many smart 
> people among them, as there are among us.  The difference between 
> them and us is not idiocy or intelligence.  It is only one thing:  It 
> is whether or not someone has explained to them, in a way they can 
> understand, that it is DIFFICULT TO PREVENT wealth from "trickling 
> down" to those very people they're worried about, if only 
> governmental interference were to be removed from the equation and 
> free enterprise were allowed to work as it would without such interference.
> 
> Not having had the opportunity or reason to think about that for long 
> enough (after having been given the basic economic knowledge 
> necessary for grasping it) to realize how simple it is, does not make 
> one an idiot.  It just means they've been busy thinking about other 
> things and never thought about economics.
> 
> It SEEMS OBVIOUS, at first glance, that the existence of rich people 
> means other people will be poorer.  If you never THINK about it 
> (doesn't mean you're stupid, JUST NOT THINKING ABOUT THAT SUBJECT) 
> and just accept the "obvious" as truth, the way all your other 
> Democrat cronies do, then you never realize how completely false it 
> is, and you're a Democrat.  Some Democrats are idiots, yes, but 
> thinking that rich people make other people poor does NOT MAKE one an 
> idiot.  It is THE NATURAL BELIEF for anyone who doesn't have a CLUE 
> about economics, WHICH IS MOST PEOPLE.
> 
> Calling them idiots won't get them to realize the truth.  Giving them 
> the basic building blocks of knowledge to be able to understand, 
> might.  In my case, I'm an avid reader, so all Dennis had to do was 
> give me a copy of Atlas Shrugged and I did the rest myself; poof, I 
> was a Republican (I had already been leaning a little bit in that 
> direction, but I had no idea why; after reading that book I sure knew 
> why)!  In the case of people who don't read much, you sure as heck 
> can't give them an 1168-page book, so I don't know how to set them up 
> for the understanding, but treating them like idiots (or especially 
> telling them that they are) sure isn't going to do it.
> 
> 
> At 1/27/2006 11:29 PM, Stephen Eickhoff wrote:
> >I enjoyed the novel, except for this single, stunning incongruity:
> >
> >"Most of our neighbors in Fremont were bus drivers, policemen, gas 
> >station attendants, and unwed mothers collecting welfare, exactly 
> >the sort of blue-collar people who would soon suffocate under the 
> >pillow Reaganomics pressed to their faces."
> >
> >Either it's the fictional character speaking, or the author is a 
> >flat-out idiot.
> 
> Kari Jackson
> White Plains, NY  
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb 12 12:02:18 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sun Feb 12 12:01:49 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 23, Issue 46
In-Reply-To: <20060212164027.QEKN17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
References: <20060212164027.QEKN17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <200602121202.18632.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:
| > Actualy it dose what do you think the D realy stands for?

death to topposters.
-- 
dep

Too much capitalism does not mean too many capitalists, but too few
capitalists.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sun Feb 12 13:14:54 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca)
Date: Sun Feb 12 13:15:50 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 23, Issue 46
In-Reply-To: <200602121202.18632.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
References: <20060212164027.QEKN17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
	<200602121202.18632.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <200602121014.54497.spmaiorca@cox.net>

I thought it meant dumb
On Sunday 12 February 2006 9:02 am, dep wrote:
> quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:
> | > Actualy it dose what do you think the D realy stands for?
>
> death to topposters.
From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Sun Feb 12 13:52:33 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Sun Feb 12 13:52:50 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 23, Issue 46
In-Reply-To: <200602121014.54497.spmaiorca@cox.net>
Message-ID: <200602121852.k1CIqY85017502@oasis.novia.net>

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 10:14:54 -0800, S.P. Maiorca wrote:

>I thought it meant dumb
>On Sunday 12 February 2006 9:02 am, dep wrote:
>> quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:
>> | > Actualy it dose what do you think the D realy stands for?
>>
>> death to topposters.

Okay, "Death to Dumb Top Posters."

(Even if my editor does insist that's an oxymoron.)





From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sun Feb 12 14:55:43 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Sun Feb 12 14:58:53 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 23,
	Issue 46
Message-ID: <20060212195441.KHTE26964.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>


> 
> From: "S.P. Maiorca" <spmaiorca@cox.net>
> Date: 2006/02/12 Sun AM 10:14:54 PST
> To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life." <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 23, Issue 46
> 
> I thought it meant dumb
> On Sunday 12 February 2006 9:02 am, dep wrote:
> > quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:
> > | > Actualy it dose what do you think the D realy stands for?
> >
> > death to topposters.
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l



OK so Im now bottom posting and my claim was that Democrat and Dumb were interchangable.

> 

From kari.m.jackson at verizon.net  Sun Feb 12 15:59:58 2006
From: kari.m.jackson at verizon.net (Kari Jackson)
Date: Sun Feb 12 15:59:53 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol  23,
	Issue 46
In-Reply-To: <20060212195441.KHTE26964.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@[172.18.180. 8]>
References: <20060212195441.KHTE26964.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <7.0.0.16.0.20060212155819.01cf1450@verizon.net>

Which is exactly the attitude which will never have the slightest 
hope of convincing anyone of anything (except your immaturity).

At 2/12/2006 02:55 PM, spmaiorca@cox.net wrote:

>OK so Im now bottom posting and my claim was that Democrat and Dumb 
>were interchangable.

Kari Jackson
White Plains, NY 


From sjkleinsr at cox.net  Sun Feb 12 16:06:23 2006
From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.)
Date: Sun Feb 12 16:06:53 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
Message-ID: <20060212210623.JETP8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>

Rut  Roh!!! Kari is stiring the cauldron.
> 
> From: Kari Jackson <kari.m.jackson@verizon.net>
> 
> Which is exactly the attitude which will never have the slightest 
> hope of convincing anyone of anything (except your immaturity).
> 
> At 2/12/2006 02:55 PM, spmaiorca@cox.net wrote:
> 
> >OK so Im now bottom posting and my claim was that Democrat and Dumb 
> >were interchangable.
> 


Stan Klein, Sr.
Homeless, live in a truck
Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Sun Feb 12 17:30:15 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sun Feb 12 17:30:55 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
In-Reply-To: <20060212210623.JETP8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>
References: <20060212210623.JETP8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>
Message-ID: <35452.70.172.219.12.1139783415.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Sun, February 12, 2006 4:06 pm, Stan Klein, Sr. said:

> Rut  Roh!!! Kari is stiring the cauldron.

Kewl, huh?

-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From sjkleinsr at cox.net  Sun Feb 12 17:37:30 2006
From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.)
Date: Sun Feb 12 17:43:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
Message-ID: <20060212223731.VFXO5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>

Ayup!!
> 
> From: "Bob Bernstein" <zoidberg@legomenon.org>
> Date: 2006/02/12 Sun PM 05:30:15 EST
> To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life." <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
> 
> 
> On Sun, February 12, 2006 4:06 pm, Stan Klein, Sr. said:
> 
> > Rut  Roh!!! Kari is stiring the cauldron.
> 
> Kewl, huh?
> 
> -- 
> Bob Bernstein
> 
> To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
> Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
> To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
> That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;
> 
>          Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

Stan Klein, Sr.
Homeless, live in a truck
Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black

From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Sun Feb 12 18:13:27 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:14:55 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
In-Reply-To: <35452.70.172.219.12.1139783415.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <200602122313.k1CNDSlK010578@oasis.novia.net>

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 17:30:15 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>On Sun, February 12, 2006 4:06 pm, Stan Klein, Sr. said:

>> Rut  Roh!!! Kari is stiring the cauldron.

>Kewl, huh?

Is that because to be stirring the pot she has to be in the kitchen, or 
because she has reappeared from the either, or . . . ?





From prather.js at verizon.net  Sun Feb 12 18:20:31 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:21:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
In-Reply-To: <200602122313.k1CNDSlK010578@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <0IUL00LFJKUEBPA1@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 17:13:27 -0600, Mike Riddle wrote:

>On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 17:30:15 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:
>
>>On Sun, February 12, 2006 4:06 pm, Stan Klein, Sr. said:
>
>>> Rut  Roh!!! Kari is stiring the cauldron.
>
>>Kewl, huh?
>
>Is that because to be stirring the pot she has to be in the kitchen, or 
>because she has reappeared from the either, or . . . ?

Hey, I'm happy that she chimes in every once in awhile!

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From operagost at operagost.com  Sun Feb 12 18:25:32 2006
From: operagost at operagost.com (Stephen Eickhoff)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:26:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 24, Issue 27
In-Reply-To: <200602122321.k1CNLvVc027049@mailman.jtan.com>
References: <200602122321.k1CNLvVc027049@mailman.jtan.com>
Message-ID: <43EFC3EC.2070508@operagost.com>

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2006 16:06:23 -0500
From: "Stan Klein, Sr." <sjkleinsr@cox.net>
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,	and life."
	<os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
Message-ID:
	<20060212210623.JETP8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 >Rut  Roh!!! Kari is stiring the cauldron.

Another top-posting infidel!

 > >
 > > From: Kari Jackson <kari.m.jackson@verizon.net>
 > >
 > > Which is exactly the attitude which will never have the slightest
 > > hope of convincing anyone of anything (except your immaturity).
 > >
 > > At 2/12/2006 02:55 PM, spmaiorca@cox.net wrote:
 > >
 >> > >OK so Im now bottom posting and my claim was that Democrat and Dumb
 >> > >were interchangable.
 > >

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sun Feb 12 18:32:18 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:34:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol  23,
	Issue 46
Message-ID: <20060212233247.DQAE15695.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

I am being immature..I admit it....we can't take life to seriously it's only temporary.
-Patrick
> 
> From: Kari Jackson <kari.m.jackson@verizon.net>
> Date: 2006/02/12 Sun PM 12:59:58 PST
> To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,	and life."
> 	<os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> CC: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,	and life."
> 	<os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol  23,
> 	Issue 46
> 
> Which is exactly the attitude which will never have the slightest 
> hope of convincing anyone of anything (except your immaturity).
> 
> At 2/12/2006 02:55 PM, spmaiorca@cox.net wrote:
> 
> >OK so Im now bottom posting and my claim was that Democrat and Dumb 
> >were interchangable.
> 
> Kari Jackson
> White Plains, NY 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sun Feb 12 18:33:42 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:42:55 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
Message-ID: <20060212233350.XCHJ6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

Bottom posters are bottom dwellers
> 
> From: "Stan Klein, Sr." <sjkleinsr@cox.net>
> Date: 2006/02/12 Sun PM 01:06:23 PST
> To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life." <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
> 
> Rut  Roh!!! Kari is stiring the cauldron.
> > 
> > From: Kari Jackson <kari.m.jackson@verizon.net>
> > 
> > Which is exactly the attitude which will never have the slightest 
> > hope of convincing anyone of anything (except your immaturity).
> > 
> > At 2/12/2006 02:55 PM, spmaiorca@cox.net wrote:
> > 
> > >OK so Im now bottom posting and my claim was that Democrat and Dumb 
> > >were interchangable.
> > 
> 
> 
> Stan Klein, Sr.
> Homeless, live in a truck
> Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black
> 
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

Death to Topposters

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb 12 18:45:16 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:43:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol  23,
	Issue 46
In-Reply-To: <20060212233247.DQAE15695.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
References: <20060212233247.DQAE15695.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <200602121845.16507.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:
| I am being immature..I admit it....we can't take life to seriously
| it's only temporary. -Patrick

even more so for top posters.
-- 
dep

Instead of invading the family with the blundering bureaucracy that
mismanages the public services, it would be far more philosophical to
work the reform the other way round.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb 12 18:46:59 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:45:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
In-Reply-To: <200602122313.k1CNDSlK010578@oasis.novia.net>
References: <200602122313.k1CNDSlK010578@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <200602121847.00055.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Mike Riddle:

| Is that because to be stirring the pot she has to be in the kitchen,
| or because she has reappeared from the either, or . . . ?

a punctuational nit: it should be "from the either/or . . . ?"

-- 
dep

What is called matriarchy is simply moral anarchy, in which the mother
alone remains fixed because all the fathers are fugitive and
irresponsible.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From drepouille at hotmail.com  Sun Feb 12 18:45:21 2006
From: drepouille at hotmail.com (Dana Repouille)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:50:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol  23,
	Issue 46
In-Reply-To: <20060212233247.DQAE15695.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <BAY105-DAV10DEB9A33F752056861767DA040@phx.gbl>

Ad hominem never makes a good argument -- not even an interesting argument.
From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Sun Feb 12 18:53:51 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:54:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
In-Reply-To: <200602121847.00055.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <200602122353.k1CNrpKX022217@oasis.novia.net>

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 18:46:59 -0500, dep wrote:

>quoth Mike Riddle:

>| Is that because to be stirring the pot she has to be in the kitchen,
>| or because she has reappeared from the either, or . . . ?

>a punctuational nit: it should be "from the either/or . . . ?"

More likely "from the ether...?"




From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sun Feb 12 18:56:26 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:58:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol  23,
	Issue 46
Message-ID: <20060212235541.VJCT17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>


> 
> From: "Dana Repouille" <drepouille@hotmail.com>
> Date: 2006/02/12 Sun PM 03:45:21 PST
> To: "'Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life.'" <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: RE: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol  23,
> 	Issue 46
> 
> Ad hominem never makes a good argument -- not even an interesting argument.
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> Agrreed on that....now where are we again?

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sun Feb 12 18:56:20 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Sun Feb 12 18:58:58 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol  23,
	Issue 46
Message-ID: <20060212235638.KAQC20875.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>


> 
> From: "Dana Repouille" <drepouille@hotmail.com>
> Date: 2006/02/12 Sun PM 03:45:21 PST
> To: "'Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life.'" <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: RE: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol  23,
> 	Issue 46
> 
> Ad hominem never makes a good argument -- not even an interesting argument.
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> Agrreed on that....now where are we again?

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sun Feb 12 18:17:52 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Sun Feb 12 19:03:57 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
Message-ID: <20060212231619.DXVY17437.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

Bottom posters are bottom dwellers
> 
> From: "Stan Klein, Sr." <sjkleinsr@cox.net>
> Date: 2006/02/12 Sun PM 02:37:30 PST
> To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life." <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: Re: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
> 
> Ayup!!
> > 
> > From: "Bob Bernstein" <zoidberg@legomenon.org>
> > Date: 2006/02/12 Sun PM 05:30:15 EST
> > To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> > 	and life." <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> > Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
> > 
> > 
> > On Sun, February 12, 2006 4:06 pm, Stan Klein, Sr. said:
> > 
> > > Rut  Roh!!! Kari is stiring the cauldron.
> > 
> > Kewl, huh?
> > 
> > -- 
> > Bob Bernstein
> > 
> > To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
> > Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
> > To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
> > That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;
> > 
> >          Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> > os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> > http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> > 
> 
> Stan Klein, Sr.
> Homeless, live in a truck
> Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black
> 
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> Death to topposters

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb 12 19:04:15 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sun Feb 12 19:05:04 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: abandoned reptile carcasses (was something
	else)
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-DAV10DEB9A33F752056861767DA040@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-DAV10DEB9A33F752056861767DA040@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200602121904.15906.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Dana Repouille:
| Ad hominem never makes a good argument -- not even an interesting
| argument. 

sure it does. read mark twain's "journamism in tennessee."

http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/1562/

an excerpt:

I took the manuscript. It was scarred with erasures and interlineations
till its mother wouldn't have known it if it had had one. It now read as
follows:

SPIRIT OF THE TENNESSEE PRESS

The inveterate liars of the Semi-Weekly Earthquake are evidently
endeavoring to palm off upon a noble and chivalrous people another
of their vile and brutal falsehoods with regard to that most
glorious conception of the nineteenth century, the Ballyhack
railroad. The idea that Buzzardville was to be left off at one side
originated in their own fulsome brains--or rather in the settlings
which they regard as brains. They had better, swallow this lie if
they want to save their abandoned reptile carcasses the cowhiding
they so richly deserve.

That ass, Blossom, of the Higginsville Thunderbolt and Battle Cry of
Freedom, is down here again sponging at the Van Buren.

We observe that the besotted blackguard of the Mud Springs Morning
Howl is giving out, with his usual propensity for lying, that Van
Werter is not elected. The heaven-born mission of journalism is to
disseminate truth; to eradicate error; to educate, refine, and
elevate the tone of public morals and manners, and make all men more
gentle, more virtuous, more charitable, and in all ways better, and
holier, and happier; and yet this blackhearted scoundrel degrades
his great office persistently to the dissemination of falsehood,
calumny, vituperation, and vulgarity.

Blathersville wants a Nicholson pavement--it wants a jail and a
poorhouse more. The idea of a pavement in a one-horse town composed
of two gin-mills, a blacksmith shop, and that mustard-plaster of a
newspaper, the Daily Hurrah! The crawling insect, Buckner, who
edits the Hurrah, is braying about his business with his customary
imbecility, and imagining that he is talking sense.


"Now that is the way to write--peppery and to the point. Mush-and-milk
journalism gives me the fan-tods."

-- 
dep

It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be
unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From prather.js at verizon.net  Sun Feb 12 19:10:03 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sun Feb 12 19:10:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol  23,
	Issue 46
In-Reply-To: <20060212233247.DQAE15695.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <0IUL0033MN4QVAT6@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 15:32:18 -0800, spmaiorca@cox.net wrote:

>we can't take life to seriously it's only temporary.

You got that right!!!

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From prather.js at verizon.net  Sun Feb 12 19:18:13 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sun Feb 12 19:18:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: abandoned reptile carcasses (was something
	else)
In-Reply-To: <200602121904.15906.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <0IUL006NFNIDQ888@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 19:04:15 -0500, dep wrote:

>sure it does. read mark twain's "journamism in tennessee."
>
>http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/1562/
>
>an excerpt:
>
>I took the manuscript. It was scarred with erasures and interlineations
>till its mother wouldn't have known it if it had had one. It now read as
>follows:

Isn't this what I was talking about previously in reference to
the discussed paragraph from "The Kite Runner"?  

Don't worry about truth in journalism, just worry about paying
for the journalism...


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From prather.js at verizon.net  Sun Feb 12 20:03:23 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sun Feb 12 20:03:57 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
In-Reply-To: <20060212231619.DXVY17437.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <0IUL00EZDPLLCPK7@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sun, 12 Feb 2006 15:17:52 -0800, spmaiorca@cox.net wrote:

>Bottom posters are bottom dwellers

A plague on both your houses!!!

In my opinion, if anything is to be quoted upon, it should
follow in context.  And all stuff which is not pertinent should
be exorcised.  When you analyze my above statement, it comes
down to...

If the subject covers it, delete all else!

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From m.o.davis at gte.net  Sun Feb 12 21:14:57 2006
From: m.o.davis at gte.net (Mark Davis)
Date: Sun Feb 12 21:15:59 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Men and women
Message-ID: <C5CB99A0-FA70-48C8-A16C-8003913D0033@gte.net>

Found on usenet. Not sure of the validity of the attribution.

------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
-----------------


WOMEN SPEAK IN ESTROGEN AND MEN LISTEN IN TESTOSTERONE
======================================================

by Matt Groening
................


RELATIONSHIPS:
When a relationship ends, a woman will cry and pour her heart out to
her girlfriends, and she will write a poem titled "All Men Are Idiots".
Then she will get on with her life. A man has a little more trouble
letting go. Six months after the break-up, at 3:00 a.m. on a Saturday
night, he will call and say, "I just wanted to let you know you ruined
my life, and I'll never forgive you, and I hate you, and you're a total
floozy. But I want you to know that there's always a chance for us."
This is known as the "I Hate You / I Love You" drunken phone call, and
99% of all men have made at least once. There are community colleges
that offer courses to help men get over this need.

SEX:
Women prefer 30-40 minutes of foreplay. Men prefer 30-40 seconds of
foreplay. Men consider driving back to her place as part of the
foreplay.

MATURITY:
Women mature much faster than men. Most 17-year old females can
function as adults. Most 17-year old males are still trading baseball
cards and giving each other wedgies after gym class. This is why high
school romances rarely work out.

MAGAZINES:
Men's magazines often feature pictures of naked women. Women's
magazines also feature pictures of naked women. This is because the
female body is a beautiful work of art, while the male body is lumpy
and hairy and should not be seen by the light of day.
Men are turned on at the sight of a naked woman's body. Most naked men
elicit laughter from women.

HANDWRITING:
To their credit, men do not decorate their penmanship. They just
chicken-scratch. Women use scented, colored stationery and they dot
their "i's" with circles and hearts. Women use ridiculously large loops
in their "p's" and "g's". It is a royal pain to read a note from a
woman. Even when she's dumping you, she'll put a smiley face at the end
of the note!!!

BATHROOMS:
A man has six items in his bathroom-a toothbrush, toothpaste, shaving  
cream, razor,
a bar of Dial soap, and a towel from the Holiday Inn. The average
number of items in the typical woman's bathroom is 437.
A man would not be able to identify most of these items.

GROCERIES:
A woman makes a list of things she needs and then goes out to the store
and buys these things. A man waits till the only items left in his
fridge are half a lime and a beer. Then he goes grocery
shopping. He buys everything that looks good. By the time a man reaches
the checkout counter, his cart is packed tighter than the Clampett's
car on Beverly Hillbillies. Of course, this will not stop him from
going to the 10-items-or-less lane.

CATS:
Women love cats. Men say they love cats, but when women aren't looking,
men kick cats.

LAUNDRY:
Women do laundry every couple of days. A man will wear every article of
clothing he owns, including his surgical pants that were hip about
eight years ago, before he will do his laundry. When he is finally out
of clothes, he will wear a dirty sweatshirt inside out, rent a U-Haul
and take his mountain of clothes to the laundromat. Men always expect
to meet beautiful women at the laundromat. This is a myth perpetuated
by re-runs of old episodes of "Love, American Style."

THE TELEPHONE:
Men see the telephone as a communication tool. They use the telephone
to send short messages to other people. A woman can visit her
girlfriend for two weeks, and upon returning home, she will call the
same friend and they will talk for three hours.

RICHARD GERE:
Women like Richard Gere because he is sexy in a dangerous way.
Men hate Richard Gere because he reminds them of that slick guy who
works at the health club and dates only married women.

MADONNA:
Same as above, but reversed. Same reason.

LOCKER ROOMS:
In the locker room men talk about three things: money, football, and
women. They exaggerate about money, they don't know football nearly as
well as they think they do, and they fabricate stories about women.
Women talk about one thing in the locker-sex. And not in abstract
terms, either. They are extremely graphic and technical, and they never
lie.

MOVIES:
Every actress in the history of movies has had to do a nude scene.
This is because every movie in the history of movies has been produced
by a man. The only actor who has ever appeared nude in the movies is
Richard Gere. This is another reason why men hate him.

TIME:
When a woman says she'll be ready to go out in five more minutes, she's
using the same meaning of time as when a man says the football game
just has five minutes left. Neither of them is counting time outs,
commercials, or replays.

FRIENDS:
Women on a girl's night out talk the whole time. Men on a boy's night
out say about twenty words all night, most of which are "Pass the
Doritos or Got any more beer?"

RESTROOMS:
Men use restrooms for purely biological reasons. Women use restrooms as
social lounges. Men in a restrooms will never speak a word to each
other. Women who've never met will leave a restroom giggling together
like old friends. And never in the history of the world has a man
excused himself from a restaurant table by saying, "Hey, Tom, I was
just about to take a leak. Do you want to join me?"


-- 
Mark Davis
San Angelo, TX

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Mon Feb 13 01:21:39 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb 13 01:22:02 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] But, on the other hand...
Message-ID: <43F02573.9040604@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

The Wall Street Journal 		

Executive Power on Steroids
By RICHARD A. EPSTEIN
February 13, 2006; Page A16

President Bush's domestic surveillance program against al Qaeda has
spawned multiple controversies. Intelligence skeptics ask, for
example, whether the potential gains from snooping are worth the
hassle. Civil libertarians doubt whether the warrantless surveillance
and wiretaps can be squared with the Fourth Amendment. On both these
disputes, my sympathies run with the president. I support his efforts
to renew the Patriot Act; and I believe our first order of business
should be to retool the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA)
to meet the challenges of modern communications technology.

Yet the key legal struggles over domestic spying go not to its wisdom,
but to the thorny issue of whether the president has exceeded his
constitutional powers in disregarding FISA. He has.

The Constitution gives Congress the power to set policy; it gives to
the president the right, and the duty, to execute it. The president
claims first that he has secured the needed congressional blessing for
the NSA's domestic surveillance through the Authorization of Use of
Military Force Act, passed in the aftermath of Sept. 11, 2001. Not so.
AUMF does not contain one word that dislodges FISA, and the law
disfavors any "implied repeal" of major legislation. Right now, the
president can both hound al Qaeda and follow FISA requirements for
domestic warrants. If he wants to go further, he should seek explicit
congressional authorization.

The administration's more aggressive claim is that an "inherent
commander in chief power" lets the president act on his own. To see
why this claim fails, it is critical to set out -- they're short --
the precise provisions that implement the constitutional separation of
powers in matters of war and peace. First off, the Constitution gives
the Congress the power "to declare" war. Next, only Congress can
appropriate the funds to operate the land and naval forces. Most
critically for the spying dispute, Congress has the explicit power "to
make rules for the government and regulation of the land and naval
forces." It has similar powers for setting the standards (or
"discipline") for the state militia. Congress's power applies in both
peace and wartime, and is subject to no express limitations on the
nature and content of its general rules.

On the other side of the ledger, "[t]he President shall be Commander
in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia
when called into actual service of the United States." Note the word
"power" appears no where in this sentence. The operative verb is
"shall be."

The choice of words is not inadvertent. Later in the same section the
Constitution provides that the president "shall have the Power to
grant Reprieves and Pardons for offenses against the United States,
except in cases of impeachment," and the "Power, by and with the
Advice and consent of the Senate to make Treaties." Elsewhere the
president shall "receive" ambassadors and "require" reports from his
subordinates.

Words matter. Only powers allow for a change in legal status of the
persons over whom some power is directed. Thus the president's power
to grant reprieves and pardons is rightly described as "plenary,"
precisely because Congress has no stated power to hedge it in by
legislation, for example by declaring certain offenses unpardonable.
The president's power to make treaties is likewise plenary, but now
subject to the explicit check of Senatorial advice and consent. At no
time, however, can Congress send its own delegation off to negotiate
with Iraq.

So understood, subtly adding in some "inherent commander in chief
power" upsets a carefully wrought constitutional balance. Let the
president have plenary power over military affairs, then it becomes an
inevitable political tussle over whether his inherent power is
stronger than Congress's stated one. But why twist accurate
constitutional language to make a shambles of our basic governance
structure? Congress gets to set the general rules governing military
efforts. The Constitution does not confer the identical power on the
president.

This view does not reduce the commander-in chief-clause to some
ceremonial nullity; rather, it has four critical functions. First, it
guarantees the civilian control over the military. Second, Congress
cannot circumvent the president's position as commander in chief by
assigning any of his responsibilities to anyone else. Only the
president can execute any laws that Congress puts in place, and all
inferior military officers from the Joint Chiefs of Staff on down
answer only to him. Third, the Congress is barred from making any
specific order on military matters once it lays down the rules. It
cannot micromanage the military, nor put inferior military personnel
in the impossible position of deciding whose commands to follow, or
why. Fourth, the president, like any inferior military commander, can
respond on his own initiative to an immediate attack, without
congressional authorization.

The president's defenders insist that any gap in his power is filled
because the Constitution provides that the president "shall take Care
that the laws be faithfully executed." But this clause cuts in exactly
the opposite direction. FISA is one law that the president must "take
care" to enforce: He cannot choose to flout or ignore it, even if he
has wide discretion in how to implement it. Nor can the president
obviate the need for legislation by making selective disclosures of
his activities to certain members of Congress whom he then subjects to
a vow of secrecy. Our constitutional structure of checks and balances
is not subject to unilateral presidential circumvention by ad hoc
procedures. The precise detailed enumeration of powers and
responsibilities in Article II just do not confer on the president a
roving commission over foreign and military affairs. He is a
coordinate player, not a dominant one.

So who cares about these close textual and formal arguments? We all
do, or should. The major danger with presidential surveillance does
not lie in this particular overreaching of executive power. It's what
comes next. If President Bush can ignore FISA, then he can disregard a
congressional prohibition against the use of nuclear force. His
defenders often claim that national defense is too important to be
left to a wobbly Congress -- which on my view might prohibit the use
of live ammunition in combat. And so it could. But political forces
are always in play, and no legal institutions are simultaneously
robust against all forms of incompetence.

As Madison reminds us, "Enlightened statesmen will not always be at
the helm." If we accept executive power on steroids, then what's to be
done if a reckless president drags our nation into foolish conflicts?
Over the long haul, we'll do best by sticking to the original game
plan on military matters rather than rewriting the Constitution to let
the president alter the rules of the game. Under our Constitution,
that power belongs to Congress. May it use the power wisely.

Mr. Epstein, the James Parker Hall Distinguished Service Professor at
the University of Chicago and the Peter and Kirsten Bedford Senior
Fellow at the Hoover Institution, is the author, most recently, of
"How Progressives Rewrote the Constitution" (Cato Institute, 2006).

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113980208779772206.html


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Mon Feb 13 01:30:04 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb 13 01:31:06 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] You knew this was coming...
Message-ID: <43F0276C.1000103@bernstein.providence.ri.us>


Veep shoots ? and scores ? with hunting accident
By Howie Carr

Boston Herald Columnist
Monday, February 13, 2006

Maybe Dick Cheney is going to run for president in 2008 after all.

    What better way to shore up his support in the GOP base than to
shoot some good ole boy while hunting? Nothing serious, just a few
pellets. Whatever else you can say about Dick Cheney as a vice
president, he?s no Aaron Burr. Unlike Alexander Hamilton in 1804,
Harry Whittington will be down for breakfast.

    It?s still safer to go hunting with Dick Cheney than it is to go
driving with Ted Kennedy. Or to go to a hotel room with Bill Clinton
for that matter.

    You know, maybe it?s just as well that Cheney got all those
deferments during Vietnam. And now we know it?s not just his heart
that?s on the fritz. What a shame that Jay Leno is off this week
because of the Olympics.

    But look, this is just one of those occupational hazards in the
boondocks. Mistaken for a quail? Hey, the Second Amendment happens.
The only difference between this and most of your traditional hunting
accidents is that our Elmer Fudd of a vice president isn?t related to
the 78-year-old victim.

    How often do Monday-morning conversations in the red states begin
like this:

    ?Y?all hear what done happened to Billy Bob yesterday? Him and his
brother Jerry Jeff was out huntin?, and dad-blame if?n Billy Bob don?t
mistook ole Jerry Jeff for a rabbit. Bang! Right between his beady
little eyes. And the funny thang was, they was havin? a fight over
their mama?s estate....?

    But shooting a lawyer? When Dick Cheney says he believes in tort
reform, he ain?t kidding. At least he wasn?t hunting with Justice
Scalia this time. Who has the stomach for another round of tedious
Supreme Court hearings?

    This is why the Republicans keep winning elections. When it comes
to great American pastimes like hunting, unlike the Democrats they?re
not faking it. Remember John Kerry trying to pass himself off as a
nimrod during the 2004 campaign? It wasn?t the Diebold voting machines
that cost him Ohio, it was his pandering statement at that general
store in late October: ?Can I get me a hunting license here??

    And who can forget Liveshot?s whopper about almost bagging the
12-point deer . . . on Cape Cod! That must have been harrowing, like
the time the killer rabbit tried to take out Jimmy Carter in the canoe.

    Think about it, though. This was the first weekend of the year
with no football. Real men need a way to pass the time. John Kerry
goes windsurfing. Dick Cheney shoots somebody. Can somebody say
landslide in ?08? This is Mitt Romney?s excuse to jump back into the
governor?s race. Everything has changed now.

    ?Condi Rice?? the activists will say. ?She?s OK, but when was the
last time she actually . . . shot somebody??

    Over at the moonbat Web sites yesterday, the conspiracy theorists
were wasting no time on the Pro Bowl. They were ranting that Cheney
did this to change the subject from the Abramoff-Bush photo, as if
anyone but them cares. Or maybe he mistook the lawyer for Scooter
Libby. Dead men tell no tales. Why, the woman who owns the ranch was a
director of Halliburton, and she?s a Cox, and that?s Big Media, and
they want to defund Bill Moyers and NPR . . . .

    It was, as someone noted, as if the punch bowl at the local insane
asylum had been spiked with LSD.

    But at least it?ll give Michael Moore a project for the year ?
maybe he can call his new film Harry and Me, or Fahrenheit double-aught.

    And somewhere, somebody must be printing up new bumper stickers:

    ?Ted Kennedy?s Oldsmobile Has Killed More People than Dick
Cheney?s Shotgun.?


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Mon Feb 13 02:01:49 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb 13 02:02:07 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Coming to Alexandria soon.
Message-ID: <43F02EDD.3070308@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Busy news day, huh?

-=snip=-		

Big Impact Seen In Israel Spy Case

BY JOSH GERSTEIN - Staff Reporter of the Sun
February 13, 2006
URL: http://www.nysun.com/article/27429

Lawyers for two former pro-Israel lobbyists under indictment for
leaking classified information have denounced the prosecution as an
assault on the First Amendment and warned that a vast array of policy
advocates and journalists could be in jeopardy if the case goes forward.

The two lobbyists, Steven Rosen and Keith Weissman, were fired from
their jobs at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee last year
as the probe unfolded. A former Pentagon official charged with
providing classified information to the pair, Lawrence Franklin, is
cooperating with prosecutors after pleading guilty. He was sentenced
last month to more than 12 years in prison.

In a brief filed in January and released last week, the lawyers for
Messrs. Rosen and Weissman argue that the statute barring unauthorized
release of classified material has never been applied to private citizens.

"The breathtaking application of that law to this set of facts breaks
new legal ground," the defense team wrote. "There has never been a
successful prosecution of an alleged leak by persons outside
government persons with no contractual or legal obligation to preserve
classified information."

Messrs. Rosen and Weissman are scheduled to go on trial in federal
court in Alexandria, Va., on April 25. The indictment charges that
they received classified information from Franklin and other
officials, and passed that data on to members of the press and agents
of a foreign government.

Prosecutors have not offered a public description of the information
that was allegedly relayed, nor have they disclosed which reporters or
foreign agents were allegedly involved. However, Franklin was the Iran
desk officer at the Defense Department and some of the data he has
admitted to passing on appear to have pertained to Iranian influence
in Iraq. The foreign diplomats who received classified information in
the alleged scheme appear to have been Israelis.

In court papers asking that the charges be dismissed, the defense
lawyers argue that the prosecution is attempting to criminalize the
traditional give and take of information between lobbyists,
journalists, and government officials. "This is what members of the
media, members of the Washington policy community, lobbyists and
members of congressional staffs do perhaps hundreds of times every
day," the lawyers wrote. "The exchange of information between members
of the government and non-governmental organizations is precisely what
policy lobbying (as well as everyday news reporting) is all about."

The prosecution's response to the motion was filed late last month,
but has not yet been made public. In an unusual arrangement, most
papers filed in the case remain secret for a time while they are
reviewed for classified information.

In an interview yesterday, Mr. Weissman's attorney, John Nassikas III,
said the prosecution should be of concern to all those who play a role
in Washington policy debates. "Hopefully, there will be some resonance
out in the community over this," the lawyer said. "We think that the
government prosecution is off-base and we're challenging in every way,
legally and factually."

However, Mr. Nassikas acknowledged that the defense may face an uphill
battle in trying to convince Judge Thomas Ellis III, who is presiding
over the case, that the prosecution would inhibit the free exchange of
ideas and information vital to American democracy. At Franklin's
sentencing last month, the judge expressed no qualms about punishing
journalists or others who wind up with classified information and pass
it on. "Persons who have unauthorized possession, who come into
unauthorized possession of classified information, must abide by the
law," Judge Ellis said in remarks first reported by the Jewish
Telegraphic Agency. "That applies to academics, lawyers, journalists,
professors, whatever."

The brief filed on behalf of Messrs. Rosen and Weissman was
co-authored by a conservative Georgetown University law professor and
former Justice Department official, Viet Dinh. Mr. Dinh's opposition
to the department's stance in this case is notable because he has
generally supported aggressive prosecution tactics and was an
architect of the 2001 law that broadened the government's
anti-terrorism powers, the USA-PATRIOT Act.

"He's obviously an expert on constitutional law issues, and there have
been a lot of constitutional law flaws in the government's application
of this statute," Mr. Nassikas said. He said Mr. Dinh was enlisted by
Mr. Rosen's attorney, Abbe Lowell. Messrs. Lowell and Dinh did not
return calls yesterday seeking comment for this story.

The case has drawn criticism from some Jewish activists as well as a
journalists' group, the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press,
which has sought to file an amicus brief on behalf of the two
ex-lobbyists.

Legal analysts often distinguish the American legal system's approach
toward breaches of classified information from the tack taken in
Britain, where the country's Official Secrets Act can be used to
prosecute and silence journalists and ordinary citizens who come into
possession of sensitive information. In America, there have been
repeated, but unsuccessful, efforts to pass a similar statute that
would criminalize all leaks of classified information regardless of
the harm caused or the intent or identity of the leaker.

In 2000, President Clinton vetoed legislation that would have made the
release of any classified information a crime.

"It would be fundamentally unfair for the Justice Department to usurp
the province of Congress and create some type of Official Secrets Act
through the prosecution of a test case," the defense team argued in
their brief.

The brief also quotes a prominent federal prosecutor, Patrick
Fitzgerald, about the perils of bringing criminal charges in
connection with leaks of classified information. "You should be very
careful in applying that law because there are a lot of interests that
could be implicated," Mr. Fitzgerald said at a press conference last
year discussing his decision not to charge a White House aide, I.
Lewis Libby, with leaking a CIA officer's identity. Mr. Libby, who has
pleaded not guilty, was charged with perjury and obstruction of
justice in the probe.

Details of the defense filing were first reported by an online
newsletter, Secrecy News, which is published by the Federation of
American Scientists.

Mr. Nassikas declined to say yesterday whether he plans to call
journalists as witnesses, an effort which could prompt further legal
confrontations. "Neither side has indicated what witnesses will be
called at this point. It's clear there are reporters involved in the
facts of the case," the attorney said.

In recent months, Messrs. Rosen and Weissman have been at odds with
their former employer, Aipac, over payment of legal fees in the case.
"That is not resolved," Mr. Nassikas said. He said Mr. Weissman plans
to launch a legal defense fund this week to cover costs that Aipac has
declined to pick up.

Efforts to reach an Aipac spokesman last night were unsuccessful.

-=snip=-


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From paul.lewis at quadensemble.co.uk  Mon Feb 13 13:18:36 2006
From: paul.lewis at quadensemble.co.uk (Paul Lewis)
Date: Mon Feb 13 13:19:11 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] For information only - Please do not take
	offence
Message-ID: <1139854716l.6039l.0l@karachi>

One of my very favorite topical urls

http://www.glumbert.com/media/rave.html


From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Mon Feb 13 17:16:01 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Mon Feb 13 17:17:16 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Brokeback to the Future
Message-ID: <20060213221607.CCRP8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


Pretty darned funny.

http://www.youtube.com/w/Brokeback-to-the-Future?v=zfODSPIYwpQ&search=brokeback%20to%20the%20future



===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


From spmaiorca at cox.net  Mon Feb 13 17:15:50 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Mon Feb 13 17:19:16 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor once
	Again!]
Message-ID: <20060213221448.FWOE26964.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>


> 
> From: "Teresa A. Polychronis" <tpolychronis@nyc.rr.com>
> Date: 2006/02/13 Mon AM 11:48:06 PST
> To: <Orthodox_Re-Forum@yahoogroups.com>,  <Orthodox_Worldview@yahoogroups.com>, 
>         <OrthodoxMidEast@yahoogroups.com>,  <ROCHolyTrinity@yahoogroups.com>, 
>         "Orthodoxia" <Orthodoxia@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor once Again!
> 
> 
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Mon Feb 13 17:44:36 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Mon Feb 13 17:43:15 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor once
	Again!]
In-Reply-To: <20060213221448.FWOE26964.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
References: <20060213221448.FWOE26964.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <200602131744.36738.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:
| > From: "Teresa A. Polychronis" <tpolychronis@nyc.rr.com>
| > Date: 2006/02/13 Mon AM 11:48:06 PST
| > To: <Orthodox_Re-Forum@yahoogroups.com>, 
| > <Orthodox_Worldview@yahoogroups.com>,
| > <OrthodoxMidEast@yahoogroups.com>, 
| > <ROCHolyTrinity@yahoogroups.com>, "Orthodoxia"
| > <Orthodoxia@yahoogroups.com>
| > Subject: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor once Again!

i believe that what you're doing here it cutting out the useless part -- 
then sending it to us. an honest mistake, but i wouldn't send you out 
for clams.
-- 
dep

I do not compare marriage with war, but I do compare marriage
with law or liberty or patriotism or popular government,
or any of the human ideals which have often to be defended by war.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Mon Feb 13 18:04:08 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Mon Feb 13 18:07:15 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor once	Again!]
Message-ID: <20060213230417.PDVJ6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

----- Original Message ----- 
From: webmaster@orthodoxnet.com 
To: news@orthodoxnet.com 
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 1:59 PM
Subject: Gore Proves he is a Traitor once Again!


Gore is a TRAITOR!!!!  He is lying with impunity and shamelessness.  He disgusts me!  The damage this will cause to the peace process in the Middle East is immense.  More people will die as a result of these types of unsubstantiated and completely made up comments. Truly pathetic.  Reminds me of the kind of propaganda and continuous lies and deception I grew up with under communism.  No difference whatsoever!  
 
Chris [Banescu]
 
 
 
Gore Laments U.S. 'Abuses' Against Arabs
Feb 12, 2006 - 9:08 PM US/Eastern   

By JIM KRANE
Associated Press Writer


JIDDAH, Saudi Arabia


Former Vice President Al Gore told a mainly Saudi audience on Sunday that the U.S. government committed "terrible abuses" against Arabs after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, and that most Americans did not support such treatment. 

Gore said Arabs had been "indiscriminately rounded up" and held in "unforgivable" conditions. The former vice president said the Bush administration was playing into al-Qaida's hands by routinely blocking Saudi visa applications. 

 

"The thoughtless way in which visas are now handled, that is a mistake," Gore said during the Jiddah Economic Forum. "The worst thing we can possibly do is to cut off the channels of friendship and mutual understanding between Saudi Arabia and the United States." 

Gore told the largely Saudi audience, many of them educated at U.S. universities, that Arabs in the United States had been "indiscriminately rounded up, often on minor charges of overstaying a visa or not having a green card in proper order, and held in conditions that were just unforgivable." 

"Unfortunately there have been terrible abuses and it's wrong," Gore said. "I do want you to know that it does not represent the desires or wishes or feelings of the majority of the citizens of my country." 

On Iran, Gore complained of "endemic hyper-corruption" among Tehran's religious and political elite and asked Arabs to take a stand against Iran's nuclear program. 

Iran says its program is for peaceful purposes but the United States and other Western countries suspect Tehran is trying to develop nuclear weapons. 

"Is it only for the West to say this is dangerous?" Gore asked. "We should have more people in this region saying this is dangerous." 

Several audience members criticized the United States for what they described as "unconditional" U.S. support for Israel, saying U.S. diplomats helped Israel flout U.N. resolutions that they enforced when the measures targeted Arabs. 

Gore refused to be drawn into questions about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. 

"We can't solve that long conflict in exchanges here," Gore said. 

Also at the forum, the vice chairman of Chevron Corp., Peter Robertson, said President Bush's desire to cut U.S. dependence on Mideast oil shows a "misunderstanding" of global energy supply and the critical role of Saudi Arabia. 

In his State of the Union address this month, Bush pledged to cut U.S. dependence on Middle East oil by 75 percent by 2025. 

"This notion of being energy independent is completely unreasonable," Robertson said at the economic forum, which opened Saturday. 

"I believe Middle Eastern oil can and must play a certain role in the system," Robertson said. "Saudi Arabia's massive resources will continue to promote international energy security and serve as a moderating force in balancing supply and demand." 

Cherie Blair, wife of British Prime Minister Tony Blair, made a plea at the forum for women's rights, telling Saudi leaders that the dearth of women in the work force was "undermining economic potential" of the kingdom. 

Irish President Mary McAleese urged Saudi Arabia to learn from Ireland's economic transformation, which hinged on opening the country to the outside world and ushering women into the workplace. 


From prather.js at verizon.net  Mon Feb 13 18:17:28 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb 13 18:18:15 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor once
	Again!]
In-Reply-To: <20060213230417.PDVJ6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <0IUN002IGFDAVEM0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:04:08 -0800, spmaiorca@cox.net wrote:

>Gore is a TRAITOR!!!!  He is lying with impunity and shamelessness.  He disgusts me!  The damage this will cause to the peace process in the Middle East is immense.  More people will die as a result of these types of unsubstantiated and completely made up comments. Truly pathetic.  Reminds me of the kind of propaganda and continuous lies and deception I grew up with under communism.  No difference whatsoever!  

I agree with all of this paragraph except the first sentence. 
Kerry is/was a traitor; Gore is just a simple fool.  My
heartfelt sympathies to Tipper and the media...


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From prather.js at verizon.net  Mon Feb 13 18:59:49 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb 13 19:09:18 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Evening News?
Message-ID: <0IUN001WAHBNM7U1@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>

I have just been watching Brit Hume's show.  I have an
observation:

On the Katrina report:  I am flabbergasted how Homeland Security
is totally dissed, along with all federal agencies with no
mention of any good guys.  The Coast Guard is part of HSD and
was there immediately behind the storm.  The navy had ships
there before the LA governor could decide who she could blame. 
Now, there are a lot of hits on the government that are well
deserved.  These are mostly on government employees who have a
"GS" in their title.  In my experience with government, this is
where the dead wood goes to rot.  If one of these rotters rises
to the level of command, then a disaster is probable.  Again,
look at what cream rose to the surface during the Katrina
episode - it wasn't the mayor, nor was it the governor.  It was
the general who came in and took charge.  

Summation:  Bureaucrats are no good in an emergency; call in the
cavalry!!!

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Mon Feb 13 20:01:32 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Mon Feb 13 20:00:17 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor once
	Again!]
In-Reply-To: <0IUN002IGFDAVEM0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IUN002IGFDAVEM0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602132001.33060.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Jerry Prather:
| On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 15:04:08 -0800, spmaiorca@cox.net wrote:
| >Gore is a TRAITOR!!!!  He is lying with impunity and shamelessness. 
| > He disgusts me!  The damage this will cause to the peace process in
| > the Middle East is immense.  More people will die as a result of
| > these types of unsubstantiated and completely made up comments.
| > Truly pathetic.  Reminds me of the kind of propaganda and
| > continuous lies and deception I grew up with under communism.  No
| > difference whatsoever!
|
| I agree with all of this paragraph except the first sentence.
| Kerry is/was a traitor; Gore is just a simple fool.  My
| heartfelt sympathies to Tipper and the media...

he's two, two, two reprehensible types in one: stupid, but with a 
sparkling drop of treason. and were there justice, he would be tried, 
convicted, and hanged for his anti-u.s. remarks overseas.

-- 
dep

>From time to time, as we all know, a sect appears in our midst
announcing that the world will very soon come to an end. Generally,
by some slight confusion or miscalculation, it is the sect that comes
to an end.
		-- G.K. Chesterton

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Mon Feb 13 20:04:17 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Mon Feb 13 20:03:17 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor
	=?iso-8859-1?q?once=09Again!=5D?=
In-Reply-To: <20060213230417.PDVJ6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
References: <20060213230417.PDVJ6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <200602132004.17988.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/2/13/182926.shtml?s=ic

The Saudi Arabia seminar that was addressed by former Vice President Al 
Gore over the weekend in a speech that criticized the U.S. for being 
too tough on Arabs was sponsored, in part, by Osama bin Laden's family.

On Saturday, the state-run Saudi news outlet Arab News reported that the 
Jeddah Economic Forum, where Gore spoke, was funded by "Saudi Arabian 
Airlines, the Saudi Binladin Group, Gulf One Investment Bank, Saudi 
Basic Industries Corp." and an array of other big companies with ties 
to the Middle East.

The Saudi BinLadin Group - which is Saudi Arabia's largest construction 
company - is run by Osama bin Laden's brothers and cousins. Jeddah, the 
site of the forum attended by Gore, is Osama bin Laden's hometown.

Although family members claim they've disowned bin Laden, his mother 
told reporters after the 9/11 attacks that she received advanced 
warning from him that something big was about to happen. . . .
-- 
dep

It's not that we don't have enough scoundrels to curse; it's that we
don't have enough good men to curse them.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From prather.js at verizon.net  Mon Feb 13 20:12:18 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb 13 20:13:17 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitoronce
	Again!]
In-Reply-To: <200602132004.17988.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <0IUN0059VKOG5A72@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:04:17 -0500, dep wrote:

>The Saudi Arabia seminar that was addressed by former Vice President Al 
>Gore over the weekend in a speech that criticized the U.S. for being 
>too tough on Arabs was sponsored, in part, by Osama bin Laden's family.

Gore is so unconscious.  John Gibson was right tonight when he
labeled Gore as thinking that he is President instead of just
being a wanna-be.  Why do the Democrats have so many players
with so many fouls that they need to be benched???

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From prather.js at verizon.net  Mon Feb 13 21:06:19 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb 13 21:07:19 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor once
	Again!]
In-Reply-To: <200602132001.33060.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <0IUN006YZN6NAH41@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>

On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:01:32 -0500, dep wrote:

>he's two, two, two reprehensible types in one: stupid, but with a 
>sparkling drop of treason. and were there justice, he would be tried, 
>convicted, and hanged for his anti-u.s. remarks overseas.

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with your priorities.  Kerry
first!!!

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Mon Feb 13 21:22:35 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Mon Feb 13 21:21:19 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor once
	Again!]
In-Reply-To: <0IUN006YZN6NAH41@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IUN006YZN6NAH41@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602132122.35834.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Jerry Prather:
| On Mon, 13 Feb 2006 20:01:32 -0500, dep wrote:
| >he's two, two, two reprehensible types in one: stupid, but with a
| >sparkling drop of treason. and were there justice, he would be
| > tried, convicted, and hanged for his anti-u.s. remarks overseas.
|
| I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with your priorities.  Kerry
| first!!!

a budget big enough to rebuild cities for those who want to live at the 
bottom of an empty pond is big enough to afford two ropes.
-- 
dep

What life and death may be to a turkey is not my business; but the
soul of Scrooge and the body of Cratchit are my business.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From sweeks1951 at netzero.net  Mon Feb 13 22:36:37 2006
From: sweeks1951 at netzero.net (Steve Weeks)
Date: Mon Feb 13 22:38:20 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re:  Bottom Posting vs Top Posting
In-Reply-To: <200602121847.00055.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHICEHFCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>

Hah - 

a punctuational nit: it should be "from the either/or . . . ?"

--
dep

Hah!
 


From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Mon Feb 13 23:09:18 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Mon Feb 13 23:08:21 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] look at this
Message-ID: <200602132309.18078.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y7/llevrok/FUN/47628082_F_tn.jpg
-- 
dep

Art, like morality, consists of drawing the line somewhere.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Tue Feb 14 01:48:40 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Tue Feb 14 01:57:29 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Cuban Memorial Honors Castro's Victims
Message-ID: <20060214065400.UKVP26964.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

But you'll never read about it in liberal press
HE
 
http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=12379

Cuban Memorial Honors Castro's Victims

by Humberto Fontova
Posted Feb , 2006
You'll often find people with itchy noses and red-rimmed eyes ambling amidst the long rows of white crosses at Tamiami Park on Coral Way and 107 Avenue in Miami.

It's a mini-Arlington cemetery called the Cuban Memorial, in honor of Castro's murder victims and those who fell trying to free Cuba from the murderous barbarism he imposed with his Soviet overlords while "The Best and Brightest" dithered, bumbled and finally betrayed. But the tombs are symbolic. Most of the bodies still lie in mass graves dug by bulldozers on the orders of Ted Turner's fishing buddy, Harry Belafonte's bosom pal and Barbara Walter's favored dinner companion.

Never heard of this Cuban Memorial in the mainstream media? Well, it honors the tens of thousands of Fidel Castro's and Che Guevara's victims (many of them U.S citizens, by the way). Need I say more about the media blackout? ... I didn't think so.

Some of these Cuban Memorial visitors will be kneeling, others walking slowly, looking for a name. You remember a similar scene from the opening frames of Saving Private Ryan. Many clutch rosaries. Many of the ladies will be pressing their faces into the breast of a relative who drove them there, a relative who wraps his arms around her spastically heaving shoulders.

Try as he might not to cry himself, he usually finds that the sobs wracking his mother, grandmother or aunt are contagious. Yet he's often too young to remember the face of his martyred uncle, father, or cousin -- the name they just recognized on the white cross.

"Fusilado" -- firing squad execution -- it says below it.

These total 14,000, all at the orders of the man being swamped and feted by U.S. trade delegations from Louisiana to Nebraska to Maine. Even many of the older men walking among these crosses will be red-eyed, choked up. No denying it, we're an emotional people. And not ashamed to show it, at the proper time.

The elderly lady still holds a tissue to her eyes and nose as they wait to cross the street after leaving the memorial. Her red-eyed grandson still has his arm around her. She told him about how his freedom-fighter grandfather yelled "Viva Cuba Libre!" and "Viva Cristo Rey!" the instant before the volley shattered his body.

They cross the street slowly, silently and run into a dreadlocked youth coming out of a music store. His T-shirt sports the face of her husband's cowardly executioner, Che Guevara. They turn their heads in rage and toward the store window. Well, there's the murderer's face again, on a huge poster, $19.95 it says at the bottom, right next to the inscription, "Fight Oppression!"

You, friends, tell me how she might feel?

Another woman will go home after placing flowers under her father's cross -- a father she never knew. "Killed in action, Bay of Pigs, April 18th, 1961" reads the inscription on his cross. She was 2 at the time. "We will not be evacuated!" yelled her father's commander into his radio that day, as 41,000 Red Troops and swarms of Stalin tanks closed the ring on her father and his 1,400 utterly abandoned Band of Brothers. "The Best and Brightest" all had important social engagements that day.

"We came here to Fight!" her father's commander kept yelling at the enraged and heartsick CIA man offering to evacuate them from the doomed beachhead. "Let it end here!" was his last yell, barely audible over the deafening blasts from the storm of Soviet artillery.

Her 23-year-old father -- an accountant in Cuba a year before, a dish-washer in a Miami Hotel only two months before, and now grim-faced, thirst-crazed and delirious after three days of continuous ground combat -- heard the order from his commander: "No Retreat! We Stand and Fight!" and rammed in his last clip. By then he'd long realized he'd never see his daughter's graduation.

His ammo expended, and no more coming on the specific orders of "The Best and Brightest," he fell among the bodies of 100 of his Band of Brothers, after mauling his communist enemies to the score of 20 to one. "Wimps! Yes, Wimps!" the woman hears Michael Moore label her father and his Band of Brothers in one of America's best-selling books. "Crybabies too!"

Again, friends, you tell me, how she might feel.

Castro murdered her relatives, shattered her family and plunged a nation -- which had double Japan's per capita income in 1958, plus net immigration from Europe -- into a pesthole that repels even half-starved Haitians. He jailed, tortured and murdered more political prisoners than pre-war Hitler, and about 20 times as many as Mussolini.

He asked, pleaded and finally tried to cajole the Butcher of Budapest into an obliterating nuclear strike against America. Failing there, he tried to blow up Macy's, Gimbel's, Bloomingdales and Grand Central Station with more TNT than used by Madrid subway terrorists.

Yet he's hailed as "One Helluva Guy" by Ted Turner; as "Very likable, a man I regard as a friend!" by George McGovern; and "Way Too Cool!" by Bonnie Raitt, among dozens upon dozens of other accolades by dozens of other liberal scoundrels and imbeciles. Today the U.S. is his biggest food supplier.

Tens of thousands of Cubans (and dozens of Americans) fought him. "We were fighting for Cuba's freedom as well as America's defense. To call us mercenaries is a grave insult," says Alabama Air guard officer Albert Persons about his and his Alabama comrades' heroism during the battle of The Bay of Pigs. The Ivy League's Best and Brightest might sell our comrades out, they snorted. We sure as hell won't.

It was more than bluster, too. Four U.S. volunteers -- Pete Ray, Riley Shamburger, Leo Barker and Wade Grey -- suited up, gunned the engines and joined the fight. These were Southern boys, not pampered Ivy Leaguers, so there was no navel-gazing. They had archaic notions of right and wrong, of honor and loyalty, of who America's enemies really are. Their Cuban comrades -- men they'd trained and befriended -- were being slaughtered on that heroic beachead. Knowing their lumbering B-26s were sitting ducks for Castro's unmolested jets and Sea Furies, all four Alabama air guard volunteers flew over the doomed beachhead to lend support to their betrayed brothers in arms.

All four were shot down. All four have their names in a place of honor next to their Cuban comrades on the Bay of Pigs Memorial, plus streets named after them in Little Havana, plus their crosses at the Cuban Memorial.  

When Doug MacArthur waded ashore on Leyte, he grabbed a radio: "People of the Philippines: I have returned. By the grace of Almighty God our forces stand again on Philippine soil -- soil consecrated in the blood of our two peoples."

Cuban soil was similarly consecrated.

"My hatred of Bolshevism and Bolsheviks is not founded on their silly system of economics or their absurd doctrine of an impossible equality," wrote Winston Churchill. "It arises from the bloody and devastating terrorism which they practice in every land into which they have broken, and by which alone their criminal regime can be maintained."

Sir Winston Churchill did not loose a single family member or close friend to that "bloody and devastating terrorism." Yet to this day his every utterance and note is revered as an exemplar of judiciousness and heroism. But let a Cuban-American who lost half  his family to Communist firing squads and prisons express the identical sentiment and he's promptly denounced by liberals as a "screaming, irrational hot-head!"   

"Disgusting!" spat Bryant Gumbel while watching Cuban-American demonstrators in front of Elian Gonzalez' uncle's house six years ago.

Some very dedicated and selfless folks are holding a memorial service including a Mass and vigil at the Cuban Memorial in Miami's Tamiami Park this February 25. The service is open to the public. Attend and you'll be surrounded by a sea of crosses, many heroes and heroines, along with their surviving friends and kin. If ever a group merits a memorial service it's the heroes and heroines  here honored. Even if you're not related to any of these folks, even if their story is new to you, attend and you'll honor heroes who fought America's most rabid enemy -- and you'll poke a sharp finger into the eye of the liberal media.

Copyright ? 2006 HUMAN EVENTS. All Rights Reserved

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Tue Feb 14 04:40:44 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca)
Date: Tue Feb 14 04:41:29 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Fw: Gore Proves he is a Traitor
	=?iso-8859-1?q?once=09Again!=5D_we_should_boycott?= Chevron
In-Reply-To: <200602132004.17988.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
References: <20060213230417.PDVJ6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
	<200602132004.17988.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <200602140140.44077.spmaiorca@cox.net>

Also looking at it we should boycott Chevron It is Saudi oil money funding the 
Jihadist..

vice chairman of Chevron Corp., Peter Robertson,
> said President Bush's desire to cut U.S. dependence on Mideast oil shows a
> "misunderstanding" of global energy supply and the critical role of Saudi
> Arabia.
>
> In his State of the Union address this month, Bush pledged to cut U.S.
> dependence on Middle East oil by 75 percent by 2025.
>
> "This notion of being energy independent is completely unreasonable,"
> Robertson said at the economic forum, which opened Saturday.
>
> "I believe Middle Eastern oil can and must play a certain role in the
> system," Robertson said. "Saudi Arabia's massive resources will continue to
> promote international energy security and serve as a moderating force in
> balancing supply and demand."
From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Tue Feb 14 11:09:04 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Tue Feb 14 11:11:33 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Two crises
Message-ID: <20060214160916.YMOE8484.centrmmtao02.cox.net@enigmaster>


Two crises

By Thomas Sowell

Feb 14, 2006

This nation is facing two crises -- one phony and one real. Both in the 
media and in politics, the phony crisis is getting virtually all the 
attention.

Like the French official in "Casablanca," politicians and much of the 
media are shocked, shocked, to discover that the government has been 
listening in on calls involving international terrorist networks. 
Congressional leaders of both parties have in fact known this for years 
without saying a word.

Only after the New York Times published the news and made a big noise 
about it have politicians begun to declare their shock.

That is not the only thing that makes this big uproar phony. The same 
people who are going ballistic over what they spin as "domestic spying" 
never went ballistic over one of the most gross examples of genuine 
domestic spying during the Clinton years.

Hundreds of raw FBI files on Republicans were sent to the Clinton White 
House, in violation of laws and for no higher purpose than having enough 
dirt on enough people to intimidate political opponents. But domestic 
spying against Republicans did not shock nearly as many people as 
intercepting phone calls from terrorists.

The current hue and cry that is being whipped up into a media crisis is 
part of a whole pattern of short-sighted political obstruction and a 
futile venting of spleen.

What could have been more short-sighted and petty than the Congressional 
Democrats holding up the official electoral college vote last year 
confirming the re-election of President Bush? It was the first time such 
a challenge was made since 1877.

Democrats knew from the outset that they had no chance of preventing 
Bush's re-election from being confirmed in the Republican-controlled 
House of Representatives. Moreover, since he was already President, they 
could not even delay his taking office. It was obstruction for the sake 
of obstruction -- and to "do something" to appeal to the Bush-hatred of 
their political base. It was the same thing when the Democrats 
obstructed and delayed the confirmation vote on Condoleezza Rice as 
Secretary of State and later the confirmation of Samuel Alito to the 
Supreme Court.

They knew from the outset that these were just futile temper tantrums 
that would not affect the outcome in the slightest.

One of the ugliest examples of the same mindset was painfully visible at 
the recent funeral of Coretta Scott King, where a solemn occasion was 
turned into a series of political cheap shots against a President who 
had come to honor the memory of Mrs. King.

The truly dangerous aspect of this temper tantrum politics is its 
undermining the government of the United States in its dealings with 
foreign powers and international terrorist networks.

There are nations and movements that respect only force or the threat of 
force. Regardless of anyone's politics, the President of the United 
States is the only one who can launch that force.

In the early days of the Iraq war, when it was clear to all that 
American military force would be unleashed against our enemies, Libya 
suddenly agreed to abandon its nuclear program and other countries 
backed off their hostile stances.

But when our domestic obstructionists began undermining the President 
and dividing the country, they were undermining the credibility of 
American power. North Korea's government-controlled media gave big play 
to Senator John Kerry's speeches against the U.S. hard line on the 
development of North Korean nuclear weapons.

Obviously this all-out attempt to damage the President at all costs 
makes any threat of the use of military force less credible with the 
country divided.

Whether President Bush will in fact use military force as a last resort 
to prevent an unending nightmare of nuclear weapons in the hands of 
Iranian fanatics and international terrorists is something only the 
future will tell.

It would be far better if the threat of force were credible enough that 
actual force would not have to be used. But divisive politics have 
undermined the credibility of any such threat. That can narrow the 
choices to killing people in Iran or leaving ourselves and our posterity 
at the mercy of hate-filled and suicidal fanatics with nukes.

That is the real crisis that is being overshadowed by the phony 
political crisis.

Thomas Sowell is the prolific author of books such as Black Rednecks and 
White Liberals and Applied Economics.







From prather.js at verizon.net  Tue Feb 14 19:19:52 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Tue Feb 14 19:22:40 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] A curse for all time...
Message-ID: <0IUP00J20CX5B0M2@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

If I really wanted to curse a child at birth, I would intone an
incantation that he be sufficiently talented to become the White
House Press Secretary.


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From prather.js at verizon.net  Tue Feb 14 19:31:53 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Tue Feb 14 19:32:39 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: A curse for all time...
Message-ID: <0IUP006LTDH2AG95@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 19:19:52 -0500 (EST), Jerry Prather wrote:

>If I really wanted to curse a child at birth, I would intone an
>incantation that he be sufficiently talented to become the White
>House Press Secretary.

I really didn't finish my curse.  It should have ended with "and
be dumb enough to accept the appointment."


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Tue Feb 14 19:34:17 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Tue Feb 14 19:38:40 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fw: President Reagan's Last Words
Message-ID: <20060215003422.WUJP8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


  I don't know whether or not you watched the memorial service
  for Ronald Reagan, BUT...... if you did, you probably noticed 
  that Bill and Hillary were both dozing off. 

  President Ronald Reagan, who never missed a chance for a good 
  one-liner, raised his head out of his casket and said.....

  "I see the Clintons are finally sleeping together."

   


===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================


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From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Wed Feb 15 02:18:44 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb 15 02:18:47 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Who knew what when?
Message-ID: <43F2D5D4.6030907@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

The Wall Street Journal 		


Cheney's Coverup
February 15, 2006; Page A16

The press corps is outraged that the White House waited 20 hours or so
to disclose that Vice President Dick Cheney had shot a hunting
companion, and we can see why. Don't these Bush people understand that
the coverup is worse than the crime?

In the name of media solidarity, and in the interest of restraining
the Imperial Presidency, we have put together the following coverup
timeline with crucial questions that deserve to be answered:

? 5:30 p.m., Saturday (all times Central Standard Time). Mr. Cheney
sprays Harry Whittington with birdshot, and the Secret Service
immediately informs local police. Who is Harry Whittington and whom
does he lobby for? Does he know Scooter Libby?

? 6:30 p.m. White House Chief of Staff Andy Card informs President
Bush that there's been a hunting accident involving the Vice
President's party. Did Mr. Bush ask followup questions? Was he
intellectually curious?

? 7 p.m. Karl Rove tells Mr. Bush that it is Mr. Cheney who did the
shooting. Why was this detail withheld for a full 30 minutes from the
President? Who else did Mr. Rove talk to about this in the interim?
Was Valerie Plame ever mentioned?

? 5 a.m., Sunday. White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan learns
that Mr. Cheney is the shooter. He also fails to alert the media. Did
he rush to write talking points or fall back to sleep?

? 11 a.m. Katharine Armstrong, owner of the ranch where the shooting
took place, blows the story sky-high by giving the news to the Corpus
Christi Caller-Times. According to Ms. Armstrong, Mr. Cheney told her
to do what she thought made sense. Has Ms. Armstrong ever worked for
Halliburton?

? 11:27 a.m., Monday. Mr. McClellan finally holds a press conference
and gets grilled. One reporter actually asks (and we're not making
this one up), "Would this be much more serious if the man had died?"

? 1:30 p.m. The Texas paper posts the story on its Web site, after
calling the Veep's office for confirmation. Everyone involved confirms
more or less everything, or so the official line goes. Their agreement
is very suspicious.

For the record, Mr. McClellan replied, "Of course it would." We hope
the 78-year-old Mr. Whittington recovers promptly after his heart
attack yesterday. As for the Beltway press corps, it has once again
earned the esteem in which it is held by the American public.

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113996642493674158.html


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From prather.js at verizon.net  Wed Feb 15 19:04:19 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Wed Feb 15 19:05:01 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Cheney farce...
Message-ID: <0IUR00JUF6V21I22@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>

Let's face it, the "national media" are a bunch of asses.  I
wonder how they would have reacted to Dorothy's house killing
the Wicked Witch?

Maybe Scott McClelland should have a media counterpart, a single
individual who could be called on the carpet to explain the
monolithic media's response to an event.  As the first occupant
of this august seat, I nominate Helen Thomas.




Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Wed Feb 15 19:35:08 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb 15 19:36:01 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Cheney farce...
In-Reply-To: <0IUR00JUF6V21I22@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602160035.k1G0Z9Xf018794@oasis.novia.net>

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 19:04:19 -0500 (EST), Jerry Prather wrote:

>Let's face it, the "national media" are a bunch of asses.  I
>wonder how they would have reacted to Dorothy's house killing
>the Wicked Witch?

>Maybe Scott McClelland should have a media counterpart, a single
>individual who could be called on the carpet to explain the
>monolithic media's response to an event.  As the first occupant
>of this august seat, I nominate Helen Thomas.

a/k/a The Wicked Witch of the East?




From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Wed Feb 15 19:59:45 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Wed Feb 15 19:58:02 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Cheney farce...
In-Reply-To: <0IUR00JUF6V21I22@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IUR00JUF6V21I22@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602151959.45897.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Jerry Prather:

| I nominate Helen Thomas.

there's already research of the archives underway to determine how she 
covered it when aaron burr shot alexander hamilton.
-- 
dep

War is not the best way of settling differences; it is the only way of
preventing their being settled for you.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Wed Feb 15 20:15:44 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb 15 20:16:02 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Cheney farce...
In-Reply-To: <200602151959.45897.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <200602160115.k1G1FjBL002702@oasis.novia.net>

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 19:59:45 -0500, dep wrote:

>| I nominate Helen Thomas.

>there's already research of the archives underway to determine how she 
>covered it when aaron burr shot alexander hamilton.

That was covered up for a few days and Helen has been pissed off ever 
since!




From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Wed Feb 15 21:11:52 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb 15 21:13:02 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] May.  Threaten. Present.
Message-ID: <43F3DF68.3030904@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

"...the tapes contain unknown material that may threaten present
regimes. May.  Threaten. Present."

http://www.spectator.org/blogger.asp#1953



-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Wed Feb 15 21:40:47 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb 15 21:57:04 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] OY VEY IS THIS TERRIBLE!
Message-ID: <43F3E62F.6020200@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

>From _The American Spectator_

-=snip=-

Insult Law
By Jackie Mason & Raoul Felder

Published 2/14/2006 12:08:58 AM

	
The Muslims have pronounced their verdict. The cartoon man has been
found guilty. The real crime is, of course, not being a Muslim. Now
that they have established the crime, they have also pronounced the
sentence. Even if you never saw or heard of the cartoon, you deserve
to be hit with rocks, your car wrecked, and your embassies destroyed
because you are an infidel -- and incidentally, there are no appeals.
There was even television coverage of a Muslim religious leader
screaming in some unintelligible language. However, on the bottom of
the screen the translation appeared. This religious leader was
shouting that whoever drew the cartoon should have his hands cut off.
This hardly seems for us to be a reasonable penalty for somebody
taking a piece of paper, picking up a pen, and drawing something.

Could you picture a Jew doing something like this? Ironically, the
cartoonists were not even condemning Islam, they were merely creating
a satire of a terrorist. They weren't insulting their religion, they
were satirizing a fanatic. But, the Muslims have decided that there
are no laws, limits, or boundaries that apply to their behavior. They
not only have the right to take your life, they now have the right to
rob you of your freedom of expression.

Could you picture a Jew killing anybody for such meaningless reasons?
If a Jew gets mad he might sneak into your house and steal your
lipitor or he would make a deal with your doctor to lie about your
cholesterol number, or just when you have fasted a whole day on Yom
Kippur when you finally could eat you would find that he snuck into
your house and stole all your pastrami sandwiches.

I never saw a Jew going into meaningless fights. That is why you
seldom see Jewish football players. A Jew is not going to take a
chance in spraining his neck or tearing a ligament in his knee or
wrinkling his clothes just because he was fighting with somebody about
catching a ball. He would rather go to a store and buy another ball
and avoid the whole problem. That is why there are also no Jewish
hockey players. Hockey players spend all their time hitting each other
in the mouth with sticks. When Jews saw how Gentiles played hockey
that is how Jews found out that instead of becoming a hockey player
they would become dentists, and that way they decided to let other
people play the game while they found a way to make a profit from it.

Jews are never known to get into unnecessary physical battles. That is
why people are never afraid of being attacked by a Jew. Did you ever
hear anybody say, "Don't go into that neighborhood it is very
dangerous, there are a lot of Jews there?" Jews have for so long been
accustomed to being threatened and persecuted all over the world that
they could never dream of creating needless violence anywhere because
they would be grateful to even find a place where they are allowed to
live in peace. Jews could never dream of threatening innocent people
with inexcusable violence. Meanwhile the rest of the world is reacting
to the Muslims with an amazing cowardice. Instead of a collective
fury, we are pleading for forgiveness, and promising not to offend
them with any more cartoons. Could anything be more perverted? The
same people who are not offended by suicide bombers and terrorist
killings, murder, mayhem, and destruction around the world have now
decided that a cartoon... "OY VEY IS THIS TERRIBLE!"

Everyday Muslim and European newspapers insult and degrade Jews as
animals and rodents, which is not only insulting but, additionally,
encourages the hatred of Jews. But did you ever hear any Jewish
authority anywhere demanding that we find any of these cartoonists so
that we can choke them to death or cut them up. Did you ever hear of
an Israeli death squad searching for a cartoonist? If the Jewish
people applied the same insult standard requiring a death sentence no
Muslim would be safe now, anywhere in the world. Could you picture a
Jew deciding that he has the right to kill but you have no right to
draw an insulting picture?

Nobody has ever died from a cartoon. If the worst thing the Nazis ever
did had been to draw cartoons of death camps instead of putting Jews
in them, six million Jews would be alive today. When was the last time
any country decided to kill a Muslim anywhere in the world because
they felt insulted? But the Muslims have created a new international
law called the "insult law." This means they have the right to kill
you whenever they please, and you have no right to do anything about
it. If a Muslim were walking down a street in Israel with a picture of
an insulting cartoon in hand, no Israeli would threaten his life. They
would be too busy celebrating the fact that it was a cartoon and not a
bomb.

-=snip=-

http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=9410


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Thu Feb 16 00:02:31 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Thu Feb 16 00:03:05 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Socrates vs. SV
Message-ID: <43F40767.4000605@bernstein.providence.ri.us>


Citing Christopher Lasch isn't a bad start...


-=snip=-

The Weekly Standard

Web 2.0

The second generation of the Internet has arrived. It's worse than you
think.

by Andrew Keen
02/15/2006 12:00:00 AM


THE ANCIENTS were good at resisting seduction. Odysseus fought the
seductive song of the Sirens by having his men tie him to the mast of
his ship as it sailed past the Siren's Isle. Socrates was so intent on
protecting citizens from the seductive opinions of artists and
writers, that he outlawed them from his imaginary republic.

We moderns are less nimble at resisting great seductions, particularly
those utopian visions that promise grand political or cultural
salvation. From the French and Russian revolutions to the
counter-cultural upheavals of the '60s and the digital revolution of
the '90s, we have been seduced, time after time and text after text,
by the vision of a political or economic utopia.

Rather than Paris, Moscow, or Berkeley, the grand utopian movement of
our contemporary age is headquartered in Silicon Valley, whose great
seduction is actually a fusion of two historical movements: the
counter-cultural utopianism of the '60s and the techno-economic
utopianism of the '90s. Here in Silicon Valley, this seduction has
announced itself to the world as the "Web 2.0" movement.

LAST WEEK, I was treated to lunch at a fashionable Japanese restaurant
in Palo Alto by a serial Silicon Valley entrepreneur who, back in the
dot.com boom, had invested in my start-up Audiocafe.com. The
entrepreneur, like me a Silicon Valley veteran, was pitching me his
latest start-up: a technology platform that creates easy-to-use
software tools for online communities to publish weblogs, digital
movies, and music. It is technology that enables anyone with a
computer to become an author, a film director, or a musician. This Web
2.0 dream is Socrates's nightmare: technology that arms every citizen
with the means to be an opinionated artist or writer.

"This is historic," my friend promised me. "We are enabling Internet
users to author their own content. Think of it as empowering citizen
media. We can help smash the elitism of the Hollywood studios and the
big record labels. Our technology platform will radically democratize
culture, build authentic community, create citizen media." Welcome to
Web 2.0.

Buzzwords from the old dot.com era--like "cool," "eyeballs," or
"burn-rate"--have been replaced in Web 2.0 by language which is
simultaneously more militant and absurd: Empowering citizen media,
radically democratize, smash elitism, content redistribution,
authentic community . . . . This sociological jargon, once the
preserve of the hippie counterculture, has now become the lexicon of
new media capitalism.

Yet this entrepreneur owns a $4 million house a few blocks from Steve
Jobs's house. He vacations in the South Pacific. His children attend
the most exclusive private academy on the peninsula. But for all of
this he sounds more like a cultural Marxist--a disciple of Gramsci or
Herbert Marcuse--than a capitalist with an MBA from Stanford.

In his mind, "big media"--the Hollywood studios, the major record
labels and international publishing houses--really did represent the
enemy. The promised land was user-generated online content. In Marxist
terms, the traditional media had become the exploitative
"bourgeoisie," and citizen media, those heroic bloggers and
podcasters, were the "proletariat."

This outlook is typical of the Web 2.0 movement, which fuses '60s
radicalism with the utopian eschatology of digital technology. The
ideological outcome may be trouble for all of us.

SO WHAT, exactly, is the Web 2.0 movement? As an ideology, it is based
upon a series of ethical assumptions about media, culture, and
technology. It worships the creative amateur: the self-taught
filmmaker, the dorm-room musician, the unpublished writer. It suggests
that everyone--even the most poorly educated and inarticulate amongst
us--can and should use digital media to express and realize
themselves. Web 2.0 "empowers" our creativity, it "democratizes"
media, it "levels the playing field" between experts and amateurs. The
enemy of Web 2.0 is "elitist" traditional media.

Empowered by Web 2.0 technology, we can all become citizen
journalists, citizen videographers, citizen musicians. Empowered by
this technology, we will be able to write in the morning, direct
movies in the afternoon, and make music in the evening.

Sounds familiar? It's eerily similar to Marx's seductive promise about
individual self-realization in his German Ideology:

    "Whereas in communist society, where nobody has one exclusive
sphere of activity but each can become accomplished in any branch he
wishes, society regulates the general production and thus makes it
possible for me to do one thing today and another tomorrow, to hunt in
the morning, fish in the afternoon, rear cattle in the evening,
criticise after dinner, just as I have a mind, without ever becoming
hunter, fisherman, shepherd or critic."

Just as Marx seduced a generation of European idealists with his
fantasy of self-realization in a communist utopia, so the Web 2.0 cult
of creative self-realization has seduced everyone in Silicon Valley.
The movement bridges counter-cultural radicals of the '60s such as
Steve Jobs with the contemporary geek culture of Google's Larry Page.
Between the book-ends of Jobs and Page lies the rest of Silicon Valley
including radical communitarians like Craig Newmark (of
Craigslist.com), intellectual property communists such as Stanford Law
Professor Larry Lessig, economic cornucopians like Wired magazine
editor Chris "Long Tail" Anderson, and new media moguls Tim O'Reilly
and John Batelle.

The ideology of the Web 2.0 movement was perfectly summarized at the
Technology Education and Design (TED) show in Monterey, last year,
when Kevin Kelly, Silicon Valley's ?ber-idealist and author of the Web
1.0 Internet utopia Ten Rules for The New Economy, said:

    "Imagine Mozart before the technology of the piano. Imagine Van
Gogh before the technology of affordable oil paints. Imagine Hitchcock
before the technology of film. We have a moral obligation to develop
technology."

But where Kelly sees a moral obligation to develop technology, we
should actually have--if we really care about Mozart, Van Gogh and
Hitchcock--a moral obligation to question the development of technology.

The consequences of Web 2.0 are inherently dangerous for the vitality
of culture and the arts. Its empowering promises play upon that legacy
of the '60s--the creeping narcissism that Christopher Lasch described
so presciently, with its obsessive focus on the realization of the self.

Another word for narcissism is "personalization." Web 2.0 technology
personalizes culture so that it reflects ourselves rather than the
world around us. Blogs personalize media content so that all we read
are our own thoughts. Online stores personalize our preferences, thus
feeding back to us our own taste. Google personalizes searches so that
all we see are advertisements for products and services we already use.

Instead of Mozart, Van Gogh, or Hitchcock, all we get with the Web 2.0
revolution is more of ourselves.

STILL, the idea of inevitable technological progress has become so
seductive that it has been transformed into "laws." In Silicon Valley,
the most quoted of these laws, Moore's Law, states that the number of
transistors on a chip doubles every two years, thus doubling the
memory capacity of the personal computer every two years. On one
level, of course, Moore's Law is real and it has driven the Silicon
Valley economy. But there is an unspoken ethical dimension to Moore's
Law. It presumes that each advance in technology is accompanied by an
equivalent improvement in the condition of man.

But as Max Weber so convincingly demonstrated, the only really
reliable law of history is the Law of Unintended Consequences.

We know what happened first time around, in the dot.com boom of the
'90s. At first there was irrational exuberance. Then the dot.com
bubble popped; some people lost a lot of money and a lot of people
lost some money. But nothing really changed. Big media remained big
media and almost everything else--with the exception of Amazon.com and
eBay--withered away.

This time, however, the consequences of the digital media revolution
are much more profound. Apple and Google and Craigslist really are
revolutionizing our cultural habits, our ways of entertaining
ourselves, our ways of defining who we are. Traditional "elitist"
media is being destroyed by digital technologies. Newspapers are in
freefall. Network television, the modern equivalent of the dinosaur,
is being shaken by TiVo's overnight annihilation of the 30-second
commercial. The iPod is undermining the multibillion dollar music
industry. Meanwhile, digital piracy, enabled by Silicon Valley
hardware and justified by Silicon Valley intellectual property
communists such as Larry Lessig, is draining revenue from established
artists, movie studios, newspapers, record labels, and song writers.

Is this a bad thing? The purpose of our media and culture
industries--beyond the obvious need to make money and entertain
people--is to discover, nurture, and reward elite talent. Our
traditional mainstream media has done this with great success over the
last century. Consider Alfred Hitchcock's masterpiece, Vertigo and a
couple of other brilliantly talented works of the same name Vertigo:
the 1999 book called Vertigo, by Anglo-German writer W.G. Sebald, and
the 2004 song "Vertigo," by Irish rock star Bono. Hitchcock could
never have made his expensive, complex movies outside the Hollywood
studio system. Bono would never have become Bono without the music
industry's super-heavyweight marketing muscle. And W.G. Sebald, the
most obscure of this trinity of talent, would have remained an unknown
university professor had a high-end publishing house not had the good
taste to discover and distribute his work. Elite artists and an elite
media industry are symbiotic. If you democratize media, then you end
up democratizing talent. The unintended consequence of all this
democratization, to misquote Web 2.0 apologist Thomas Friedman, is
cultural "flattening." No more Hitchcocks, Bonos, or Sebalds. Just the
flat noise of opinion--Socrates's nightmare.

WHILE SOCRATES correctly gave warning about the dangers of a society
infatuated by opinion in Plato's Republic, more modern dystopian
writers--Huxley, Bradbury, and Orwell--got the Web 2.0 future exactly
wrong. Much has been made, for example, of the associations between
the all-seeing, all-knowing qualities of Google's search engine and
the Big Brother in Nineteen Eighty-Four. But Orwell's fear was the
disappearance of the individual right to self-expression. Thus Winston
Smith's great act of rebellion in Nineteen Eight-Four was his decision
to pick up a rusty pen and express his own thoughts:

    "The thing that he was about to do was open a diary. This was not
illegal, but if detected it was reasonably certain that it would be
punished by death . . . Winston fitted a nib into the penholder and
sucked it to get the grease off . . . He dipped the pen into the ink
and then faltered for just a second. A tremor had gone through his
bowels. To mark the paper was the decisive act."

In the Web 2.0 world, however, the nightmare is not the scarcity, but
the over-abundance of authors. Since everyone will use digital media
to express themselves, the only decisive act will be to not mark the
paper. Not writing as rebellion sounds bizarre--like a piece of
fiction authored by Franz Kafka. But one of the unintended
consequences of the Web 2.0 future may well be that everyone is an
author, while there is no longer any audience.

SPEAKING OF KAFKA, on the back cover of the January 2006 issue of
Poets and Writers magazine, there is a seductive Web 2.0 style
advertisement which reads:

    'Kafka toiled in obscurity and died penniless. If only he'd had a
website . . . .'

Presumably, if Kafka had had a website, it would be located at
kafka.com which is today an address owned by a mad left-wing blog
called The Biscuit Report. The front page of this site quotes some
words written by Kafka in his diary:

    "I have no memory for things I have learned, nor things I have
read, nor things experienced or heard, neither for people nor events;
I feel that I have experienced nothing, learned nothing, that I
actually know less than the average schoolboy, and that what I do know
is superficial, and that every second question is beyond me. I am
incapable of thinking deliberately; my thoughts run into a wall. I can
grasp the essence of things in isolation, but I am quite incapable of
coherent, unbroken thinking. I can't even tell a story properly; in
fact, I can scarcely talk . . ."

One of the unintended consequences of the Web 2.0 movement may well be
that we fall, collectively, into the amnesia that Kafka describes.
Without an elite mainstream media, we will lose our memory for things
learnt, read, experienced, or heard. The cultural consequences of this
are dire, requiring the authoritative voice of at least an Allan
Bloom, if not an Oswald Spengler. But here in Silicon Valley, on the
brink of the Web 2.0 epoch, there no longer are any Blooms or
Spenglers. All we have is the great seduction of citizen media,
democratized content and authentic online communities. And weblogs,
course. Millions and millions of blogs.

Andrew Keen is a veteran Silicon Valley entrepreneur and digital media
critic. He blogs at TheGreatSeduction.com and has recently launched
aftertv.com, a podcast chat show about media, culture, and technology.

-=snip=-

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/006/714fjczq.asp?pg=1


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift

From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Thu Feb 16 08:29:17 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Thu Feb 16 08:30:14 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The next war resolution may be a long one
Message-ID: <20060216132920.XYDW4002.centrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster>



Another pinko-liberal weighs in:



The next war resolution may be a long one

By George Will

Feb 16, 2006

WASHINGTON -- The next time a president asks Congress to pass something 
akin to what Congress passed on Sept. 14, 2001 -- the Authorization for 
Use of Military Force (AUMF) -- the resulting legislation might be 
longer than Proust's ``Remembrance of Things Past.'' Congress, 
remembering what is happening today, might stipulate all the statutes 
and constitutional understandings that it does not intend the act to 
repeal or supersede.

     But, then, perhaps no future president will ask for such 
congressional involvement in the gravest decision government makes -- 
going to war. Why would future presidents ask, if the present 
administration successfully asserts its current doctrine? It is that 
whenever the nation is at war, the other two branches of government 
have 
a radically diminished pertinence to governance, and the president 
determines what that pertinence shall be. This monarchical doctrine 
emerges from the administration's stance that warrantless surveillance 
by the National Security Administration targeting American citizens on 
American soil is a legal exercise of the president's inherent powers as 
commander in chief, even though it violates the clear language of the 
1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which was written to 
regulate wartime surveillance.

     Administration supporters incoherently argue that the AUMF 
authorized the NSA surveillance -- and that if the administration had 
asked, Congress would have refused to authorize it. The first assertion 
is implausible: None of the 518 legislators who voted for the AUMF has 
said that he or she then thought it contained the permissiveness the 
administration now discerns in it. Did the administration, until the 
program became known two months ago? Or was the AUMF then seized upon 
as 
a justification? Equally implausible is the idea that in the months 
after 9/11, Congress would have refused to revise the 1978 law in ways 
that would authorize, with some supervision, NSA surveillance that, 
even 
in today's more contentious climate, most serious people consider 
conducive to national security.

     Anyway, the argument that the AUMF contained a completely 
unexpressed congressional intent to empower the president to disregard 
the FISA regime is risible coming from this administration. It famously 
opposes those who discover unstated meanings in the Constitution's text 
and do not strictly construe the language of statutes.

     The administration's argument about the legality of the NSA 
program 
also has been discordant with the administration's argument about the 
urgency of extending the Patriot Act. Many provisions of that act are 
superfluous if a president's wartime powers are as sweeping as today's 
president says they are.

     And if, as some administration supporters say, amending the 1978 
act to meet today's exigencies would have given to America's enemies 
dangerous information about our capabilities and intentions, surely the 
1978 act and the Patriot Act were both informative. Intelligence 
professionals reportedly say that the behavior of suspected terrorists 
has changed since Dec. 16, when The New York Times revealed the NSA 
surveillance. But surely America's enemies have assumed that our 
technologically sophisticated nation has been trying, in ways known and 
unknown, to eavesdrop on them.

     Besides, terrorism is not the only new danger of this era. Another 
is the administration's argument that because the president is 
commander 
in chief, he is the ``sole organ for the nation in foreign affairs.'' 
That non sequitur is refuted by the Constitution's plain language, 
which 
empowers Congress to ratify treaties, declare war, fund and regulate 
military forces and make laws ``necessary and proper'' for the 
execution 
of all presidential powers. Those powers do not include deciding that a 
law -- FISA, for example -- is somehow exempted from the presidential 
duty to ``take care that the laws be faithfully executed.''

     The administration, in which mere obduracy sometimes serves as 
political philosophy, pushes the limits of assertion while disdaining 
collaboration. This faux toughness is folly, given that the Supreme 
Court, when rejecting President Truman's claim that his inherent powers 
as commander in chief allowed him to seize steel mills during the 
Korean 
War, held that presidential authority is weakest when it clashes with 
Congress.

     Immediately after 9/11, the president rightly did what he thought 
the emergency required, and rightly thought that the 1978 law was 
inadequate to new threats posed by a new kind of enemy using new 
technologies of communication. Arguably he should have begun 
surveillance of domestic-to-domestic calls -- the kind the 9/11 
terrorists made.

     But 53 months later, Congress should make all necessary actions 
lawful by authorizing the president to take those actions, with 
suitable 
supervision. It should do so with language that does not stigmatize 
what 
he has been doing, but that implicitly refutes the doctrine that the 
authorization is superfluous.

George F. Will is a 1976 Pulitzer Prize winner, whose columns are 
syndicated in more than 400 magazines and newspapers worldwide.







From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Thu Feb 16 08:33:26 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Thu Feb 16 08:42:14 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Muslim bites dog
Message-ID: <20060216133328.SJOR8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@enigmaster>


Muslim bites dog

By Ann Coulter

Feb 15, 2006

The amazing part of the great Danish cartoon caper isn't that Muslims 
immediately engage in acts of mob violence when things don't go their 
way. That is de rigueur for the Religion of Peace. Their immediate 
response to all bad news is mass violence. That's a "dog bites man" 
story and belongs on page B-34, next to the grade school hot lunch menu 
and the birth notices.

After an Egyptian ferry capsized recently, killing hundreds of 
passengers, a whole braying mob of passengers' relatives staged an 
organized attack on the company, throwing furniture out the window and 
burning the building to the ground. Witnesses say it was the most 
violent ocean liner-related incident since Carnival Cruise Lines fired 
Kathie Lee Gifford.

The "offense to Islam" ruse is merely an excuse for Muslims to revert 
to 
their default mode: rioting and setting things on fire. These people 
have a serious anger management problem.

So it's not exactly a scoop that Muslims are engaging in violence. A 
front-page story would be "Offended Muslims Remain Calm."

What is stunning about this spectacle is that their violence is 
working. 
With a few exceptions, the media won't show the cartoons that incited 
mass violence around the globe (see the full gallery here). And yet, 
week after week, American patriots endure "The Boondocks" without 
complaint. Where's the justice here?

Perhaps we could put aside our national, ongoing, post-9/11 Muslim 
butt-
kissing contest and get on with the business at hand: Bombing Syria 
back 
to the stone age and then permanently disarming Iran.

The mass violence by Muslims over some cartoons reminds us why we have 
to worry when countries like Iran start talking about having nukes. 
Iran 
is led by a lunatic who makes a big point of denying the Holocaust. 
Indeed, in response to the Muhammad cartoons, one Iranian newspaper is 
soliciting cartoons about the Holocaust. (So far the only submissions 
have come from Ted Rall, Garry Trudeau and The New York Times.)

Iran is certainly implying that it has nukes. Maybe they do, maybe they 
don't, but you can't take chances with berserk psychotics. What if they 
start having one of these bipolar episodes with a nuclear bomb?

If you don't want to get shot by the police, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, then 
don't point a toy gun at them. Or, as I believe our motto should be 
after 9/11: Jihad monkey talks tough; jihad monkey takes the 
consequences. Sorry, I realize that's offensive. How about "camel 
jockey"? What? Now what'd I say? Boy, you tent merchants sure are 
touchy. Grow up, would you?

In addition, I believe we are legally required to be bombing Syria 
right 
now. And unlike the Koran's alleged prohibition on depictions of 
Muhammad, I've got documentation to back that up!

Muslims in Syria torched the Danish Embassy a few weeks ago, burning it 
to the ground. According to everyone, the Syrian government was behind 
the attack -- the prime minister of Denmark, Condoleezza Rice and White 
House spokesman Scott McClellan. I think even the gals on "The View" 
have acknowledged that Damascus was behind this one.

McClellan said: "We will hold Syria responsible for such violent 
demonstrations since they do not take place in that country without 
government knowledge and support."

We are signatories to a treaty that requires us to do more than "hold 
Syria responsible" for this attack. Syria has staged a state-sponsored 
attack on our NATO partner on Danish soil, the Danish embassy. 
According 
to the terms of the NATO treaty, the United States and most of Europe 
have an obligation to go to war with Syria.

Or is NATO -- like the conventions of civilized behavior, personal 
hygiene and grooming -- inapplicable when Muslims are involved? 
Liberals 
complain about "unilateral action," but under the terms of a treaty 
created by Dean Acheson and the Democrats, France, Germany, Spain and 
Greece are all obliged to go to war with us against Syria. Why, it's 
almost like a coalition! OK, Mr. Commie: Saddle up!

Ann Coulter is the author of How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must), 
Treason, Slander, and High Crimes and Misdemeanors.






From mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us  Thu Feb 16 10:02:10 2006
From: mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Thu Feb 16 10:04:17 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Hunting Invitation
Message-ID: <20060216150220.DOJN8484.centrmmtao02.cox.net@enigmaster>



-------------- next part --------------
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From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Thu Feb 16 14:35:47 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Thu Feb 16 14:36:18 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] New Atm Instructions
Message-ID: <20060216193551.IBQC5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================

A sign in the Bank Lobby reads: "Please note that this Bank is 
installing new Drive-through teller machines enabling customers to 
withdraw cash without leaving their vehicles. Customers using this new 
facility are requested to use the procedures outlined below when 
accessing their accounts.
  
After months of careful research, MALE & FEMALE procedures have been 
developed. Please follow the appropriate steps for your gender."
  
 MALE PROCEDURE:
  
   1. Drive up to the cash machine
   2. Put down your car window.
   3. Insert card into machine and enter PIN.
   4. Enter amount of cash required and withdraw.
   5. Retrieve card, cash and receipt.
   6. Put window up.
   7. Drive off.
   ***********************************************************
  
   FEMALE PROCEDURE:
  
   1. Drive up to cash machine.
   2. Reverse and back up the required amount to align car window with 
the machine.
   3. Set parking brake, put the window down.
   4. Find handbag, remove all contents on to passenger seat to locate 
card.
   5. Tell person on cell phone you will call them back and hang up
   6. Attempt to insert card into machine.
   7. Open car door to allow easier access to machine due to its 
excessive distance from the car.
   8. Insert card.
   9. Re-insert card the right way.
   10. Dig through handbag to find diary with your PIN written on the 
inside back page.
   11. Enter PIN.
   12. Press cancel and re-enter correct PIN.
   13. Enter amount of cash required.
   14. Check makeup in rear view mirror.
   15. Retrieve cash and receipt.
   16. Empty handbag again to locate wallet and place cash inside.
   17 Write debit amount in check register and place receipt in back of 
checkbook.
   18. Re-check makeup.
   19. Drive forward 2 feet.
   20. Reverse back to cash machine.
   21. Retrieve card.
   22. Re-empty hand bag, locate card holder, and place card into the 
slot provided.
   23. Give dirty look to irate male driver waiting behind you.
   24. Restart stalled engine and pull off.
   25. Redial person on cell phone.
   26. Drive for 2 to 3 miles.
   27. Release Parking Brake.
  


SEND THIS TO A MAN WHO NEEDS A LAUGH AND TO THE LADIES YOU THINK CAN 
HANDLE IT!

    



===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================



From sweeks1951 at netzero.net  Fri Feb 17 01:53:21 2006
From: sweeks1951 at netzero.net (Steve Weeks)
Date: Fri Feb 17 01:54:33 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
In-Reply-To: <20060216193551.IBQC5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster>
Message-ID: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIOEHKCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>

Saw a really bright meteor headed out over the Pacific at about 7:00 PM
tonight. Brightest one I've seen in my life by far ... saw it through a thin
cloud layer immediately after walking out onto the patio. One of those "What
the ? .... Oh yeah, a meteor" moments.

I don't see any current peaks for meteor showers right now. Must have been a
rogue or another part of MIR coming loose.






From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Fri Feb 17 02:14:43 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Feb 17 02:15:32 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
In-Reply-To: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIOEHKCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>
References: <20060216193551.IBQC5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster>
	<PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIOEHKCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <37995.70.172.219.12.1140160483.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Fri, February 17, 2006 1:53 am, Steve Weeks said:

> I don't see any current peaks for meteor showers right now. Must have
> been a rogue or another part of MIR coming loose.

Darn Soviet junk!

Sounds like a nice moment though...


-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Fri Feb 17 02:41:08 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Feb 17 02:41:31 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
In-Reply-To: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIOEHKCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>
References: <20060216193551.IBQC5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster>
	<PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIOEHKCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <38069.70.172.219.12.1140162068.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Fri, February 17, 2006 1:53 am, Steve Weeks said:

> I don't see any current peaks for meteor showers right now. Must have
> been a rogue or another part of MIR coming loose.

Darn Soviet junk!

Sounds like a nice moment though...


-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Fri Feb 17 07:47:12 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Fri Feb 17 07:47:33 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
In-Reply-To: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIOEHKCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>
References: <20060216193551.IBQC5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster>
	<PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIOEHKCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602170447i1d59a920w73964a5ea400d5a@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/17/06, Steve Weeks <sweeks1951@netzero.net> wrote:
> Saw a really bright meteor headed out over the Pacific at about 7:00 PM
> tonight. Brightest one I've seen in my life by far ... saw it through a thin
> cloud layer immediately after walking out onto the patio. One of those "What
> the ? .... Oh yeah, a meteor" moments.
>
> I don't see any current peaks for meteor showers right now. Must have been a
> rogue or another part of MIR coming loose.
>
>
Way cool.
Daniel

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Fri Feb 17 09:42:12 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Fri Feb 17 09:40:35 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] the new york daily news . . .
Message-ID: <200602170942.12991.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

. . . takes a brave, bold stand: it has come out unequivocally against 
accidental electrocution:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/392279p-332410c.html
-- 
dep

The whole truth is generally the ally of virtue; a half-truth is
always the ally of some vice.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Fri Feb 17 10:23:44 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Fri Feb 17 10:24:36 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: This Just In: Bush Responsible for Recent
	Blizzard
Message-ID: <20060217152345.OFQF4002.centrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


President Bush responsible for Blizzard



> 
> 
> Bush Fails To Prevent East Coast Blizzard. Minorities Hit Hardest 
>  02/12/06.
> 
> As President Bush and his staff cowered in the White House, the snow 
> continued to pile up on the many poor and African American victims 
> who could not afford to get out of town or to safety in Florida. 
> Crucial supplies of blankets, hot cocoa, popcorn and dark rum - so 
> essential to surviving the stress of any major snowstorm - lay in 
> stores undelivered.
> 
> "Where is the government? I need my sidewalk shoveled so I can get 
> out to buy my lottery tickets!" said one D.C. resident from his 
> living room. "Why are we wasting money in Iraq when we could be 
> spending it here on me?"
> 
> Progressive blogs blasted the President for his inaction. "We find 
> the timing terribly suspicious - just as the Domestic Spying hearings 
> kick into high gear, what happens? A major northeast Blizzard. Why 
> now?" wrote blogger FAmericanNBush2.
> 
> Hearings into the Blizzards' effect on hearings are almost a 
> certainty. Howard Dean has suggested he will call for an 
> investigation once his new medications kick in and John Kerry took a 
> break from the sporting activities of the glamorous super-rich in 
> some exotic locale (random choice: Ice Sailing in Finland) to call 
> for new legislation outlawing snowstorms. "The Republican Congress 
> has dropped the ball once again. I have always been a staunch 
> supporter of anti-snow legislation, except for certain locations 
> where I ski. Snow has no business on our roads and the President and 
> Congress knows that."
> 
> Calls for impeachment over "SnowGate" as some are calling it already 
> are mounting as deeply as the snow itself, and what will be 
> discovered underneath will prove to have a truly chilling effect on 
> the Republicans, as the inevitable thaw proceeds.
> 
> Or something like that.

		

===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================



From spmaiorca at cox.net  Fri Feb 17 12:41:30 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Fri Feb 17 12:44:37 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
Message-ID: <20060217174043.REIE17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

Mir lasted longer than sky lab....
-Patrick
> 
> From: "Bob Bernstein" <zoidberg@legomenon.org>
> Date: 2006/02/16 Thu PM 11:14:43 PST
> To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life." <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
> 
> 
> On Fri, February 17, 2006 1:53 am, Steve Weeks said:
> 
> > I don't see any current peaks for meteor showers right now. Must have
> > been a rogue or another part of MIR coming loose.
> 
> Darn Soviet junk!
> 
> Sounds like a nice moment though...
> 
> 
> -- 
> Bob Bernstein
> 
> To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
> Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
> To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
> That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;
> 
>          Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Fri Feb 17 15:35:22 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Feb 17 15:36:41 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The next war resolution may be a long one
In-Reply-To: <20060216132920.XYDW4002.centrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster>
References: <20060216132920.XYDW4002.centrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster>
Message-ID: <43F6338A.8020605@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Mike Riddle wrote:

> Another pinko-liberal weighs in:
> 
> The next war resolution may be a long one
> 
> By George Will

This was a very weak performance by Will, more a hissy fit than any
considerations that might have advanced the discussion. Will seems to
think that no more is needed than a legalistic tweak of FISA, so that
executive actions now, in his opinion, illegal under the terms of that
Act, will suddenly become legal.  He is clearly uncomfortable with
granting the executive *any* prerogatives in the conduct of espionage,
 but just as clearly the executive must retain *some* power to pursue
*some* espionage free of any veto -- or leaks -- from the other
branches. The executive is checked by the ballot box.

The problem with FISA is its flawed conception: that a clear line can
be drawn between 'domestic' and 'foreign' intelligence. Already the
criteria for determining someone to be "an American person" under the
terms of the Act are ridiculously wide, and include all manner of
*non-citizens*. FISA is a creature of a time long since gone by, and
it has worn out its usefulness, and welcome. Was not 9/11 enough of a
lesson that any notion of a "wall," of dividing intel-gathering along
domestic vs. foreign lines, was a fatal mistake.

The wall problem has been remedied to some extent by the Patriot Act,
but FISA, which rests on the same stupid
distinction-without-a-difference, needs to go also. The editorial page
of the WSJ has for a long time put forward a good case that Congress,
not some new jury-rigged organ of the judiciary, should be conducting
whatever oversight is needed and/or wanted, consistent with not
ham-stringing the executive at absolutely every turn of the espionage
wheel.

To my mind, the piece by Richard Epstein, posted here by moi a few
days ago, was much more useful than Will's in framing the argument.
But he too fell victim to a false dichotomy, that of 'making policy'
-- presumably Congress' role in military and intelligence matters, and
'administering policy' -- the job of the Executive. However, Epstein's
discussion betrays a lively sense that the balance of powers is indeed
*a balance*, constantly verging towards disequilibrium, and therefore
constantly in need of trimming, as one would a sailboat or an
airplane. Will, on the other hand, like many intellectuals, is made
unhappy by any unpleasantness, any loose ends, any fuzziness at all in
his perception of our constitution. (Not "Constitution," but
"constitution".) He wants this messy business nailed down once and for
all. Period. Because he said so.

George Will is the kind of guy business men and women HATE to see in a
boardroom. Intellectuals (and engineers) need not apply!


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Fri Feb 17 16:10:47 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Fri Feb 17 16:08:41 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
In-Reply-To: <20060217174043.REIE17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
References: <20060217174043.REIE17006.fed1rmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <200602171610.48059.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:
| Mir lasted longer than sky lab....

but it didn't last as long as it was supposed to. and skylab didn't 
burst into flames and do other things to entertain the astronauts 
aboard.
-- 
dep

Instead of invading the family with the blundering bureaucracy that
mismanages the public services, it would be far more philosophical to
work the reform the other way round.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Fri Feb 17 16:18:56 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Fri Feb 17 16:17:41 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The next war resolution may be a long one
In-Reply-To: <43F6338A.8020605@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
References: <20060216132920.XYDW4002.centrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster>
	<43F6338A.8020605@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <200602171618.56131.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Bob Bernstein:
| Mike Riddle wrote:
| > Another pinko-liberal weighs in:
| >
| > The next war resolution may be a long one
| >
| > By George Will
|
| This was a very weak performance by Will, more a hissy fit than any
| considerations that might have advanced the discussion. Will seems to
| think that no more is needed than a legalistic tweak of FISA, so that
| executive actions now, in his opinion, illegal under the terms of
| that Act, will suddenly become legal.  

george will is uncomfortable with the contents of the constitution, 
probably the result of having spent too much time in washington. a 
useful remedy would be that for every year a person spends in 
washington a year be spent working in the fields.

(oh, and lawyers, too -- imagine the "dream team", following o.j.'s 
acquittal, spending the next two years digging potatoes!)
-- 
dep

The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our
enemies; probably because they are generally the same people.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Fri Feb 17 16:26:22 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Fri Feb 17 16:28:41 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
Message-ID: <20060217212640.ILMR20875.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>


> 
> From: dep <dep@drippingwithirony.com>
> Date: 2006/02/17 Fri PM 01:10:47 PST
> To: "Right-minded discussion of computing, politics,
> 	and life." <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
> 
> quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:
> | Mir lasted longer than sky lab....
> 
> but it didn't last as long as it was supposed to. and skylab didn't 
> burst into flames and do other things to entertain the astronauts 
> aboard.
> -- 
> dep
>true may be if the Sky lab stayed in use until 1989 it would have burst into flames and such. We didn't let it become a peice of used up junk.
-Patrick

From prather.js at verizon.net  Fri Feb 17 16:39:36 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Fri Feb 17 16:40:42 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The next war resolution may be a long one
In-Reply-To: <43F6338A.8020605@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <0IUU0017NPI0QRS1@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 15:35:22 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

>George Will is the kind of guy business men and women HATE to see in a
>boardroom. Intellectuals (and engineers) need not apply!

Good remarks throughout, Bob.  (I just highlighted the last
paragraph as a prop for the reply.)

Cheers/eCS,

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Fri Feb 17 16:40:44 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Fri Feb 17 16:41:42 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The next war resolution may be a long one
In-Reply-To: <200602171618.56131.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <200602172140.k1HLekWh012615@oasis.novia.net>

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 16:18:56 -0500, dep wrote:

>(oh, and lawyers, too -- imagine the "dream team", following o.j.'s 
>acquittal, spending the next two years digging potatoes!)




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From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Fri Feb 17 18:40:03 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Fri Feb 17 18:40:45 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: A typical D.C. overreaction
Message-ID: <20060217234003.VFGM4002.centrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


David Brooks: Uproar over hunting accident was a typical D.C. 
overreaction

BY DAVID BROOKS
	 

NEW YORK TIMES

One of the most impressive things about us in Washington, you must 
admit, is our ability to unfailingly play our assigned roles. History 
throws unusual circumstances before our gaze. But no matter how strange 
they may appear at first, we are always able to squeeze them into one of 
our preapproved boxes so we may utter our usual clich?s.

The Battle of Corpus Christi is but the latest example of our capacity 
to transform fact into stereotype.

On a personal level, the Cheney-Whittington accident was a sad but 
unremarkable event. Two men go hunting. Both are sloppy, and one friend 
shoots another. The victim is suffering but gracious. The shooter is 
anguished in his guilt.

"The image of him falling is something I will never be able to get out 
of my mind," Dick Cheney told Brit Hume of Fox News on Wednesday, 
adding, "It was one of the worst days of my life."

Afterward, Cheney looked back, relived the moment and took 
responsibility. "It was not Harry's fault. You can't blame anybody 
else," Cheney said. "I'm the guy who pulled the trigger and shot my 
friend."

In normal life, people would look at this event and see two decent men 
caught in a twist of fate. They would feel concern for the victim and 
sympathy for the man who fired the gun.

But we in Washington are able to rise above the normal human reaction. 
We have our jobs. We have our roles.

So in the days after the Cheney-Whittington accident, liberal pundits 
had to live up to their responsibility to manufacture a series of 
unsubstantiated allegations while turning the episode into a Clifford 
Odets-style tale of plutocrats gone wild. "Was he drunk? I mean, these 
are ultrarich Republicans, at a weekend, fun-time hunting," pundit 
Lawrence O'Donnell wondered on MSNBC.

Meanwhile, over at the blogosphere, the keyboard jockeys had a 
responsibility to sniff up vast conspiracies and get lost in creepy 
minutiae. "The 50,000-acre Armstrong Ranch is in Kenedy County. So I 
figure the Armstrongs probably have a lot of pull in county government. 
So, just a question: How thorough was the investigation of what 
happened?" influential blogger Josh Marshall queried darkly.

Earlier, Marshall veered off, as he must, into picayune and skin-
crawling theorizing about the path that the pellets took through 
Whittington's body:

"Would the weapon and ammunition Dick Cheney shot have the force to 
imbed pellets near Whittington's heart at 30 yards? These pellets would 
have to have pierced his clothing, his skin and then lodged inside the 
body cavity, somewhere near or around his heart. The shot came from the 
right, and the heart is on the left, so that might add to the amount of 
tissue needing to be traversed."

Meanwhile, we in the regular press have our own stereotypes to guide us. 
We are assigned by the Fates to turn every bad thing into Watergate, to 
fill the air with dark lamentations about cover-ups and appearances of 
impropriety and the arrogance of power. We have to follow the money. (So 
was born the stories of the potentially missing $7 hunting stamp.)

We are impelled to elevate horse race over substance and write tales in 
which the quality of the message management takes precedence over the 
importance or unimportance of what's being said.

Then, rushing to the footlights, come the politicians, with their 
alchemist's ability to turn reality into spin. It would have been 
natural, and probably smart, for some politician to put politics aside 
and say simply that Cheney and his friend were to be sympathized with at 
this moment. But life is a campaign, and they are merely players.

"The refusal of this administration to level with the American people in 
matters large and small is very disturbing," Hillary Clinton declared. 
Nancy Pelosi added, "Open government would demand that the vice 
president come clean on what happened there."

Finally, there is the office of the vice president, inevitably failing 
to surpass expectations. The vice president's role, on this as on all 
days, is to treat the press and the Washington community in general as a 
plague-ridden horde, from whom it is possible, upon the merest 
conversation or contact, to catch some soul-destroying disease.

So, of course, the vice president was compelled to recreate his role as 
Voldemort, Keeper of the Secrets.

We have, when you put it all together, created a political climate 
impeccably sterilized of spontaneity and normal human response. We have 
our roles, dear audience. Ours is not to feel and think. Ours is but to 
spin or die. 







===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================




From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Fri Feb 17 19:35:52 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Feb 17 19:36:44 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The next war resolution may be a long one
In-Reply-To: <0IUU0017NPI0QRS1@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <43F6338A.8020605@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
	<0IUU0017NPI0QRS1@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <40724.70.172.219.12.1140222952.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Fri, February 17, 2006 4:39 pm, Jerry Prather said:

> Good remarks throughout, Bob.

Sir,

You are obviously a man of exceedingly rare taste and erudition!




-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Sat Feb 18 11:52:34 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Sat Feb 18 11:52:59 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The next war resolution may be a long one
In-Reply-To: <40724.70.172.219.12.1140222952.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <200602181652.k1IGqZic015835@oasis.novia.net>

On Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:35:52 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>On Fri, February 17, 2006 4:39 pm, Jerry Prather said:

>> Good remarks throughout, Bob.

>Sir,

>You are obviously a man of exceedingly rare taste and erudition!

Nah, but even squids occasionally get something right!


,-)





From sweeks1951 at netzero.net  Sat Feb 18 15:48:35 2006
From: sweeks1951 at netzero.net (Steve Weeks)
Date: Sat Feb 18 15:50:02 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
In-Reply-To: <200602171610.48059.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIAEHOCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>

| Mir lasted longer than sky lab....

but it didn't last as long as it was supposed to. and skylab didn't
burst into flames and do other things to entertain the astronauts
aboard.
--
dep


I thought I read recently that the Russians were reneging on some of their
space station obligations because they were putting more money into MIR
because someone was paying them ... commercial .... Don't remember the
details.



From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Feb 18 16:56:57 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sat Feb 18 16:57:03 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Rosebud's Conjecture
Message-ID: <43F79829.3050807@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

http://rosebud.freeshell.org/archives/2006/02/index.html#e2006-02-18T13_38_51.txt

-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From prather.js at verizon.net  Sat Feb 18 17:22:21 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sat Feb 18 17:23:06 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Rosebud's Conjecture
In-Reply-To: <43F79829.3050807@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <0IUW001OQM5AQXG5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 16:56:57 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

>http://rosebud.freeshell.org/archives/2006/02/index.html#e2006-02-18T13_38_51.txt

Of course!  A law needs to be passed to cover everything, even
the cat's litter box.


Jerry
--
My cat and I are alike in many ways.  We both are gray; we both are fat; and we both dig in his litter box.
PS: Santa, we both want a new mouse for Christmas.

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Sat Feb 18 17:39:24 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sat Feb 18 17:40:04 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Rosebud's Conjecture
In-Reply-To: <0IUW001OQM5AQXG5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <43F79829.3050807@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
	<0IUW001OQM5AQXG5@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <44026.70.172.219.12.1140302364.squirrel@legomenon.org>

On Sat, February 18, 2006 5:22 pm, Jerry Prather said:

> Of course!  A law needs to be passed to cover everything, even
> the cat's litter box.

Prather's Axiom?:

> My cat and I are alike in many ways.  We both are gray; we both are
> fat; and we both dig in his litter box.

Prather's Corollary?:

> PS: Santa, we both want a new mouse for Christmas.

Of course, if you blogged your laws, they would contain UTC
time-stamps down to the second in their filenames!

Btw, Mr. Rosebud, of 'Rosebud's Conjecture' fame, is a very dear and
close personal friend of mine!


-- 
Bob Bernstein

To thee I owe that fatal bent of mind,
Still to unhappy, restless thoughts inclined:
To thee what oft I vainly strive to hide,
That scorn of fools, by fools mistook for pride;

         Swift, to his "Malignant goddess" 1693.

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sat Feb 18 19:07:36 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sat Feb 18 19:06:05 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
In-Reply-To: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIAEHOCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>
References: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIAEHOCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>
Message-ID: <200602181907.36139.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Steve Weeks:

| I thought I read recently that the Russians were reneging on some of
| their space station obligations because they were putting more money
| into MIR because someone was paying them ... commercial .... Don't
| remember the details.

hope it wasn't anytime very recently, inasmuch as the thing crashed back 
to earth in march 2001.

-- 
dep

Instead of invading the family with the blundering bureaucracy that
mismanages the public services, it would be far more philosophical to
work the reform the other way round.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sat Feb 18 19:17:53 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sat Feb 18 19:30:06 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] new favorite movie
Message-ID: <200602181917.53938.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

funny how things unfold.

a couple of years ago, when it had first come out, i much wanted to see 
-- and a friend had what turned out to be a terrible bootleg copy of -- 
"big fish." the copy was so bad that i gave it back unwatched. kind of 
figured i'd get around to seeing it sometime.

last week i was at walmart and there in the bin of cheap movies (because 
they were on vhs, not dvd) was "big fish." i got it for $6 and today i 
watched it. my, goodness! what a wonderful movie!

(when i write a big long story sometime, it will include birds flying 
into glass. on a saturday evening in february 2002, i was driving to 
the store when an owl flew into the driver-side window of the truck and 
dropped stone dead to the ground. the romans would have thought this an 
ill omen, a very ill omen, and certainly things did not go all that 
well for the few years that followed. today, at the instant of 
denouement of the movie, a large black bird flew into the kitchen 
window a few feet from me, with a loud and startling bang. it 
apparently picked itself up, dusted itself off, and flew away, though. 
i'm taking it to be an undoing of whatever evil the owl brought down 
upon me.)

anyway, if you haven't seen "big fish," it is well worth the rental.
-- 
dep

War is not the best way of settling differences; it is the only way of
preventing their being settled for you.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Sat Feb 18 19:45:01 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sat Feb 18 19:46:05 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] new favorite movie
In-Reply-To: <200602181917.53938.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
References: <200602181917.53938.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <44378.70.172.219.12.1140309901.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Sat, February 18, 2006 7:17 pm, dep said:

> "big fish." the copy was so bad that i gave it back unwatched. kind
> of figured i'd get around to seeing it sometime.

Agreed. I had to go to imdb.com to remind myself of it, but it is
great. Of course, imho, anything Albert Finney does is great, because
it's him. I like to think I have a little piece of Finney inside me
somewhere. (Ditto Alec Guiness and Richard Harris...)

> i'm taking it to be an undoing of whatever evil the owl brought down
> upon me.)

Sounds like a personal matter to me. You may want to bring it to the
chaplain.


-- 
Bob Bernstein

...the care of souls cannot belong to the civil magistrate, because
his power consists only in outward force; but true and saving religion
consists in the inward persuasion of the mind, without which nothing
can be acceptable to God.

    -- John Locke, A Letter On Toleration 1689

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Feb 18 23:18:02 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sat Feb 18 23:18:07 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Whither .com?
Message-ID: <43F7F17A.1000001@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

"Hang on to your wallet!
"There?s a scam in the works. If it happens, it?s going to adversely
affect all of us.
"VeriSign wants to control the .COM registry forever."

http://www.bobparsons.com/dotcomscam.html

I have done a little bit of business with godaddy.com lately, and I
like the way they operate. I have no reason to think this guy --
Parsons, president of godaddy --  is not credible. Sure, he's a
competitor, but if he is distorting the VeriSign/Icann proposal in
major ways, I'd like to hear about it.



-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From sweeks1951 at netzero.net  Sat Feb 18 23:43:07 2006
From: sweeks1951 at netzero.net (Steve Weeks)
Date: Sat Feb 18 23:44:08 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l]Meteors
In-Reply-To: <200602181907.36139.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <PLEOKOKEGGMGDAPEFPHIKEHPCFAA.sweeks1951@netzero.net>

| I thought I read recently that the Russians were reneging on some of
| their space station obligations because they were putting more money
| into MIR because someone was paying them ... commercial .... Don't
| remember the details.

hope it wasn't anytime very recently, inasmuch as the thing crashed back
to earth in march 2001.

--
dep

I did read this recently ... just did not notice it was dated ....So I
googled , which is always uncomfortable for me but this time I had to change
my underwear afterwards. I must have been following links in a current story
which lead to old stories that I thought were current.
Should have known Mir was toast thought.





From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb 19 07:44:28 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sun Feb 19 07:45:16 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] this week's steyn
Message-ID: <200602190744.28677.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn19.html

Cheering tidbits lighten otherwise grim week 

February 19, 2006

BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST 
 
In an otherwise grim week -- at least on unimportant peripheral matters 
like Iranian nukes -- three things cheered me up. The first was the 
decision of Iran's bakers to rename Danish pastries "Roses of the 
Prophet Muhammed pastries.'' Has a ring to it, don't you think? If 
they're looking for a slogan, how about "Iranian pastry: There's 
nothing flakier. Except our president."

The second cheery sight was the destruction of a McDonald's in Lahore by 
the usual excitable young lads from the religion of pieces. Apparently 
the lively Pakistanis had burned every single Danish target in the city 
-- one early Victor Borge LP left behind by the last British governor 
-- and had been obliged to diversify. So they dragged Ronald McDonald 
out of the joint, torched him in the street and danced around his 
flaming remains shouting "Death to America! Death to Britain! Death to 
Tony Blair!"

I'm not sure I even get that. Ronald and Tony seem kind of similar from 
a distance but even on the 
all-infidels-look-alike-to-me-especially-when-they're-alight thesis 
you'd think they weren't that easily confused.

The third jolly event of the week was those other excitable fellows -- 
the Big Media White House reporters -- jumping up and down shouting 
"Death to Dick Cheney!" NBC's David Gregory, the George Clooney of the 
press corps, was yelling truth to power about why the 
Elmer-Fudd-in-gun-rampage story was released to "a local Corpus Christi 
newspaper, not the White House press corps at large.'' I know how he 
feels. I remember, like, four or five years ago -- early September, 
maybe second week -- there was this building collapse in New York and I 
had to learn about it from the TV because this notoriously secretive 
paranoid administration couldn't even e-mail me a timely press release. 
For an NBC guy discovering that some hicksville nowhere-burg 
one-stop-light feed-price sheet got tipped off before he did is like a 
dowager duchess turning up at the royal banquet to discover the 
scullery maid's been seated next to the queen. 

So anyway David Gregory's going bananas and yelling "I will yell!" and 
"Don't be a jerk!" at the White House press secretary, and there's more 
smoke coming out of his ears than from Ronald McDonald in Lahore, and 
I'm thinking, you know, maybe Karl's latest range of Rovebots that he 
planted in American media corporations are just a wee bit too 
parodically self-absorbed to be plausible. And then this lady pipes up 
and asks, "Would this be much more serious if the man had died?"

Well, maybe. And maybe it would be even ever so much more serious still 
if, after peppering him with birdshot, Cheney had dragged him into a 
safe house in the Sunni Triangle and decapitated him with a rusty 
scimitar while shouting "Allahu Ahkbar!" and then sold the video to 
al-Jazeera. 

Fortunately, the Washington Post had that wise old bird David Ignatius 
to put it in the proper historical context: "This incident," he mused, 
"reminds me a bit of Sen. Edward Kennedy's delay in informing 
Massachusetts authorities about his role in the fatal automobile 
accident at Chappaquiddick in 1969."

Hmm. Let's see. On the one hand, the guy leaves the gal at the bottom of 
the river struggling for breath pressed up against the window in some 
small air pocket while he pulls himself out of the briny, staggers 
home, sleeps it off and saunters in to inform the cops the following 
day that, oh yeah, there was some broad down there. And, on the other 
hand, the guy calls 911, has the other fellow taken to the hospital, 
lets the sheriff know promptly but neglects to fax David Gregory's 
make-up girl!

One can only hope others agree with Ignatius' insightful analogy, and 
that the reprehensible Cheney will be hounded from public life the way 
Kennedy was all those years ago. One would hate to think folks would 
just let it slide and three decades from now this Cheney guy will be 
sitting on some committee picking Supreme Court justices and whatnot.

Meanwhile, from Malaysia to Jordan to Scandinavia, it was a bad week for 
journalists increasingly constrained -- not to mention fired and 
otherwise humiliated -- in their ability to cover the big story of our 
time. If I had to pick a single moment to contrast with the hilariously 
parochial narcissist buffoons of the Washington press, it would be 
another press conference in another government building, this time in 
Oslo, called by Norway's minister of labor. Surrounded by cabinet 
ministers and a phalanx of imams, Velbjorn Selbekk, the editor of an 
obscure Christian publication called Magazinet, issued an abject public 
apology for reprinting the Danish Muhammed cartoons. He had initially 
stood firm in the face of Muslim death threats and the usual lack of 
support from Europe's political class, but in the end Mr. Selbekk was 
prevailed upon to recant and the head of Norway's Islamic Council, 
Mohammed Hamdan, graciously accepted the apology and assured the 
prostrate editor that he was now under his personal protection. As the 
American author Bruce Bawer commented, "It was a picture right out of a 
sharia courtroom."

In Canada, by contrast, the Western Standard (for which I also write) 
stood firm in its decision to publish the cartoons, and as a result is 
suffering legal harassment from Muslim lobby groups and has been banned 
from both Air Canada and two of the country's leading bookstore chains, 
Indigo-Chapters and McNally Robinson. Paul McNally of the latter 
defended his action this way: "We feel there is nothing to gain on the 
side of freedom of expression and much to lose on the side of hurting 
feelings." Not exactly Voltaire, is it? "I disagree strongly with what 
you say but I will fight to the death for your right to say it as long 
as it doesn't hurt anybody's feelings." Maybe it could be Canada's new 
national motto. 

It's easy to be tough about nothing. The press corps that noisily 
champions "the public's right to know" about a minor hunting accident 
simultaneously assures the public that they've no need to see these 
Danish cartoons that have caused riots, arson and death around the 
world. On CNN, out of "sensitivity" to Islam, they show the cartoons 
but with the Prophet's face pixilated so that he looks as if Cheney's 
ventilated him with birdshot and it turned puffy and gangrenous. C'mon, 
guys, these are interesting times. Anyone can unload the umpteenth 
round of blanks into the bulletproof Chimpy Hallibushitler, but why not 
take a shot at something that matters? 

Or perhaps it would just be easier to change the term ''free press'' to 
the ''Roses of the Prophet Muhammed press.''
-- 
dep

How quickly revolutions grow old; and, worse still, respectable.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sun Feb 19 12:42:47 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sun Feb 19 12:43:21 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] brought up to hate
Message-ID: <200602191242.47633.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

here's a little something worth reading:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/02/12/do1205.xml

We were brought up to hate - and we do
By Nonie Darwish
(Filed: 12/02/2006)

The controversy regarding the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed 
completely misses the point. Of course, the cartoons are offensive to 
Muslims, but newspaper cartoons do not warrant the burning of buildings 
and the killing of innocent people. The cartoons did not cause the 
disease of hate that we are seeing in the Muslim world on our 
television screens at night - they are only a symptom of a far greater 
disease.

I was born and raised as a Muslim in Cairo, Egypt and in the Gaza Strip. 
In the 1950s, my father was sent by Egypt's President, Gamal Abdel 
Nasser, to head the Egyptian military intelligence in Gaza and the 
Sinai where he founded the Palestinian Fedayeen, or "armed resistance". 
They made cross-border attacks into Israel, killing 400 Israelis and 
wounding more than 900 others.

My father was killed as a result of the Fedayeen operations when I was 
eight years old. He was hailed by Nasser as a national hero and was 
considered a shaheed, or martyr. In his speech announcing the 
nationalisation of the Suez Canal, Nasser vowed that all of Egypt would 
take revenge for my father's death. My siblings and I were asked by 
Nasser: "Which one of you will avenge your father's death by killing 
Jews?" We looked at each other speechless, unable to answer. 

In school in Gaza, I learned hate, vengeance and retaliation. Peace was 
never an option, as it was considered a sign of defeat and weakness. At 
school we sang songs with verses calling Jews "dogs" (in Arab culture, 
dogs are considered unclean). 

Criticism and questioning were forbidden. When I did either of these, I 
was told: "Muslims cannot love the enemies of God, and those who do 
will get no mercy in hell." As a young woman, I visited a Christian 
friend in Cairo during Friday prayers, and we both heard the verbal 
attacks on Christians and Jews from the loudspeakers outside the 
mosque. They said: "May God destroy the infidels and the Jews, the 
enemies of God. We are not to befriend them or make treaties with 
them." We heard worshippers respond "Amen".

My friend looked scared; I was ashamed. That was when I first realised 
that something was very wrong in the way my religion was taught and 
practised. Sadly, the way I was raised was not unique. Hundreds of 
millions of other Muslims also have been raised with the same hatred of 
the West and Israel as a way to distract from the failings of their 
leaders. Things have not changed since I was a little girl in the 
1950s.

Palestinian television extols terrorists, and textbooks still deny the 
existence of Israel. More than 300 Palestinians schools are named after 
shaheeds, including my father. Roads in both Egypt and Gaza still bear 
his name - as they do of other "martyrs". What sort of message does 
that send about the role of terrorists? That they are heroes. Leaders 
who signed peace treaties, such as President Anwar Sadat, have been 
assassinated. Today, the Islamo-fascist president of Iran uses nuclear 
dreams, Holocaust denials and threats to "wipe Israel off the map" as a 
way to maintain control of his divided country.

Indeed, with Denmark set to assume the rotating presidency of the UN 
Security Council, the flames of the cartoon controversy have been 
fanned by Iran and Syria. This is critical since the International 
Atomic Energy Agency is expected to refer Iran to the Security Council 
and demand sanctions. At the same time, Syria is under scrutiny for its 
actions in Lebanon. Both Iran and Syria cynically want to embarrass the 
Danes to achieve their dangerous goals. 

But the rallies and riots come from a public ripe with rage. From my 
childhood in Gaza until today, blaming Israel and the West has been an 
industry in the Muslim world. Whenever peace seemed attainable, 
Palestinian leaders found groups who would do everything to sabotage 
it. They allowed their people to be used as the front line of Arab 
jihad. Dictators in countries surrounding the Palestinians were only 
too happy to exploit the Palestinians as a diversion from problems in 
their own backyards. The only voice outside of government control in 
these areas has been the mosques, and these places of worship have been 
filled with talk of jihad.

Is it any surprise that after decades of indoctrination in a culture of 
hate, that people actually do hate? Arab society has created a system 
of relying on fear of a common enemy. It's a system that has brought 
them much-needed unity, cohesion and compliance in a region ravaged by 
tribal feuds, instability, violence, and selfish corruption. So Arab 
leaders blame Jews and Christians rather than provide good schools, 
roads, hospitals, housing, jobs, or hope to their people. 

For 30 years I lived inside this war zone of oppressive dictatorships 
and police states. Citizens competed to appease and glorify their 
dictators, but they looked the other way when Muslims tortured and 
terrorised other Muslims. I witnessed honour killings of girls, 
oppression of women, female genital mutilation, polygamy and its 
devastating effect on family relations. All of this is destroying the 
Muslim faith from within.

It's time for Arabs and Muslims to stand up for their families. We must 
stop allowing our leaders to use the West and Israel as an excuse to 
distract from their own failed leadership and their citizens' lack of 
freedoms. It's time to stop allowing Arab leaders to complain about 
cartoons while turning a blind eye to people who defame Islam by 
holding Korans in one hand while murdering innocent people with the 
other.

Muslims need jobs - not jihad. Apologies about cartoons will not solve 
the problems. What is needed is hope and not hate. Unless we recognise 
that the culture of hate is the true root of the riots surrounding this 
cartoon controversy, this violent overreaction will only be the start 
of a clash of civilis-ations that the world cannot bear.

? Nonie Darwish is a freelance writer and public speaker.
-- 
dep

The Bible tells us to love our neighbors, and also to love our
enemies; probably because they are generally the same people.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Sun Feb 19 17:28:32 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Sun Feb 19 17:43:24 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] brought up to hate
Message-ID: <20060219223022.RZUI25099.fed1rmmtao09.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

hi,
Well snipping so I am not top or bottom posting.
This is old news. There is a reason that the Christians in the Middle East support the invasion of Iraq, it is because they expect a real republic could nullify the hate.


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sun Feb 19 17:46:11 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sun Feb 19 18:39:25 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Jeff Jacoby is...
Message-ID: <43F8F533.6050604@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

...the only Boston Globe columnist worth reading:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/19/when_fear_cows_the_media/


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From prather.js at verizon.net  Sun Feb 19 19:20:30 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sun Feb 19 19:21:27 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Jeff Jacoby is...
In-Reply-To: <43F8F533.6050604@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <0IUY00113MA6QVT8@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sun, 19 Feb 2006 17:46:11 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

>...the only Boston Globe columnist worth reading:
>
>http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2006/02/19/when_fear_cows_the_media/

This is a great article and right to the point.  I agree with
Jeff Jacoby and am amazed that he could continue to exist on the
Boston Globe's staff.

Fox News Sunday was good today, as well.  Ex-senator Simpson
came up with a bumper sticker for the Washington Press Corps:
[and, damnit! this old fart can't remember exactly!  I know
there were three words that started with "C", the second of
which was "Crap".]  ...I just went to FoxNews.com and was
reminded the slogan was "Controversy, crap, and confusion". 
NBC's Dick Gregory was so off the reservation during the Monday
press conference that all decent people should call for him to
be barred from the White House.  But, then again, his rant was
exactly why most of the US population no longer take the
mainstream press seriously.

And can you believe that both Time and Newsweek are using the
Cheny shooting as their cover article?  Talk about useless! 
This is a dead issue to everyone outside the Beltway, other than
the far left nutcases.  

Okay, I'm through venting now...


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Sun Feb 19 20:07:39 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sun Feb 19 20:08:27 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Jeff Jacoby is...
In-Reply-To: <0IUY00113MA6QVT8@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <43F8F533.6050604@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
	<0IUY00113MA6QVT8@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <47963.70.172.219.12.1140397659.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Sun, February 19, 2006 7:20 pm, Jerry Prather said:

> This is a great article and right to the point.  I agree with Jeff
> Jacoby and am amazed that he could continue to exist on the Boston
> Globe's staff.

Yup. He's like the token non-psychotic on the staff.

> Fox News Sunday was good today, as well.  Ex-senator Simpson came up
> with a bumper sticker for the Washington Press Corps:..."Controversy,
>  crap, and confusion".

I like the old codger; not much gets by him.

> NBC's Dick Gregory was so off the reservation during the Monday press
> conference that all decent people should call for him to be barred
> from the White House.

What a maroon. When did he go off the deep end? He was a reasonable
enough guy during the Bubba years.

> But, then again, his rant was exactly why most of the US population
> no longer take the mainstream press seriously.

And, it's not lost on the people either. The Dem's have gone
completely mad since leaving their blue-collar roots and becoming the
party of the elite. Of course, Lenin is the prime theorist of the
Party-As-Elite-Vanguard. That was the little squabble that earned
Trotsky an icepick in Mexico. But at least the old-line commies, and
even those of my day, in the Sixties, *understood* the importance of
elitism, whether you were 'for' or 'against' it in your choice of
Marxist flavor. The MoveOn.org deludenoids have no clue, about Leftist
theory or much of anything else. They are truly the useful idiots.
Most of them have never SEEN a poor person, and would never go back to
see another one after having that experience!


-- 
Bob Bernstein

...the care of souls cannot belong to the civil magistrate, because
his power consists only in outward force; but true and saving religion
consists in the inward persuasion of the mind, without which nothing
can be acceptable to God.

    -- John Locke, A Letter On Toleration 1689

From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Mon Feb 20 08:28:24 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Mon Feb 20 08:28:43 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: News Update.....
Message-ID: <20060220132821.ZQAO5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================



<SATIRE>

 WASHINGTON, D.C. - A White House source stated that Congress is
considering awarding Vice-President Dick Cheney the Medal of Freedom,
the nation's highest civilian commendation, for his act of bravery in
shooting an attorney.  The source was quoted to say, " All Americans
have wanted to shoot a lawyer at one time or another and Cheney
actually had the guts to do it".  In a related story, the Texas Parks
and Wildlife Department, which issues hunting licenses, said that it
will start requiring hunters, wishing to bag a lawyer, to have the new
"lawyer's stamp" on their hunting license.  Currently Texas hunters
are required to carry stamps for hunting birds, deer, and bear, at a
cost of $7 annually.  The new "lawyers stamp" will cost $100, but open
season will be all year long.  The department further stated that
although the "lawyers stamp" comes at hefty price, sales have been
brisk and it is believed it will generate annual revenues in excess of
$3 billion dollars the first year.  Other states are considering
similar hunting stamps.

<SATIRE>



===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================






From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Mon Feb 20 08:37:18 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Mon Feb 20 08:37:42 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] TEXAS ATTORNEY SEASON AND BAG LIMITS
Message-ID: <20060220133714.OVOL8318.centrmmtao04.cox.net@enigmaster>

     ATTORNEY SEASON AND BAG LIMITS


 1.  Any person with a valid Texas State hunting license may
     harvest attorneys.

 2.  Taking of attorneys with traps or deadfalls is permitted.  The
     use of currency as bait is prohibited.

 3.  Killing of attorneys with a vehicle is prohibited.  If
     accidentally struck, remove dead attorney to roadside and proceed to
     nearest car wash.

 4.  It is unlawful to chase, herd, or harvest attorneys from a snow
     machine, helicopter, or aircraft.

 5.  It shall be unlawful to shout "whiplash", "ambulance", or "free
     Perrier" for the purpose of trapping attorneys.

 6.  It shall be unlawful to hunt attorneys within 100 yards of BMW
     dealerships.

 7.  It shall be unlawful to use cocaine, young boys, $100 bills,
     prostitutes, or vehicle accidents to attract attorneys.

 8.  It shall be unlawful to hunt attorneys within 200 yards of
     courtrooms, law libraries, whorehouses, health spas, gay bars,
     ambulances, or hospitals.

 9.  If an attorney is elected to government office, it shall be a
     felony to hunt, trap, or possess it.

10.  Stuffed or mounted attorneys must have a state health department
     inspection for AIDS, rabies, and vermin.

11.  It shall be illegal for a hunter to disguise himself as a
     reporter, drug dealer, pimp, female legal clerk, sheep, accident
     victim, bookie, or tax accountant for the purpose of hunting
     attorneys.

     BAG LIMITS

      1.  Yellow Bellied Sidewinder                     2
      2.  Two-faced Tort Feasor                         1
      3.  Back-stabbing Divorce Litigator               4
      4.  Small-breasted Ball Buster (Female only)      3
      5.  Big-mouthed Pub Gut                           2
      6.  Honest Attorney                         EXTINCT
      7.  Cut-throat                                    2
      8.  Back-stabbing Whiner                          2
      9.  Brown-nosed Judge Kisser                      2
     10.  Silver-tongued Drug Defender        $100 BOUNTY
     11.  Hairy-assed Civil Libertarian                 7







From sjkleinsr at cox.net  Mon Feb 20 10:25:30 2006
From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.)
Date: Mon Feb 20 10:26:45 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Viet Nam Web Site
Message-ID: <20060220152545.CMDK8484.centrmmtao02.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>

One of the highlights of this site is the music offered from that era. Enjoy, it brings back memories.

http://chu65nang67.us/nam/vietnam.html 

 


Stan Klein, Sr.
Homeless, live in a truck
Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Mon Feb 20 12:03:42 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Mon Feb 20 12:12:47 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Viet Nam Web Site
Message-ID: <20060220171040.TYQO20875.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

isn't the song  "Soldier's last letter home" a cover of a Hank William's song from the 1940's?
> 
> From: "Stan Klein, Sr." <sjkleinsr@cox.net>
> Date: 2006/02/20 Mon AM 10:25:30 EST
> To: <os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com>
> Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Viet Nam Web Site
> 
> One of the highlights of this site is the music offered from that era. Enjoy, it brings back memories.
> 
> http://chu65nang67.us/nam/vietnam.html 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Stan Klein, Sr.
> Homeless, live in a truck
> Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black
> 
> _______________________________________________
> os2-right-stuff-l mailing list
> os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l
> 

From sjkleinsr at cox.net  Mon Feb 20 13:22:26 2006
From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.)
Date: Mon Feb 20 13:24:47 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Viet Nam Web Site
Message-ID: <20060220182238.EGVN5868.centrmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>

Could be. A lot of wartime songs get revived for the wars that follow.
> 
> From: <spmaiorca@cox.net>
> Subject: Re: [os2-right-stuff-l] Viet Nam Web Site
> 
> isn't the song  "Soldier's last letter home" a cover of a Hank William's song from the 1940's?


Stan Klein, Sr.
Homeless, live in a truck
Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Mon Feb 20 14:02:53 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Mon Feb 20 14:03:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Viet Nam Web Site
In-Reply-To: <20060220171040.TYQO20875.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
References: <20060220171040.TYQO20875.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <200602201402.54004.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:
| isn't the song  "Soldier's last letter home" a cover of a Hank
| William's song from the 1940's?

yes. the original was entitled "durn them top-posters."
-- 
dep

>From time to time, as we all know, a sect appears in our midst
announcing that the world will very soon come to an end. Generally,
by some slight confusion or miscalculation, it is the sect that comes
to an end.
		-- G.K. Chesterton

From sjkleinsr at cox.net  Mon Feb 20 14:12:23 2006
From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.)
Date: Mon Feb 20 14:13:47 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Top Posters
Message-ID: <20060220191233.RMAA613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>

You talkin bout me, old man? <G>

> 
> yes. the original was entitled "durn them top-posters."
> -- 
> dep
> 


Stan Klein, Sr.
Homeless, live in a truck
Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black

From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Mon Feb 20 14:23:04 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Mon Feb 20 14:23:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Top Posters
In-Reply-To: <20060220191233.RMAA613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>
Message-ID: <200602201923.k1KJN4A0028191@oasis.novia.net>

Dirty Old Egg Sucking Dog 
Recorded by: Johnny Cash 
Written by: Jack Clement 
Recorded: January 11,1966 Nashville, Tenessee 
Source: The Essential Johnny Cash Vol. 2 

Well he's not very handsome to look at 
Oh he's shaggy and he eats like a hog 
And he's always killin' my chickens 
That dirty old egg-suckin' dog 

Egg-suckin' dog 
I'm gonna stomp your head in the ground 
If you don't stay out of my hen house 
You dirty old egg-suckin' hound 

Now if he don't stop eatin' my eggs up 
Though I'm not a real bad guy 
I'm gonna get my riffle and send him 
To that great chicken house in the sky 

Egg-suckin' dog 
Your always hangin' around 
But you'd better stay out of my hen house 
You dirty old egg-suckin' hound 



On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:12:23 -0500, Stan Klein, Sr. wrote:

>You talkin bout me, old man? <G>

>> 
>> yes. the original was entitled "durn them top-posters."
>> -- 
>> dep
>>



From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Mon Feb 20 14:42:02 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Mon Feb 20 14:42:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Top Posters
In-Reply-To: <20060220191233.RMAA613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>
References: <20060220191233.RMAA613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@[172.18.53.8]>
Message-ID: <200602201442.02699.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Stan Klein, Sr.:
| You talkin bout me, old man? <G>

the foo appears to hath shat.

-- 
dep

What we call emancipation is always and of necessity simply the free
choice of the soul between one set of limitations and another.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Mon Feb 20 14:43:40 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Mon Feb 20 14:46:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] online SR-71 musem
Message-ID: <20060220194410.ONCR15695.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

http://www.habu.org/


From prather.js at verizon.net  Mon Feb 20 14:51:33 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb 20 14:52:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Top Posters
In-Reply-To: <200602201442.02699.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <0IV0002SQ4I1E30A@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:42:02 -0500, dep wrote:

>the foo appears to hath shat.

That's as eloquent as the lyrics to "Dirty Old Egg Sucking Dog."

<G>

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Mon Feb 20 15:02:08 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Mon Feb 20 15:02:49 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Top Posters
In-Reply-To: <0IV0002SQ4I1E30A@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602202002.k1KK2827012411@oasis.novia.net>

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:51:33 -0500 (EST), Jerry Prather wrote:

>On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 14:42:02 -0500, dep wrote:

>>the foo appears to hath shat.

>That's as eloquent as the lyrics to "Dirty Old Egg Sucking Dog."

For the uninitiated:


The Foo Bird

American missionary was visiting a village in Borneo. The village had a 
tiny local bird, called the "Foo," that hung around the village and was 
a scavenger.

The missionary noticed that all of the tribe's people had piles of 
something on their heads and shoulders. He asked what it was and was 
told that the Foos flying overhead would defecate, as birds do, and 
sometimes it hit people. The tribe had an old belief that it was good 
luck and that removing it was bad luck. People that had the highest 
piles were looked upon as favored by the gods. They took great pains 
not to disturb the accumulated Foo droppings. They added that removing 
them would result in death.

The missionary said that was nonsense and when the first Foo dropped on 
his head, he took out his handkerchief and cleaned it off. He 
immediately dropped dead.

The tribe started chanting, "If the Foo shits, wear it!"   






From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Mon Feb 20 16:55:32 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb 20 16:55:51 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Here's your globalization!
Message-ID: <43FA3AD4.80304@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Tech support!


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
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From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Mon Feb 20 17:30:48 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb 20 17:31:51 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Top Posters
In-Reply-To: <200602202002.k1KK2827012411@oasis.novia.net>
References: <0IV0002SQ4I1E30A@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>
	<200602202002.k1KK2827012411@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <51108.70.172.219.12.1140474648.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Mon, February 20, 2006 3:02 pm, Mike Riddle said:

> For the uninitiated:

Thanks for the background Mike, but I am still stuck with a lingering
sense of "Was this trip really necessary?"  <g>


-- 
Bob Bernstein

...the care of souls cannot belong to the civil magistrate, because
his power consists only in outward force; but true and saving religion
consists in the inward persuasion of the mind, without which nothing
can be acceptable to God.

    -- John Locke, A Letter On Toleration 1689

From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Mon Feb 20 17:36:42 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Charon the Boatman)
Date: Mon Feb 20 17:55:52 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Top Posters
In-Reply-To: <51108.70.172.219.12.1140474648.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <200602202238.k1KMcoKN010167@oasis.novia.net>

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 17:30:48 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>> For the uninitiated:

>Thanks for the background Mike, but I am still stuck with a lingering
>sense of "Was this trip really necessary?"  <g>

"When you top post--even with the best intentions, you write without 
knowing where you have been and therefore do not know where you are 
going.  The road to Hades is paved with . . . ."




From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Mon Feb 20 18:08:18 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb 20 18:08:51 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] RIP
Message-ID: <43FA4BE2.6000003@bernstein.providence.ri.us>


Curt Gowdy 1919-2006


-- 
Bob Bernstein
From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Mon Feb 20 18:15:47 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb 20 18:16:51 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Top Posters
In-Reply-To: <200602202238.k1KMcoKN010167@oasis.novia.net>
References: <51108.70.172.219.12.1140474648.squirrel@legomenon.org>
	<200602202238.k1KMcoKN010167@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <51352.70.172.219.12.1140477347.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Mon, February 20, 2006 5:36 pm, Charon the Boatman said:

> "When you top post--even with the best intentions, you write without
>  knowing where you have been and therefore do not know where you are
>  going.  The road to Hades is paved with . . . ."

Well, I was told "all shall be revealed," and lo and behold, it has
come to pass!


-- 
Bob Bernstein

...the care of souls cannot belong to the civil magistrate, because
his power consists only in outward force; but true and saving religion
consists in the inward persuasion of the mind, without which nothing
can be acceptable to God.

    -- John Locke, A Letter On Toleration 1689

From prather.js at verizon.net  Mon Feb 20 18:28:48 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Mon Feb 20 18:29:52 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Top Posters
In-Reply-To: <51352.70.172.219.12.1140477347.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <0IV000DF4EK2JMO1@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

On Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:15:47 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>On Mon, February 20, 2006 5:36 pm, Charon the Boatman said:
>
>> "When you top post--even with the best intentions, you write without
>>  knowing where you have been and therefore do not know where you are
>>  going.  The road to Hades is paved with . . . ."
>
>Well, I was told "all shall be revealed," and lo and behold, it has
>come to pass!

How about my rule?  Snip, clip, and edit!


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From spmaiorca at cox.net  Mon Feb 20 20:46:31 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Mon Feb 20 20:48:54 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Here's your globalization!
Message-ID: <20060221014640.OJHY6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

Other caption why Patrick Maiorca had been working at Md's for so long...and only recently got a dead end job that won't lead any ware unless he can actualy make a profit selling things on ebay or in the break room.


From spmaiorca at cox.net  Mon Feb 20 20:46:09 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Mon Feb 20 20:48:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Here's your globalization!
Message-ID: <20060221014431.YVMA17437.fed1rmmtao12.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

Other caption why Patrick Maiorca had been working at Md's for so long...and only recently got a dead end job that won't lead any ware unless he can actualy make a profit selling things on ebay or in the break room.
-------------- next part --------------
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http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Mon Feb 20 21:43:05 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Mon Feb 20 21:43:54 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Here's your globalization!
In-Reply-To: <20060221014640.OJHY6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
References: <20060221014640.OJHY6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <52010.70.172.219.12.1140489785.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Mon, February 20, 2006 8:46 pm, spmaiorca@cox.net said:

> ...why Patrick Maiorca had been working at Md's for so long...and
> only recently got a dead end job that won't lead any ware unless...

Get OFF the pity pot!!



-- 
Bob Bernstein

...the care of souls cannot belong to the civil magistrate, because
his power consists only in outward force; but true and saving religion
consists in the inward persuasion of the mind, without which nothing
can be acceptable to God.

    -- John Locke, A Letter On Toleration 1689

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Mon Feb 20 22:11:17 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Mon Feb 20 22:11:55 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Here's your globalization!
In-Reply-To: <20060221014640.OJHY6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
References: <20060221014640.OJHY6244.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <200602202211.17170.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:
| Other caption why Patrick Maiorca had been working at Md's for so
| long...and only recently got a dead end job that won't lead any ware
| unless he can actualy make a profit selling things on ebay or in the
| break room.

hey. it's pretty simple:

figure out what you want to do which is consistent with your talents and 
skills or those which you can acquire. figure out your path to doing 
what you want to do, understanding that the path will not always be 
straight or lead exactly in the direction you care to go. then get at 
it.

and remember that more people of success and achievement started out 
with nothing than started out with something. they learned the first 
and most important rule: you make your own opportunities.

-- 
dep

Those of us who have seen all the normal rules and relations
of humanity uprooted by random speculators, as if they were abnormal
abuses and almost accidents, will understand why men have sought
for something divine if they wished to preserve anything human.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Mon Feb 20 23:26:53 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Mon Feb 20 23:37:55 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] brought up to hate
In-Reply-To: <20060219223022.RZUI25099.fed1rmmtao09.cox.net@172.18.180.8>
References: <20060219223022.RZUI25099.fed1rmmtao09.cox.net@172.18.180.8>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602202026g7c4ac402lc8312b843c12f4e1@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/19/06, spmaiorca@cox.net <spmaiorca@cox.net> wrote:
> hi,
> Well snipping so I am not top or bottom posting.
> This is old news. There is a reason that the Christians in the Middle East support the invasion of Iraq, it is because they expect a real republic could nullify the hate.
>
I don't see how a republic could work in that region.  Since the Quran
is so prevalent, and its teachings are about hate, it won't be a real
republic.
Later,
Daniel

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Tue Feb 21 00:57:59 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Tue Feb 21 01:06:56 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Here's your globalization!
Message-ID: <20060221060348.LMRI17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

> hey. it's pretty simple:
 at 
> it.
> 
> and remember that more people of success and achievement started out 
> with nothing than started out with something. they learned the first 
> and most important rule: you make your own opportunities.
> 
> -- 
> dep
>
Denis I perfer your e-mail over Bob's as your atleast giving some encoragement in regrds to the idea of selling computers in the break room. I like building computers to begin with why not try to sell them in the break room and in the paper?
and on line?


From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Tue Feb 21 09:09:54 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Tue Feb 21 10:01:05 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Here's your globalization!
In-Reply-To: <20060221060348.LMRI17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
References: <20060221060348.LMRI17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
Message-ID: <200602210909.54809.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth spmaiorca@cox.net:

| Denis I perfer your e-mail over Bob's as your atleast giving some
| encoragement in regrds to the idea of selling computers in the break
| room. I like building computers to begin with why not try to sell
| them in the break room and in the paper? and on line?

bob and i were saying the same thing, just in different ways.

it's this: if you want to succeed, then 100 percent of your thought and 
effort needs to go to how you're going to succeed, and not one iota to 
preparing or thinking about excuses for failure. i do not know your 
circumstance (nor could i say anything very useful, probably, if i 
did), but very broadly drawn, let's consider some stuff:

-- dell sells a very nice computer with an lcd display and all kinds of 
features for under $500. how does a computer you've built successfully 
compete with such a machine? does it do so to the extent that a lot of 
people would choose yours over michael dell's?

-- i do not know how big your breakroom and your town are. do you think 
you'll sell enough machines there (at what of necessity will be a 
fairly low profit margin) to sustain yourself? a whole lot of people 
who have tried what you propose have gone out of business. do you know 
how you'll be different?

-- once you have sold a computer, you have the customer forever, and not 
necessarily in a good way. you will get calls at all hours of the day 
and night having to do with every imaginable problem, including a lot 
that have nothing to do with anything wrong with your construction of 
the machine. have you a plan for dealing with these that leaves 
everybody -- you included -- happy?

i'm not saying these things to discourage you; i'm saying them because 
they are questions to which you need to have answers before you begin, 
these questions and lots more. and you have to have enough belief in 
what you're doing to get you through the slow times, but a realistic 
enough view that if you're doing something wrong you can see and 
correct it.

and you need to do something else as well: eat. sleep indoors. go to the 
doctor and dentist from time to time. and so on. so at least at first 
you need to do something else, to take care of the needs of life while 
you're getting your entrepreneurial venture to the point where it 
sustains itself and you. what skills have you that someone would pay 
for? how do you market them?

you mention that you are in a dead-end job. that's fine, because it is a 
job -- its dead-endedness doesn't matter at the moment, because it buys 
you a little time to find a job that offers growth. and, while we're 
all impatient, there are many good things between unemployed and 
president of ibm. and lots of compromises that must be made.

i have an acquaintance -- i'd say friend, because once we were friends 
and there's no reason to think we aren't anymore except for the fact 
that i have neither seen nor spoken to him in 30 years -- named chris 
cooper. chris cooper wanted to be an actor; in college he demonstrated 
considerable talent. after college he went off to try to get work 
acting. maybe 10 years later i saw a review in the newspaper which 
mentioned him in a small, low-budget film. and 10 years after that i 
saw him playing a defense lawyer in an episode of "law and order." a 
few years later i was surprised and pleased to see that he had been 
nominated for an academy award -- and i was even more surprised and 
pleased to learn later that he had won. a couple of years after that i 
saw the movie "seabiscuit" and was delighted in his performance as the 
trainer. now i see that he has some role in the movie "capote."

i have another acquaintance, who i've also not talked with for decades, 
who in college was a talented actor and who headed out into the big, 
wide, world to seek his fortune. the other day i got to wondering 
whatever became of him. so i did a web search for him and found that 
over the years he's had a bit part here and there; never has "broken 
through" as they say.

and i have yet another acquaintance who was a highly talented actor 
almost from the time he could walk. he headed to florida and got work 
in dinner theatres and the like for awhile, but best i can tell has 
mostly given up and now lives off his mother's savings.

these three chose a very tough business. all achieved some degree of 
success. in the case of one, it's huge success. in the case of the 
second, it's just enough success to string him along; it might have 
been better for him if he had never gotten work acting, because he 
might then have gone onto some other career, where he might well have 
succeeded. the third one never considered anything else, but lacked the 
committment to do what he needed to do to make his dream come true. he 
was there for it as long as it was easy. bet you can't guess which one 
is all the time complaining about the unfairness of it all.

sure, sheer luck played into it, but one can create an environment 
hospitable to luck and one can keep the door firmly bolted against 
luck's influence. chris cooper was apparently very good at recognizing 
luck -- also known as opportunity -- and when necessary creating his 
own luck.

now. just as you like to build computers, i like to write books. i work 
very hard at it, knowing all the while that the odds against any book 
getting published, let alone making enough money that i will end up 
with, even, minimum wage for my efforts, is very slight. the glamour of 
tom wolfe being hailed wherever he goes is the very tip of the tip of a 
very big iceberg in the field i have chosen. for every tom wolfe there 
are a million lesser lights and most of them are quite dim indeed.

one thing i learned very early on is that when the bills are due i would 
not be wise to say, "wow. better sit down and whip off a book." so i 
had other jobs. i wrote for newspapers -- and believe me, getting up at 
4 a.m. to go to the police station to collect the police reports to 
write up in time for a paper that hits the streets at 1 p.m., all for 
$64 per week before taxes, and with other writing to do for the paper 
as well, is not a dream job. but it got me ready for another job. had 
to move 1,500 miles for it, but it paid $150 a week, though i had to 
work much, much harder. and on it went, not for years but for decades.

still at it. i have a book out in manuscript and am working on a 
proposal for another. i've gotten three books published (two were 
ghostwritten, under other people's names). and all the while i had to 
do something else, too. i ghostwrote a financial column for a 
syndicated columnist who was very sick. i wrote press releases for 
musical artists, some famous and some not, at $75 apiece. for one 
period of time, i worked as what amounted to receptionist at a rental 
management company for two years.

it could be argued -- i have an ex-wife who would argue it, and though 
she would be lying, the case she makes is a convincing one -- that my 
pursuit of writing cost me my marriage. it certainly caused me to move 
just last year from an expensive area to an area where one's dollars go 
farther. and here i do publicity work in the music industry -- and 
don't think for a minute that i don't enjoy it, because i do -- which 
keeps the lights on and pays the taxes, but which causes me to have to 
budget for anything much beyond the basics. and by the standards of 
measure for such things, i'm a *successful* writer.

do not suppose i'm complaining, because i'm not, not in the slightest. i 
made my choices. i enjoy the rewards and have sometimes been surprised 
by the costs. but it's been my choice, good and bad, the whole way.

reading what you've written here over time, a couple things come to 
mind: panic and desperation. those are not generally good motivators. 
they provide some energy, but they prohibit clear thinking. they are 
what cause people to eat the seed corn.

you are involved in your religion. you are involved in computers. you 
are involved in a lot of things. you are looking for fulfilling work. 
and you have an attitude that, as bob described it, puts forth the 
notion that you ought to be pitied. but pity won't bring you anything 
good and it will rob you of your self-respect -- so why seek it? why 
not in a cheerful and happy way let it be known that you are looking 
for opportunities, and at the same time give some thought to creating 
opportunities. maybe you're spot on; maybe people in the newspaper and 
the break room are eager to buy computers just as fast as you can crank 
'em out. but maybe there's something else you could do as well. maybe 
you could post notices around saying that you can configure and fix 
computers -- that's something you'd need to do with your computer 
business, anyway -- and you could make some money that way. that could 
end up being a bigger business than selling hardware is. maybe you 
could find some work with your local isp. in my experience -- and i'm 
someone who never got a job i was actually qualified to do at the time 
i got it -- a willingness to learn is as important as coming in with 
knowledge. (in a lot of ways, willingness to learn is more important 
than knowledge; we've all encountered people who are fixed in their 
belief of the one true right way to do something and who as a result 
are unemployable pains in the ass.)

so bob's advice was actually more useful to you than mine was. stop 
feeling sorry for yourself. stop thinking that just because everything 
is not perfect today it will never be any better. replace the feat and 
panic and despair with enthusiasm. the world is full of possibilities. 
you're a young man. everything is open to you. stop whining and go for 
it.
-- 
dep

It's not that we don't have enough scoundrels to curse; it's that we
don't have enough good men to curse them.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From spmaiorca at cox.net  Tue Feb 21 14:36:44 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Tue Feb 21 14:46:09 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Here's your globalization!
Message-ID: <20060221194236.VXQJ17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>

<snip>
First with dell their good if you like  Intel and gammers don't.
I know thing will take work to do....but the theme to the post is that  I need to look at reality and recognise the fact I have two choices one figure out my niche. If I were to do any thing IT related I'd haveto be self employed I need to fill in the blanks on that. Place adds in the paper and so forth.
the job I have pays $9 an hour the question is how to best invest it in myself..may be moving to a small town some place....right now my thoughts are what do I have to loose?
don't over spend and see what I can do to do make a few bucks on the side....I could then see where I go from here.
 
 


From spmaiorca at cox.net  Tue Feb 21 17:23:46 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca)
Date: Tue Feb 21 17:25:11 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Here's your globalization!
In-Reply-To: <200602210909.54809.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
References: <20060221060348.LMRI17838.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>
	<200602210909.54809.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <200602211423.46192.spmaiorca@cox.net>

Hi,
first I know the risks either my idea and plans will work or they will not.
If I don't try jack then I know I'll be stuck in clientlogic ok so nothing 
gained.
If I try either I'll be able to set up a shop that dose well in Las vegas 
where I am or I don't. If I do I'm happy about it and if I don't one of two 
things will happen either I'll learn and gain enough IT skills I can work for 
some one else making more money than I do now or I don't.
If I don't I'm where I am now nothing lost nothing gained.
I have plans for products and services besides computers and It related 
ones...in short...I don't see what I have to loose. Nothing...either I make 
it or I don't. 
-Patrick
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Tue Feb 21 17:34:46 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Tue Feb 21 17:52:11 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] has anyone else . . .
Message-ID: <200602211734.46725.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

. . . gotten hypnotized by the olympic curling? dunno why, but this year 
when it comes on, i watch it. weird.
-- 
dep

An inconvenience is only an adventure wrongly considered; an adventure
is an inconvenience rightly considered.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Tue Feb 21 18:01:28 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Tue Feb 21 18:02:11 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] has anyone else . . .
In-Reply-To: <200602211734.46725.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <200602212301.k1LN1Shq013377@oasis.novia.net>

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:34:46 -0500, dep wrote:

>. . . gotten hypnotized by the olympic curling? dunno why, but this year 
>when it comes on, i watch it. weird.

and a 4.5 from the East German judge.

OOPS!  Wrong year and sport.  Perhaps it's that the coverage has been so 
complete it's actually possible to understand some of the game, and 
therefore appreciate the fine-motor skills and strategy involved.




From spmaiorca at cox.net  Tue Feb 21 18:39:14 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca)
Date: Tue Feb 21 18:40:11 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] has anyone else . . .
In-Reply-To: <200602212301.k1LN1Shq013377@oasis.novia.net>
References: <200602212301.k1LN1Shq013377@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <200602211539.14827.spmaiorca@cox.net>

Nope been computer shopping gonna deal with a dead end job by getting a better 
one even if I have to make it myself.....always heard that was the American 
way...
From prather.js at verizon.net  Tue Feb 21 19:02:51 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Tue Feb 21 19:03:12 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Here's your globalization!
In-Reply-To: <200602211423.46192.spmaiorca@cox.net>
Message-ID: <0IV2008STASRPY7A@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:23:46 -0800, S.P. Maiorca wrote:

>Nothing...either I make 
>it or I don't. 

Okay, that's a straight up decision.  Another wise quote from
Yoda: "There is no try; there is only do."

Cheers/eCS,

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From prather.js at verizon.net  Tue Feb 21 19:04:28 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Tue Feb 21 19:05:11 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] has anyone else . . .
In-Reply-To: <200602211734.46725.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <0IV200HS7AVGUBK2@vms040.mailsrvcs.net>

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:34:46 -0500, dep wrote:

>. . . gotten hypnotized by the olympic curling? dunno why, but this year 
>when it comes on, i watch it. weird.

My wife can get into the skating.  I can't think of much of
anything that I can get into.  I'd like to watch luge, bobsled,
etc., but that never seems to be on when I surf by the
channel...


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Tue Feb 21 19:22:48 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Tue Feb 21 19:23:11 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] has anyone else . . .
In-Reply-To: <200602212301.k1LN1Shq013377@oasis.novia.net>
References: <200602212301.k1LN1Shq013377@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <200602211922.49064.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Mike Riddle:

| OOPS!  Wrong year and sport.  Perhaps it's that the coverage has been
| so complete it's actually possible to understand some of the game,
| and therefore appreciate the fine-motor skills and strategy involved.

it still seems like shuffleboard with really big doorstops, but it's 
somehow fascinating. as though it would be fun to have one of those 
rigs set up here. though i kind of imagine keeping the ice pristine is 
a little tough. some kind of little curled-pinkie zamboni machine or 
something. don't think they make that kind of attachment for the 
gravely. (not that i'd even imagine trying to start the gravely in the 
winter . . .)

but yeah, they've covered it pretty well. and the color commentator 
sounds like bob bernstein. 
-- 
dep

I do not compare marriage with war, but I do compare marriage
with law or liberty or patriotism or popular government,
or any of the human ideals which have often to be defended by war.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Wed Feb 22 01:05:11 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb 22 01:06:18 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] has anyone else . . .
In-Reply-To: <200602212301.k1LN1Shq013377@oasis.novia.net>
References: <200602211734.46725.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
	<200602212301.k1LN1Shq013377@oasis.novia.net>
Message-ID: <58078.70.172.219.12.1140588311.squirrel@legomenon.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Tue, February 21, 2006 6:01 pm, Mike Riddle said:

> Perhaps it's that the coverage has been so complete it's actually
> possible to understand some of the game, and therefore appreciate the
> fine-motor skills and strategy involved.

This made my night. Mike, you are my hero. We luv ya ya big goof ya.

I asked my NH skiing bro 'what happened to Bode?' and got a long
inspirational essay back from him as to how "real fans" understand
that it's not over 'til it's over and blah blah blah. That phrase
'real fans' was his, and it instantly alerted me to the presence of
group-think. The clear implication was that 'real fans' would never
EVEN ASK 'what happened?'

Hey! Guess how much of the gosh darn Olympics I'VE WATCHED! Nada.
Squat. None. Zero. Adios. Have a nice day. Buh-bye now. Y'all come
back now y'hear?



- --
Bob Bernstein

...the care of souls cannot belong to the civil magistrate, because
his power consists only in outward force; but true and saving religion
consists in the inward persuasion of the mind, without which nothing
can be acceptable to God.

    -- John Locke, A Letter On Toleration 1689

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From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Wed Feb 22 08:02:56 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb 22 08:03:24 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] has anyone else . . .
In-Reply-To: <58078.70.172.219.12.1140588311.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <200602221302.k1MD2uvW016911@oasis.novia.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:05:11 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>'what happened to Bode?'

Besides being undisciplined, thinking the world revolves around him, the 
whole spectacle is for his enjoyment, and that "USA" on his "uniform" 
stands for something he seems not to appreciate?

The good news is that Bode makes Shani Davis look diplomatic.

,-(




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From prather.js at verizon.net  Wed Feb 22 08:30:42 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Wed Feb 22 08:31:25 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] has anyone else . . .
In-Reply-To: <58078.70.172.219.12.1140588311.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <0IV300K5AC77FYQ5@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:05:11 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>Hey! Guess how much of the gosh darn Olympics I'VE WATCHED! Nada.
>Squat. None. Zero.

Gee, that's almost as much as I've watched!  <G>

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Wed Feb 22 13:20:48 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb 22 13:23:29 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] has anyone else . . .
In-Reply-To: <58078.70.172.219.12.1140588311.squirrel@legomenon.org>
Message-ID: <200602221820.k1MIKmTv007682@oasis.novia.net>

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 01:05:11 -0500 (EST), Bob Bernstein wrote:

>> Perhaps it's that the coverage has been so complete it's actually
>> possible to understand some of the game, and therefore appreciate the
>> fine-motor skills and strategy involved.

>This made my night. Mike, you are my hero. We luv ya ya big goof ya.

Speaking of curling...



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From mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us  Wed Feb 22 13:29:27 2006
From: mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb 22 13:30:29 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Virus Traits
Message-ID: <20060222182920.EIJE613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


George Bush Virus - Causes your computer to keep looking for viruses of mass
destruction.

John Kerry Virus - Stores data on both sides of the disk and causes little
purple hearts to appear on screen.

Clinton Virus - Gives you a permanent Hard Drive ; with NO memory

Al Gore Virus - Causes your computer to keep counting and re-counting

Bob Dole Virus - Makes a new hard drive out of an old floppy

Lewinsky Virus - Sucks all the memory out of your computer, then e-mails
everyone about what it did

Arnold Schwarzenegger Virus - Terminates some files, leaves, but will be
back

Mike Tyson Virus - Quits after two bytes

Oprah Winfrey Virus - Your 200 GB hard drive shrinks to 100 GB, then slowly
expands to re-stabilize around 350 GB

Ellen Degeneres Virus - Disks can no longer be inserted

Prozac Virus - Totally screws up your RAM, but your processor doesn't care

Michael Jackson Virus - Only attacks minor files

Lorena Bobbitt Virus - Reformats your hard drive into a 3.5 inch floppy ...
then discards it through Windows




===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================



From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Wed Feb 22 13:45:52 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Wed Feb 22 13:47:30 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] extremely funny
Message-ID: <200602221345.52247.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/45572
-- 
dep

It is hard to make government representative when it is also remote.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From mriddle at papillion.ne.us  Wed Feb 22 13:56:19 2006
From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb 22 13:57:30 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Harry the Austin Lawyer]
Message-ID: <20060222185611.ERDT613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


An unimpeachable source sent this to me saying it was composed by a 
friend of a friend of a friend:



My name is Harry Whittington
The truth to you I'll tell
I am an Austin lawyer and
I know I'm bound for Hell

Like every other Texan I'm
A sportsman to my bones
And the biggest ranch in Texas, boys
Has always felt like home

I raised my bleeding head
As they were wheeling me away
I cried, you'll need some time to lose
That beer you had today

It might take quite a while before
The vapors dissipate
So wait twelve hours before you let
That sheriff through the gate

There are some things I'd never do
For money, love, or health
But if they'd asked me to, I would have
Sworn I shot myself

But like some tiny, wingless quail
That story'd never fly
I am an Austin lawyer and they'd
Assume it was a lie

His statement was so bollixed up
I knew that guy was hosed
At thirty yards that bird shot would
Have bounced right off my clothes

And so I called his chief of staff
These words to her pronounced
"He walked onto the firing line
Unseen and unannounced"

When you go hunting for the quail
Be mindful of your crew
Keep your doctor close at hand
But bring your lawyer too

And if this sounds excessive
I assure you it is not
Bring a second lawyer
Just in case the first one's shot




===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE===================



From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Wed Feb 22 14:16:19 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Wed Feb 22 14:16:30 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] amusing california case
Message-ID: <200602221416.19593.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

so.

the evil bastard in california who was scheduled to lie down but not get 
up anymore has gotten a stay on the theory that lethal injection is 
cruel and inhuman punishment.

let's suppose he prevails. this would mean that the state would have to 
revert to approved methods: gas chamber, electrocution, hanging, firing 
squad . . .

i'm not all that certain that his fellow death-row inmates will be 
thanking him.

of course, justice suggests that the means of execution should be as 
close as possible to the means employed by the defendant in killing the 
person for whom he's on death row to answer. which would definitely 
make for some impressive pay-per-views or at least new episodes of 
"most shocking police videos."

-- 
dep

What life and death may be to a turkey is not my business; but the
soul of Scrooge and the body of Cratchit are my business.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Wed Feb 22 14:18:52 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Wed Feb 22 14:19:30 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Harry the Austin Lawyer]
In-Reply-To: <20060222185611.ERDT613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>
References: <20060222185611.ERDT613.centrmmtao03.cox.net@enigmaster>
Message-ID: <200602221418.52475.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Mike Riddle:

| But like some tiny, wingless quail
| That story'd never fly

looks like something out of california or nyc -- everybody else knows 
that quail have wings and fly.
-- 
dep

I do not ask them to assume the worth of my creed or any creed;
and I could wish they did not so often ask me to assume the worth
of their worthless, poisonous plutocratic modern society.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Wed Feb 22 14:25:18 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb 22 14:26:30 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Harry the Austin Lawyer]
In-Reply-To: <200602221418.52475.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <200602221925.k1MJPIcm014596@oasis.novia.net>

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:18:52 -0500, dep wrote:

>| But like some tiny, wingless quail
>| That story'd never fly

>looks like something out of california or nyc -- everybody else knows 
>that quail have wings and fly.

Have you no heart?  Grant some poetic license and imagine a fledgling not 
yet able to escape the hundreds of pellets from the Evil Cheney's gun.

http://www.bobrivers.com/audiovault/downloads/cheneyvid.asp




From prather.js at verizon.net  Wed Feb 22 14:34:50 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Wed Feb 22 14:35:29 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] amusing california case
In-Reply-To: <200602221416.19593.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <0IV30070ET22T9S0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:16:19 -0500, dep wrote:

>the evil bastard in california who was scheduled to lie down but not get 
>up anymore has gotten a stay on the theory that lethal injection is 
>cruel and inhuman punishment.

Yeah.  It should be reserved for relieving our beloved pets of
the pain and suffering of their last days,  not for animals like
that!

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From spmaiorca at cox.net  Wed Feb 22 14:52:08 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca)
Date: Wed Feb 22 14:54:30 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] amusing california case
In-Reply-To: <200602221416.19593.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
References: <200602221416.19593.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <200602221152.08872.spmaiorca@cox.net>

On Wednesday 22 February 2006 11:16 am, dep wrote:

> of course, justice suggests that the means of execution should be as
> close as possible to the means employed by the defendant in killing the
> person for whom he's on death row to answer. which would definitely
> make for some impressive pay-per-views or at least new episodes of
> "most shocking police videos."

Well there is the George Carlin suggestion of revived gladiatorial combat.
-Patrick 
From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Wed Feb 22 15:16:02 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb 22 15:17:31 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] amusing california case
In-Reply-To: <0IV30070ET22T9S0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <200602221416.19593.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
	<0IV30070ET22T9S0@vms046.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <60439.70.172.219.12.1140639362.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Wed, February 22, 2006 2:34 pm, Jerry Prather said:

> Yeah.  It should be reserved for relieving our beloved pets of the
> pain and suffering of their last days,  not for animals like that!

"...that early-'80s thug, Michael Morales, is due to be executed at
San Quentin State Prison for a crime that capped years of running with
gang-bangers and snorting, gulping or smoking every mind-twisting
substance he could get his hands on."

But he mustn't feel anything from the last drugs he ever takes...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/02/20/EXECUTE.TMP


-- 
Bob Bernstein

How is gravity to clothe itself if jest goes about in dark veils?

                                   -- Robert Schumann

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Wed Feb 22 16:29:35 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb 22 16:29:32 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tom and Madelyn, come on down!
Message-ID: <43FCD7BF.4040805@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Check out the names that pop up in this article: Tom Daschle, Madelyn
Albright...

-=snip=-

The Wall Street Journal 		

February 22, 2006
	
PAGE ONE
	
Bush, Congress Head
For Clash Over Ports Deal
President Promises a Veto,
As Republican Leaders Move
To Block Dubai Acquisition
By GREG HITT, DENNIS K. BERMAN and DANIEL MACHALABA
Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
February 22, 2006; Page A1

In a politically charged collision of economic and national-security
interests, President Bush squared off against Congressional leaders
and governors from both parties over the transfer of six U.S. shipping
ports to the management of a Middle Eastern company.

The escalating controversy over the $6.8 billion sale of Peninsular &
Oriental Steam Navigation Co., of London, to Dubai Ports World
underscores political tensions between two Republican commitments:
national security and free trade in an increasingly global economy.
Though the deal already has been approved by the U.S. government and
by shareholders -- and is set to close next month -- an increasing
number of critics are questioning the wisdom of entrusting port
security to an Arab-owned entity.

Yesterday, Senate Republican Leader Bill Frist joined Democratic
Leader Harry Reid in pushing for a delay and further study. Absent
action by the White House, Sen. Frist said he would pursue legislation
"to ensure that the deal is placed on hold." His call was echoed by
House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois.

President Bush vehemently defended the transaction, summoning
reporters accompanying him on Air Force One to insist it posed no
security threat and to say that if legislation cleared Congress to
block the deal, "I'll deal with it, with a veto." Mr. Bush, who hasn't
vetoed any legislation during his presidency, said the U.S. would be
sending "mixed signals" by acting when a British company faced no such
objections, and he challenged lawmakers to "step up and explain why a
Middle Eastern company is held to a different standard."

Back at the White House later, he added, "If there was any chance that
this transaction would jeopardize the security of the United States,
it would not go forward. But I also want to repeat something again,
and that is: This is a company that has played by the rules, that has
been cooperative with the United States, a country that's an ally in
the war on terror, and it would send a terrible signal to friends and
allies not to let this transaction go through."

With the president's popularity flagging, the White House faces a real
risk that opposition from the House and Senate leadership, fanned by
the administration's Democratic adversaries, could lead to
Congressional legislation blocking the deal. "[The administration's]
credibility on national security is not the ace that they thought it
was," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, head of the Democrats' House
campaign committee.

More broadly, a successful move to block the deal could send a
chilling signal about some foreign investment in the U.S. at time when
such investment has been critical in sustaining growth. The uproar
follows a similar outcry last year at the unsuccessful effort by a
Chinese state-controlled oil firm, Cnooc Ltd., to buy U.S. oil company
Unocal Corp.

At the least, the uproar could lead to a change in the way such deals
are reviewed. With the administration already having signed off, some
in Congress are calling for overhauling and toughening the
government's 31-year-old system for reviewing foreign investments with
national-security implications -- including creating an expanded role
for Congress. Under federal law, there is little the administration
can do at this point to derail the sale.

The deal followed the normal approval process for foreign transactions
with national-security implications. The acquisition was run through
the Treasury Department, which typically convenes experts from across
the government for what is called the Committee on Foreign Investment
in the U.S., or CFIUS. Wrapped in secrecy, the panel makes
recommendations to the president, who has final say.

"I think we're at a time where we can get some good CFIUS reform,"
said attorney Patrick Mulloy, a critic of the current approval process
who sits on a government-appointed U.S.-China trade commission. The
P&O example reveals that the Treasury Department "doesn't want to use
its authority," Mr. Mulloy said. "Foreigners finance our budget
deficits and trade deficits, and Treasury doesn't want to do anything
that will interfere with the investment flows."

Among its global holdings, P&O controls ports in New York,
Philadelphia, Baltimore, Miami, New Orleans and Newark, N.J. Its U.S.
affiliate directly employs 430 workers, while another 6,000 or so
workers are hired daily on a contract basis through the longshore union.

For its part, Dubai Ports World is backed by the government in Dubai,
one of the seven emirates that comprise the oil-rich United Arab
Emirates, a small, conservative Muslim state on the Persian Gulf. The
company's chief operating officer, Ted Bilkey, said it has worked
within U.S. law and "actually approached the U.S. government for
approval of our security arrangement weeks prior to the formal review."

In a statement, Mr. Bilkey said: "We will continue to work with the
U.S. government on maintaining the highest standards of security at
U.S. ports, and will fully cooperate in putting into place whatever is
necessary to protect the terminals." People close to the matter said
the company isn't considering stripping out the U.S. ports because it
sees no such need.

Yesterday, members of the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental
Affairs Committee -- including Republican Chairwoman Susan Collins of
Maine -- sent a letter to Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff
and Treasury Secretary John Snow expressing "serious concerns" about
the review of the sale and demanding the committee be briefed on the
process.

Also questioning the deal were two Republican governors, George Pataki
of New York and Robert Ehrlich of Maryland, and New Jersey's
Democratic Gov. Jon Corzine, all of whom have affected ports in their
states. Joining Mr. Frist were Republican leaders Jon Kyl of Arizona
and Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, both facing tough Senate
re-election races this fall.

Dubai Ports World executives plan to visit Washington this week to
brief congressional leaders and staffers and administration officials
on the deal. Girding for a battle, the company is tapping
well-connected consulting firms for help: Downey-McGrath Group,
founded by former congressmen from both parties, and Alston & Bird
LLC, whose advisers include former Senate Democratic Leader Thomas
Daschle of South Dakota.

In the background is Albright Group, a firm founded by former
Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. The Albright Group doesn't
lobby but has provided strategic advice to Dubai Ports World,
specifically on expanding the company's presence in China.

Some maritime executives said the weakest links in port security
aren't likely to be in domestic ports. "If you are worried about a
bomb in the box going off in New York, you need to worry about who
loads the container overseas rather than the terminal operator who
unloads it in the U.S.," said Theodore Prince, senior vice president
of Optimization Alternatives Ltd., a Texas provider of
terminal-operating software.
[Map]

Indeed, terminal operators represent just one of many links in a
typical international supply chain. Typically, cargo is loaded into a
container by a manufacturer or consolidation center overseas. It is
then trucked to a foreign port, put on a ship and brought to the U.S.

On the U.S. side of the transaction, a container is taken off a vessel
at a terminal and moved by truck or train to a cargo receiver. While
terminal operators play a role in security, including the fencing and
access by employees, dockworkers and truck drivers, they don't
normally touch the cargo inside the box. Security is provided by law
enforcement such as the Coast Guard and Customs and Border Protection.

Most U.S. container ports consist of multiple terminals, each of which
is leased to a separate operator, such as P&O. Such terminal operators
are responsible for developing and operating the terminal and may
subcontract to a stevedoring company that supplies the labor to load
and unload the ships. Stevedores usually hire unionized dockworkers
who are U.S. citizens.

--Jeanne Cummings contributed to this article.

Write to Greg Hitt at greg.hitt@wsj.com, Dennis K. Berman at
dennis.berman@wsj.com and Daniel Machalaba at daniel.machalaba@wsj.com

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114054059300379152.html

-=snip=-

Kinda give a guy the willies, if ya know what I mean.

-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From prather.js at verizon.net  Wed Feb 22 17:02:23 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Wed Feb 22 17:02:33 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tom and Madelyn, come on down!
In-Reply-To: <43FCD7BF.4040805@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <0IV30036EZVXI7Q0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 16:29:35 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

>Back at the White House later, he added, "If there was any chance that
>this transaction would jeopardize the security of the United States,
>it would not go forward. But I also want to repeat something again,
>and that is: This is a company that has played by the rules, that has
>been cooperative with the United States, a country that's an ally in
>the war on terror, and it would send a terrible signal to friends and
>allies not to let this transaction go through."

Tone-deaf again!  If he had said this weeks before and had
educated the public and the Congress on the real meaning of this
action, there would have been little fuss and no bother.  But
just springing it on everyone (maybe even on Bush, according to
a recent plaint) is just dumb.

Who owns and operates the ports is much less significant than
HOW the ports are operated.  There are a lot of rules in place
and DHS and Coast Guard have primary responsibility on the
receiving end of the cargo.  (As pointed out in the article,
neither the port operator nor the security apparatus can control
the loading of the containers.)  

This should have been a no-brainer for the country, and now it
seems that the Administration is the one with no brains.  I
don't know what to recommend.  The sale is benign IMHO, but the
nation's reaction is sincere and should be heeded.

How we get our feet out of this mud pit!!!


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Wed Feb 22 17:08:32 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Wed Feb 22 17:09:35 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Italian Job
Message-ID: <43FCE0E0.9070405@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

I was not surprised to find Josh Marshall's name in this article. He
seemed to know a LOT about the fakes before anyone else did. That he
worked with Crazy Mary (Mapes) at CBS doesn't help either. I think
between Marshall, Nutty Ole Joe (Wilson) and his ditzy but connected
wife, one need look no further for the ultimate authors of the fakes.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

-=snip=-

The Wall Street Journal 		

February 22, 2006
	
PAGE ONE
	
The Italian Job: How
Fake Iraq Memos
Tripped Up Ex-Spy
Rocco Martino Goes Silent
As FBI Probes the Origin
Of 'Yellowcake' Scandal
By JAY SOLOMON and GABRIEL KAHN
February 22, 2006; Page A1

For much of the past decade, Rocco Martino floated in obscurity on the
margins of the global spy game. The silver-haired Italian worked
briefly for his country's military-intelligence service, was kicked
out but continued to freelance with SISMI, as it is known. He scraped
together a living selling intelligence tips under an ever-shifting
list of aliases to other agencies or to journalists.

Then he stumbled across something that, in the charged climate
following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, he thought could be a
hot lead: 17 telexes, memos and letters purporting to show how Saddam
Hussein had acquired 500 tons of "yellowcake," a processed uranium
ore, from the African nation of Niger to build nuclear weapons.

Over dinner at an upscale Roman restaurant in October 2002, Mr.
Martino offered them to an Italian journalist for ?10,000, or nearly
$12,000.

He never got the money. The journalist concluded, correctly, that they
were fakes. Still, she ended up unwittingly feeding the papers into
the international intelligence machine, which turned them into part of
the U.S. case for toppling Saddam Hussein.

Now, the 67-year-old Mr. Martino is at the center of a Federal Bureau
of Investigation counterespionage probe, according to a senior FBI
official. As they seek to determine whether a foreign country
intentionally misled the U.S. intelligence community about Saddam's
activities, agents are trying to answer these questions: Who created
the fake intelligence in the first place, and why? Was Mr. Martino
actively trying to aid the case for war? Was he a pawn for others who
were?

"Rocco was a set up" for someone else, contends Democratic Congressman
Maurice Hinchey of New York, who failed in December to push a
resolution through the House of Representatives compelling the White
House to release documents related to the Niger case. "We still don't
know who [the Italian] was working with."

While Mr. Martino spent much of his career peddling stories to
journalists, he now won't talk to the press. He declined repeated
interview requests through his Rome lawyer, Giuseppe Placidi. Mr.
Placidi says he believes somebody must have forged the documents but
that it wasn't Mr. Martino. SISMI also has denied forging or
disseminating the dossier.

A native of the southern Italian region of Calabria, Mr. Martino spent
the early years of his professional career in the carabinieri, Italy's
military police force. His on-again, off-again relationship with SISMI
was revealed by the current head of the agency, Gen. Nicol? Pollari,
to a closed Italian parliamentary commission last year, according to
Italian Sen. Luigi Malabarba, a member of the commission.

People who have had dealings with Mr. Martino describe him as always
elegantly dressed, with well-trimmed hair and moustache, a preference
for tailored beige suits and the manners of a southern Italian gentleman.

Elisabetta Burba, the journalist who met Mr. Martino that fateful
night in October 2002, says she has known him for close to a decade
and had received solid information from him in the past, including a
scoop about an Islamic charity that had links to terror funding. For
some information she paid him, a not-uncommon practice among Italian
journalists. She says Mr. Martino had at times described himself as a
businessman and security consultant.

His lawyer, Mr. Placidi, says his client has worked recently as a paid
operative of France's intelligence service, the Direction Generale de
la Securite Exterieure, or DGSE. A spokesman for the DGSE declined
repeated requests for comment.

Others who have met him say he worked hard to convey an air of
mystery. Carlo Bonini, a reporter with Rome daily La Republica, says
he first met Mr. Martino in a Rome cafe in 2003, where he went by the
pseudonym Signor Morini. "He tried to give me the impression that he
knew a lot more than he could tell," recalls Mr. Bonini.

He also struck some of his acquaintances as being amateurish, even
forgetting the combination of the lock for his briefcase on occasions.
A business deal he entered in recent years went awry and ended with
him being charged with fraud, though he was never convicted, according
Mr. Placidi, his lawyer. He also had a scrape with the law when some
checks stolen during a robbery in Germany wound up in his hands, the
lawyer adds, declining to provide further detail.

According to several people who heard Mr. Martino's account, the bogus
Niger documents came into his possession after a tip from his
long-time handler at SISMI. The handler introduced Mr. Martino to an
Italian woman working at the Niger Embassy in Rome. Mr. Martino called
her "the signora." They had their first meeting in February 2000,
according to people familiar with Mr. Martino's account. The purported
handler couldn't be reached for comment.

The signora, identified in a report by Rome prosecutors as Laura
Montini, began regularly passing on tidbits of information, according
to Rome prosecutors and others who discussed the matter with Mr.
Martino. Mr. Martino has said that the Italian woman eventually began
providing telexes and files depicting the sale of uranium yellowcake
from Niger to Iraq, according to several people who have interviewed him.

Reached at the Niger Embassy, located in a residential neighborhood in
Rome, Ms. Montini said she has never met Mr. Martino and only learned
his name from newspapers. She also declined to confirm or deny that
she was questioned in relation to the probe conducted by Rome
prosecutors, which eventually was dropped.

It wasn't long after receiving the documents that Mr. Martino began
seeking to peddle them to potential buyers. He tried to interest
France's DGSE, according to his attorney and those who interviewed Mr.
Martino. He also traveled to Brussels and tried to pass them on to the
British Embassy, according to Gen. Pollari's testimony. Around the
same time, he sought out the wider media world, including the Italian
journalist, Ms. Burba.

Ms. Burba says she spent weeks trying to verify their authenticity,
even traveling as far as Niger. She ultimately concluded that the
dossier was a fabrication. Some of the documents were dated prior to
the events to which they referred; crucial details were missing; and
one piece of correspondence between the Niger and Iraq governments was
written, improbably, in Italian. She says Mr. Martino was upset when
she refused to pay him and sent a text message to her phone insisting
the papers were legitimate.

Even though Ms. Burba herself didn't write about them, she unwittingly
put the documents in play. As part of her attempts to corroborate the
papers, she delivered the documents to the American Embassy in Rome,
according to the journalist and an account of the event described by a
report on prewar intelligence by the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence.

Embassy officials never commented to Ms. Burba. They did send the
documents back to the State Department's intelligence arm in
Washington, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, or INR. A week
later, on Oct. 16, State Department officials in Washington were
distributing copies in a meeting of an interagency task force that
included representatives of the Central Intelligence Agency, the
Pentagon and the National Security Agency, according to the Senate report.

This wasn't the first time American officials had heard reports that
Iraq was pursuing Niger's yellowcake. SISMI had passed on tips to the
CIA to that effect in late 2001 and early 2002, according to U.S.
intelligence officials. But the Martino-Burba dossier was the first
time they had gotten first-hand evidence.

President Bush asserted in his 2003 State of the Union address that
Iraq was seeking to procure uranium from Africa. The White House
denies it relied on Mr. Martino's documents to make its claims, citing
instead a British "white paper" that made a similar claim. Several
members of the U.S. intelligence community say they are convinced that
all intelligence referring to uranium purchases from Niger were
related to Mr. Martino's documents.

"I've never seen anything from the Brits but their White Paper," says
Carl Ford, who headed INR during President Bush's first term, when the
internal debate over the Niger intelligence raged. "Since there wasn't
any separate reporting from them at that time, I assumed the British
report was based on the same documents the U.S. had picked up
overseas, or they were referring to a country other than Niger."

The International Atomic Energy Agency in March 2003 publicly
pronounced the documents to be fakes. After the U.S.-led invasion of
Iraq that same month, the CIA acknowledged that many of the claims
concerning uranium purchases in Africa were based on flawed intelligence.

As the intelligence scandal proceeded to grow, and cross continents,
Mr. Martino was finding it increasingly difficult to keep his true
identity secret, particularly as he touted a new story -- that he had
been snookered by SISMI, which used him as part of a plan to discredit
Iraq.

In the summer of 2004, the Italian met with reporters for the Sunday
Times of London in a cafe at the Brussels train station, where he
referred to himself only as "Giacomo." He alleged he had been set up
by SISMI, according to the article that ran on Aug. 1, but demanded
money for his full story.

"I sell information, I admit," he said, according to the article.
Again, Mr. Martino's payday never came. Two British journalists balked
at his request for cash, but not before surreptitiously snapping his
photograph.

With his photo now public, it wasn't long before others in Italy
recognized Mr. Martino and newspapers began to publish his name. In a
string of subsequent articles that ran in the summer of 2004,
everything from Mr. Martino's work with SISMI to his financial
troubles were published in Italian and European publications.

As pressure mounted on him in Europe, Mr. Martino began courting a
different set of journalists across the Atlantic: producers from the
CBS show "60 Minutes II," who flew him to New York twice during the
summer of 2004. The CBS journalists were reporting a story on what
role the faked Niger documents may have played in the Bush
administration's push for war in Iraq, according to three people who
worked on the project.

People who met with the Italian during his two visits describe him as
harried by the strain of the public attacks in Europe. "He was being
crushed" by circumstance outside his control, says Joshua Micah
Marshall, a New York journalist and blogger who cooperated with 60
Minutes II on the investigation and has reported extensively on the
Niger affair on his site, talkingpointsmemo.com1. "He didn't know what
he was going back to in Italy."

On a Sunday afternoon during his August stay, Mr. Martino went AWOL
from his hosts, setting off a frantic search for the Italian across
mid-Manhattan. Producers and a translator, ultimately, tracked him
down near Columbus Circle in Central Park. The people who found him
described him as shaky, crying and despondent that he might lose his
livelihood and his family.

To date, CBS has yet to run the program, because of an ongoing debate
over whether it is ready to air. Kevin Tedesco, a spokesman for 60
Minutes, says the news program's journalists continue to report the
Niger story and that "we won't rule out airing this material in the
future."

Write to Jay Solomon at jay.solomon@wsj.com and Gabriel Kahn at
gabriel.kahn@wsj.com

URL for this article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB114057841736379820.html

-=snip=-


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Wed Feb 22 17:18:20 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb 22 17:19:35 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tom and Madelyn, come on down!
In-Reply-To: <0IV30036EZVXI7Q0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602222218.k1MMILZf002783@oasis.novia.net>

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:02:23 -0500 (EST), Jerry Prather wrote:

>Tone-deaf again!  If he had said this weeks before and had
>educated the public and the Congress on the real meaning of this
>action, there would have been little fuss and no bother.  But
>just springing it on everyone (maybe even on Bush, according to
>a recent plaint) is just dumb.

>From the WSJ piece:

"The deal followed the normal approval process for foreign transactions
with national-security implications. The acquisition was run through
the Treasury Department, which typically convenes experts from across
the government for what is called the Committee on Foreign Investment
in the U.S., or CFIUS. Wrapped in secrecy, the panel makes
recommendations to the president, who has final say."

Therein lies the rub.  Why the secrecy at the CFIUS?  And if the 
president "has the final say," why is the spin now that he didn't 
initially know?  Rumsfeld was quoted on the radio this morning as not 
being in the loop and he's supposed to be on (or represented on) the 
committee!

Methinks the list of people to be taken to the woodshed is long and 
distinguished--and they should be grateful this isn't the former Soviet 
Union, or it would be a one-way trip.




From mriddle at oasis.novia.net  Wed Feb 22 17:19:18 2006
From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle)
Date: Wed Feb 22 17:22:34 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Tom and Madelyn, come on down!
In-Reply-To: <0IV30036EZVXI7Q0@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602222219.k1MMJKJx003138@oasis.novia.net>

On Wed, 22 Feb 2006 17:02:23 -0500 (EST), Jerry Prather wrote:

>Tone-deaf again!  If he had said this weeks before and had
>educated the public and the Congress on the real meaning of this
>action, there would have been little fuss and no bother.  But
>just springing it on everyone (maybe even on Bush, according to
>a recent plaint) is just dumb.



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From prather.js at verizon.net  Wed Feb 22 19:10:18 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Wed Feb 22 19:11:36 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: FW: Another Tale of a Navy Carrier Jock
Message-ID: <0IV4008WO5T5GXR1@vms042.mailsrvcs.net>

Again, I can't authenticate the source of this story, but even
if it was written by a modern Michner, what a hell of a tale!!!

==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE==================


--- Dave Riley <dave.riley@earthlink.net> wrote:

> From: "Dave Riley" <dave.riley@earthlink.net>
> To: <dave.riley@earthlink.net>
> Subject: FW: Another Tale of a Navy Carrier Jock
> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2006 05:42:54 -0500
> 
> I had my share of exciting moments during carrier ops but
> nothing like this.
> All that can be said is "Whew!".
> 
> 
>  -----Original Message-----
>  From: xxxxxxx
>  Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:40 PM
>  To: yyyyyy
>  Subject: Fw: Another Tale of A Navy Carrier Jock
> 
> Thought you might enjoy this.  One hell of a pilot!
> 
> 
> Greetings Slacker Landlubbers:
> 
> Hey, I felt the need to share with you all the exciting
> night I had on
> the 23rd.  It has nothing to do with me wanting to talk
> about me.  It
> has everything to do with sharing what will no doubt
> become a better
> story as the years go by.
> 
> So, there I was... Manned up a hot seat for the 2030
> launch about 500
> miles north of Hawaii (insert visions of many Mai-Tais
> here).  Spotted
> just forward of the navigation pole and eventually taxied
> off toward
> the island where I do a 180 and get spotted to be the
> first one off cat I
> (insert foreboding music here).  There's another Hornet
> from our
> sister squadron parked ass over the track about a quarter
> of the way down 
> the
> cat.  Eventually he gets a move on and they lower my
> launch bar and
> start the launch cycle.
> 
> All systems are go on the run-up and after waiting the
> requisite
> 5-seconds or so to make sure my flight controls are good
> to go
> (there's a lot to be said for good old cables and
> pulleys), I turn on my
> lights. As is my habit, I shift my eyes to the catwalk
> and watch the deck 
> edge
> dude, and as he starts his routine of looking left then
> right, I put
> my head back.  As the cat fires, I stage the blowers
> (lite the afterburners)
>  and am along for the ride.
> 
> Just prior to the end of the stroke there's a huge flash
> and a
> simultaneous boom!  And my world is in turmoil.  My
> little pink body
> is doing 145 knots or so and is 100 feet above the Black
> Pacific.  And
> there it stays - except for the airspeed, which decreases
> to 140
> knots. The throttles aren't going any farther forward
> despite my
> Schwarzzenegerian efforts to make them do so.
> 
> From out of the ether I hear a voice say one word:
> "Jettison." (drop your
> ordnance and external fule tanks).  Roger that!  A
> nanosecond later,
> my two drops (fuel tanks) and single MER (bomb rack) -
> about 4500
> pounds in all - are Black Pacific bound.  The airplane
> leapt up a bit,
> but not enough.
> 
> I'm now about a mile in front of the boat at 160 feet and
> fluctuating
> from 135 to 140 knots.  The next command out of the ether
> is another
> one-worder: "Eject!"
> 
> I'm still flying so I respond, "Not yet, I've still got
> it.
> 
> Finally, at 4 miles, I take a peek at my engine
> instruments and notice
> my left engine doesn't match the right (funny how quick
> glimpses at
> instruments get burned into your brain).  The left rpm is
> at 48% (full
> power is 100%) even though I'm  still doing the Ah-Nold
> thing.  I
> bring it back to mil (shut off the afterburner). About
> now I get
> another "Eject!"  Call.
> 
> "Nope, still flying."
> 
> Deputy CAG (Deputy Carrier Air Group Commander) was
> watching
> and the further I got from the boat, the lower I looked. 
> About 5 miles,
> I asked tower to please get the helo (rescue helicopter)
> headed my way
> as I truly thought I was going to be shelling out
> (ejecting).  At this point
> I thought it would probably be a good idea to start
> dumping some gas
> (from the interenal fuel tanks).  As my hand reached down
> for the dump
> switch I actually remembered that we have a NATOPS
> prohibition regarding
> dumping while in burner.  After a second or two I
> decided, "hell with that"
> and turned them (dumps) on.  I was later told I had a 60
> foot roman candle 
> going.
> 
> At 7 miles I eventually started a (very slight) climb.  A
> little breathing 
> room.
> CATCC (Carrier Air Traffic Control Center -- provides
> radar control and
> radar final approach control) chimes in with a downwind
> heading and I'm 
> like:
> "Ooh.  Good idea," and throw down my hook.  Eventually I
> get headed
> downwind at 900 feet and ask for a rep.  While waiting I
> shut down the
> left engine.  In short order I hear "Fuzz's" voice.
> 
> I tell him the following: "OK Fuzz, my (landing) gear's
> up, my left motor's 
> off
> and I'm only able to stay level with min(imum) blower
> (afterburner).
> Every time I pull it to mil (shut off the afterburner) I
> start about a
> hundred feet per minute down."
> 
> I continue trucking downwind trying to stay level and
> keep dumping (fuel).
> I think I must have been in blower for about fifteen
> minutes.  At ten miles
> or so I'm down to 5000 pounds of gas and start a turn
> back toward the
> ship.  Don't intend to land, but don't want to get too
> far away, either.
> Of course, as soon I as I start in an angle of bank, I
> start dropping like
> a stone so I end up doing a 5 mile circle around the
> ship.  Meanwhile,
> Fuzz is reading me the single engine rate-of-climb
> numbers from the PCL
> based on temperature, etc. It doesn't take us long to
> figure out that things
> aren't adding up.  So why the hell do I need blower to
> stay level!?
> 
> By this time I'm talking to Fuzz (CATCC) ), Deputy
> (turning on the flight 
> deck
> -- in an aircraft on the flight deck with the engine
> running)) and CAG who's
> 
> on
> the bridge with the Captain.  We decide that the thing to
> do is climb to 
> three
> thousand feet and dirty up (place landing gear and flaps
> down). I get 
> headed
> downwind, go full burner on my remaining motor and
> eventually make it to
> 2000 feet before leveling out below a scattered layer of
> puffies. There's a
> half a moon above which was really, really cool.  Start a
> turn back toward
> the ship, and when I get pointed in the right direction,
> I throw the 
> (landing) gear
> down and pull the throttle out of AB (afterburner).
> 
> Remember that flash/boom!  That started this little tale?
>  Repeat it here.
> Holy shit!  I jam it back into AB and after three or four
> huge compressor
> stalls and accompanying decelleration, the right motor
> comes back.
> 
> This next part is great.  You know those stories about
> guys who dead-stick
> (land with no engine power) crippled airplanes away from
> orphanages and
> puppy stores and stuff and get all this great media
> attention?  Well, at 
> this point
> I'm looking at the picket ship (accompanying destroyer at
> my left 11 at 
> about
> two miles and I say on departure (radio) freq(uency) to
> no one in 
> particular,
> "You need to have the picket ship hang a left right now. 
> I think I'm gonna 
> be
> outta here in a second."  I said it very calmly but with
> meaning.  The LSO's
> 
> said that
> the picket immediately started pitching out of the fight.
>  Ha!  I scored 
> major
> points with the heavies afterwards for this.  Anyway,
> it's funny how your 
> mind
> works in these situations.
> 
> OK, so I'm dirty and I get it back level and pass a
> couple miles up the
> starboard side of the ship.  I'm still in minimum blower
> and my fuel
> state is now about 2500 pounds.  Hmmm.  I hadn't really
> thought about
> running out of gas.  I muster up the nads to pull it out
> of blower
> again and sure enough...flash, BOOM!  YGTBSM!
> 
> I leave it in mil and it seems to settle out.  Eventually
> discover that even
> the tiniest throttle movements cause the flash/boom thing
> to happen so
> I'm trying to be as smooth as I can.  I'm downwind a
> couple miles when
> CAG comes up and says "Oyster, we're going to rig the
> barricade." (a
> very tall cross-deck "fence" of vertical nylon straps
> between horizontal
> top and bottom cables rigged from vertical flight d eck
> stanchions -- to
> catch/land an airplane that cannot land normally or that
> has an emergency
> and only has one landing attempt left).Remember, CAG's up
> on the
> bridge watching me fly around doing blower donuts in the
> sky and he's
> thinking I'm gonna run outta JP-5 too.  By now I've told
> everyone who's
> listening that there a better than average chance that
> I'm going to be
> ejecting - the helo bubbas, god bless 'em, have been
> following me
> around this entire time.
> 
> I continue downwind and again, sounding more calm than I
> probably was,
> call paddles.  "Paddles, you up?"
> 
> "Go ahead" replies "Max," one of our CAG (Air Wing) LSO's
> (Landing
> Signal Officers).
> 
> "Max, I probably know most of it but you wanna shoot me
> the barricade
> brief?"  (Insert long pause here).  After the fact, Max
> told me they went
> from expecting me to eject to me asking for the barricade
> brief
> (procedures for landing into the barricade) in about a
> minute and he
> was hyper-ventilating.  He was awesome on the radio
> though, just
> the kind of voice you'd want to hear in this situation. 
> He gives me
> the brief and at nine miles I say, "If I turn now, will
> it be up when I
> get there?  I don't want to have to go around again."
> 
> "It's going up now Oyster, go ahead and turn."
> 
> "Turning in, say final bearing."
> 
> "zero-six-three" replies the voice in CATCC.  (Another
> number I
> remember - go figure).
> 
> OK, we're on a four degree glide slope and I'm at 800
> feet or so.  I
> intercept glide slope at about a mile and three quarters
> and pull
> power.  Flash/boom!  Add power out of fear. Going high.
> Pull power.
> Flash/boom!  Add power out of fear. Going higher.
> (Flashback to LSO
> school....All right class, today's lecture will be on the
> single engine
> barricade approach.  Remember, the one place you really,
> REALLY don't
> want to be is high.  Are there any questions?)  The PLAT
> video is most
> excellent as each series of flash/booms shows up nicely
> along with the
> appropriate reflections on the water.  "Flats," our other
> CAG paddles
> is backing up (helping the primary LSO) and as I start to
> set up a
> higher than desired sink rate he hits the "Eat At Joe's"
> lights. Very
> timely too.  [note: wave-off lights - a guts-ball
> decision]
> 
> I stroke AB (to waive off) and cross the flight deck with
> my right hand
> on the stick and my left thinking about the little yellow
> and black handle
> between my legs (the "alternate" ejection handle).  No
> worries.  I
> cleared that sucker by at least ten feet.  By the way my
> (fuel) state at
> the ball call was 1.1 1,100 pounds of fuel). As I slowly
> climb out I say,
> again to no one in particular, "I can do this."
> 
> Max and Flats heard this and told me later it made them
> feel much
> better about my state of mind.  I'm in blower still and
> CAG says, "Turn
> downwind."  Again, good idea.  After I get turned around
> he says,
> "Oyster, this is gonna be your last look (landing
> attempt), so turn in
> again as soon as you're comfortable."  I lose about 200
> feet in the
> turn and like a total dumbsh_t I look out as I get on
> centerline and
> that night thing (perception) about feeling high gets me
> and I descend
> further to 400 feet.  I got kinda pissed at myself then
> as I realized I
> would now be intercepting (flying into) the four degree
> glide slope
>  in the middle.
> 
> No shit fellas, flash/boom every several seconds all the
> way down.
> Last look at my gas was 600-and-some pounds at a mile and
> a half.  "Where
> am I on the glideslope Max?"  I ask ask and hear a calm,
> "Roger Ball."
> 
> I know I'm low because the ILS (glide slope indicator) is
> waaay up
> there and I call "Clara" (I cant see the fresnel lens
> indicator -- the
> "ball" that tells you whether your aircraft is higher,
> ok, or lower than
> you should be). Can't remember what the response was but
> by
> now the ball's shooting up from the depths.  I start
> flying it and
> before I get a chance to spot the deck.  I hear "Cut,
> cut, cut!"
>  I'm really glad I was a paddles (LSO) for so long
> because my
> mind said to me, "Do what he says Oyster," and I pulled
> it (engine)
> back  to idle.  The reason I mention this is that I felt
> like I was
> a LONG F$#@!  WAYS OUT THERE - if you know what I
> mean (my hook hit 11 Oyster paces from the ramp, as I
> discovered during FOD walkdown today).
> 
> The rest is pretty tame.  I hit the deck, skipped the
> one, the two,
>  and snagged the three (cross-deck arresting cable) (with
> the
> aircraft tail hook) and rolled into the barricade about a
> foot right of
> centerline.  Once stopped my vocal chords involuntarily
> yelled
> "Victory!"  On button 2 (radio channel no. 2) (the 14
> guys who were 
> listening in marshal
> said it was pretty cool.  After the fact I wish I had
> done the Austin
> Powers' "Yeah Baby!"  Thing.)  The lights came up and off
> to my right there
> must have been a ga-zillion cranials.  Paddles said that
> with my shutdown
> you could hear a huge cheer across the flight deck.  I
> open the canopy and
> start putting my sh_t in my helmet bag and the first guy
> I see is our
> Flight Deck Chief, huge guy named Chief Richards and he
> gives me the
> coolest look and then two thumbs up.  I will remember it
> forever.
> Especially since I'm the Maintenance Officer.  I climb
> down and people
> are gathering around patting me on the back when one of
> the boat's
> crusty yellow-shirt chiefs interrupts and says,
> "Gentlemen, great job
> but fourteen of your good buddies are still up there and
> we need to
> get them aboard."  Again, priceless.
> 
> So there you have it fellas.  Here I sit with my little
> pink body in a
> ready room chair on the same tub I did my first cruise in
> 10 years and
> 7 months ago.  And I thought it was exciting back then!
> 
> P. S. You're probably wondering what made my motors sh_t
> themselves
> and I almost forgot to tell you.  Remember the scene with
> the foreboding
> music?  When they taxied that last Hornet - the one that
> was over the
> cat track - they forgot to remove a section or two of the
> cat seal (very
> heavy strip of rubber that is placed into the catapult
> tracks when not in
> operation). The [flight mishap] board's not finished yet,
> but it's a done 
> deal.  As
> the shuttle came back it removed the cat seal which went
> (into the engine
> air intakes and) down both motors during the (catapult)
> stroke.  During the
> waveoff, one of the LSO's saw "about thirty feet" of
> black rubber hanging
> off the left side of the airplane. The whole left side,
> including inside the
>  intake is basically black where the rubber was beating
> on it in the breeze.
> The right motor, the one that kept running, has 340 major
> hits to all 
> stages.
> The compressor section is trashed and best of all, it had
> two pieces of the
> cat seal -one about 2 feet and the other about 4 feet
> long --sticking out
> of the first stage and into the intake.  God Bless
> General Electric!
> 
> P. P.S. By the way, the data showed that I was fat - had
> 380 pounds of
> gas when I shut down.  Again, remember this number as in
> ten years I
> will surely be claiming, FUMES MAN, FUMES I TELL YOU!
> 
> Oyster out...
> 
> - - - -
> 
> This is a good story that describes what most of us don't
> see/hear
> about from those out there on the pointy tip of the
> spear. Sleep well at
> night because the good guys are out there keeping things
> safe for us
> here at home.
> 

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Wed Feb 22 23:06:58 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Wed Feb 22 23:07:38 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] interesting info about pharmacy mark-ups
Message-ID: <46d72e000602222006q70a6cbb4wbc355256b2f0565d@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/generic.asp
Later,
Daniel

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Thu Feb 23 02:02:11 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Thu Feb 23 02:02:49 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Hitch
Message-ID: <43FD5DF3.1030801@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Hitchens:

"It is best not to mince words. The imprisonment of David Irving by
the Austrian authorities is a disgrace."

http://sixtiessurvivor.org/shockhorror/node/105



-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From prather.js at verizon.net  Thu Feb 23 08:30:48 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Thu Feb 23 08:32:48 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Hitch
In-Reply-To: <43FD5DF3.1030801@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <0IV500CEV6VD3OY2@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 02:02:11 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

>Hitchens:
>
>"It is best not to mince words. The imprisonment of David Irving by
>the Austrian authorities is a disgrace."
>
>http://sixtiessurvivor.org/shockhorror/node/105

Would the President of Iran please visit Austria?  <G>

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 18:46:08 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Thu Feb 23 19:14:57 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Hey you Ohioans
Message-ID: <46d72e000602231546k4312652ax9f0b1ee4c0f8efa0@mail.gmail.com>

<http://cl.e.newsmax.com/?ffcb10-fe5411727c63067a761c-fe0215707664007a71137375-ff2c1d70746d>
Ken Blackwell for governor.
Are there any Ohioans on this list?
Later,
Daniel

From prather.js at verizon.net  Thu Feb 23 19:23:11 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Thu Feb 23 19:23:57 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Hey you Ohioans
In-Reply-To: <46d72e000602231546k4312652ax9f0b1ee4c0f8efa0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0IV600CTZ12L9695@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:46:08 -0600, Daniel Kruse wrote:

>Are there any Ohioans on this list?

Are you not aware of Dennis?????


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 19:27:48 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Thu Feb 23 19:28:58 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Hey you Ohioans
In-Reply-To: <0IV600CTZ12L9695@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <46d72e000602231546k4312652ax9f0b1ee4c0f8efa0@mail.gmail.com>
	<0IV600CTZ12L9695@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602231627m41928b62r17340dafcea6068f@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/23/06, Jerry Prather <prather.js@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 17:46:08 -0600, Daniel Kruse wrote:
>
> >Are there any Ohioans on this list?
>
> Are you not aware of Dennis?????
>
>
> Jerry
>
That wasn't Indiana?  Oops, sorry.  Any additional Ohioans out there?
Daniel

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Thu Feb 23 19:40:34 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Thu Feb 23 19:40:57 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Hey you Ohioans
In-Reply-To: <46d72e000602231546k4312652ax9f0b1ee4c0f8efa0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <46d72e000602231546k4312652ax9f0b1ee4c0f8efa0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200602231940.34309.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Daniel Kruse:
| Ken Blackwell for governor.

yup. absolutely.
-- 
dep

It is the main earthly business of a human being to make his home, and
the immediate surroundings of his home, as symbolic and significant
to his own imagination as he can.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From prather.js at verizon.net  Thu Feb 23 20:56:18 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Thu Feb 23 20:56:58 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Iranian Censors...
Message-ID: <0IV60093L5DVD382@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

News to me, but not entirely surprising, is the following quote
from the March issue of JAZZIZ magazine:

"Iran president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ordered enactment of a
ruling to ban Western music from Iran radio and television
stations in December, recalling the Ayatollah Khomeini's similar
cultural decree after the 1979 Islamic revolution.  Under the
ban, songs by pop stars Eric Clapton and The Eagles, plus Iran
favorites by contemporary jazz saxophonist Kenny G, would no
longer be allowed on the airwaves.

[So far, so good.  He is exhibiting some good taste in his
specifics.  <G>]

"'Blocking indecent and Western music from the Islamic Republic
of Iran Broadcasting is required," states the Iran Supreme
Cultural Revolutionary Council's official website.  "Supervision
of content from films, TV series, and their voice-overs is
emphasized in order to support spiritual cinema and to eliminate
triteness and violence."'

The last sentence is particularly grating due to all the
violence in the Islamic world over the "cartoons".  We should
have supressed the cartoons just as they are suppressing
music???  And it's okay that they blow up mosques of another
sect as long as they don't show an image of the Prophet while in
the act?  

I don't get these nuts.



Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From m.o.davis at gte.net  Thu Feb 23 21:18:42 2006
From: m.o.davis at gte.net (Mark Davis)
Date: Thu Feb 23 21:19:57 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Shooting Match
References: <BAY103-F96E4285849FF34FEBAA76A5F20@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <9A393910-E660-4ECB-82F9-92359264DA26@gte.net>



Begin forwarded message:

> A game to hone your skills!
> You will like this and so will the kids.  Its just too perfect
>
> http://www.quailhuntingschool.com/flash.php


-- 
Mark Davis
San Angelo, TX

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Thu Feb 23 21:31:47 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Thu Feb 23 21:31:57 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Ann Coulter. Who else?
Message-ID: <43FE7013.7030804@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

"Two days after the Times editorial page justified its decision not to
reprint the cartoons as "a reasonable choice for news organizations
that usually refrain from gratuitous assaults on religious symbols,
especially since the cartoons are so easy to describe in words," the
Times ran a photo of the Virgin Mary covered in cutouts from
pornographic magazines and cow dung -- which I seem to have just
described using a handful of common words! Gee, that was easy!"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucac/20060223/cm_ucac/sothreemuslimswalkintoaport


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Thu Feb 23 21:41:38 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Thu Feb 23 21:41:59 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Shooting Match
In-Reply-To: <9A393910-E660-4ECB-82F9-92359264DA26@gte.net>
References: <BAY103-F96E4285849FF34FEBAA76A5F20@phx.gbl>
	<9A393910-E660-4ECB-82F9-92359264DA26@gte.net>
Message-ID: <43FE7262.8050508@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

Mark Davis wrote:

>> http://www.quailhuntingschool.com/flash.php

My faith in, and hope for, Western Civilization, have been renewed!


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com  Thu Feb 23 21:43:43 2006
From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse)
Date: Thu Feb 23 21:44:59 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Ann Coulter. Who else?
In-Reply-To: <43FE7013.7030804@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
References: <43FE7013.7030804@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <46d72e000602231843v6ac5a6c8rab859b2ab4debf@mail.gmail.com>

On 2/23/06, Bob Bernstein <rs@bernstein.providence.ri.us> wrote:
> "Two days after the Times editorial page justified its decision not to
> reprint the cartoons as "a reasonable choice for news organizations
> that usually refrain from gratuitous assaults on religious symbols,
> especially since the cartoons are so easy to describe in words," the
> Times ran a photo of the Virgin Mary covered in cutouts from
> pornographic magazines and cow dung -- which I seem to have just
> described using a handful of common words! Gee, that was easy!"
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucac/20060223/cm_ucac/sothreemuslimswalkintoaport
>
>
> --
> Bob Bernstein
>
Excellent, as always.
Daniel

From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Thu Feb 23 23:52:55 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Thu Feb 23 23:54:02 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Iranian Censors...
In-Reply-To: <0IV60093L5DVD382@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IV60093L5DVD382@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <37467.70.172.219.12.1140756775.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Thu, February 23, 2006 8:56 pm, Jerry Prather said:

> And it's okay that they blow up mosques of another sect as long as
> they don't show an image of the Prophet while in the act?
>
> I don't get these nuts.

Recall how, only recently, Roundheads and Cavaliers put their lives on
the line for their "sect." Recall too, how Locke, his magnificent
Letter On Toleration notwithstanding, surely would not have
countenanced public teaching of atheism or Mohammedanism.

It is for such considerations that I called Hitchens' piece "a
marvelous document."

http://sixtiessurvivor.org/shockhorror/node/105

He reminds us that much of what we value as the core of "civilization"
has only been extant since the eighteenth century:

"I myself once sued Henry Kissinger, and made him retract a charge of
Holocaust denial he had foolishly made against me, but I would never
have seen him imprisoned (or not for his opinions, at any rate). This
distinction is vital, and is one of the crucial elements of what we
still quaintly call "the Enlightenment.""

This correctly sets the terms of the the struggle: the imams vs. the
Enlightenment. You can be certain the imams see it likewise; that is
what explains the diligence with which they have stirred the 'Arab
street,' taking crafty advantage of the cartoon issue. Their
controlling grasp over the lives of millions of believers is at stake,
and they know it.

That Austria, and now, today, Germany, have imprisoned perpetrators of
thought crimes calls attention to their unremitted Enlightenment
deficits. If there is such a thing as historical pathology, those
outposts of Europe certainly manifest it.


-- 
Bob Bernstein

How is gravity to clothe itself if jest goes about in dark veils?

                                   -- Robert Schumann

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Fri Feb 24 13:47:56 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Fri Feb 24 13:50:13 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] curling
Message-ID: <200602241347.56651.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

well, it's all but over. the canadians, who are very good at sliding 
rocks with handles on them over carefully prepared ice, scored 6 just 
now, taking them to 10-3 over finland. (linux users: carefully check 
any commits linus makes today -- he might be so distraught that he 
reformats the internet.)

can;t wait for the summer olympics and that other interesting game, 
where they throw a telephone pole about a foot.
-- 
dep

To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in
doing it.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Fri Feb 24 19:49:11 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Fri Feb 24 19:50:18 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Trial of the (short) Century?
Message-ID: <43071.70.172.219.12.1140828551.squirrel@legomenon.org>

This is getting byzantine, the prelims for Scooter's trial, set for
Jan, 2007:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060225/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/cia_leak

"Former White House aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, charged with
perjury in the CIA leak case, cannot be told the identity of another
government official who is said to have divulged a CIA operative's
identity to reporters, a federal judge ruled Friday."

And, why is it that, with every new mention of Mr. Fitzgerald, I
become more and more convinced that the man is a dangerous moron?

"Libby's lawyers and Fitzgerald disagreed over whether the
unidentified government official ? who does not work at the White
House ? was referring to Plame or her husband when he said, "Everyone
knows," during a taped interview with investigators.

"The defense said the official meant that most reporters knew that
Plame worked at the CIA, as Libby testified before a federal grand
jury. But Fitzgerald said the reference was to Wilson, who was not
identified in initial media reports about the trip to Niger."

Huh?

At any rate, it seems that all Scooter has to do is show that his
defense is impossible without all sorts of really really secret stuff
-- the daily briefings -- that he knows W. will never hand over.
Here's Reggie Walton, the judge in the case:

"The vice president ? his boss ? said these are the family jewels,"
the judge said, referring to Cheney's past description of the daily
briefings. "If the executive branch says, 'This is too important to
the welfare of the nation and we're not going to comply,' the criminal
prosecution goes away."

But let me ask: how does a guy named "Reggie" get to be a judge? I
went to school with a guy named Reggie, and the only he was any good
at was playing hockey:  a sport which puts a premium on slippery,
deceptive behaviour. If you ever saw Gordie Howe or the great Camille
Henry of the Rangers, you'd understand what I'm telling you!

Judge Reggie???


-- 
Bob Bernstein

How is gravity to clothe itself if jest goes about in dark veils?

                                   -- Robert Schumann

From spmaiorca at cox.net  Fri Feb 24 21:44:06 2006
From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net)
Date: Fri Feb 24 21:46:20 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Trial of the (short) Century?
Message-ID: <20060225024215.YCIZ20050.fed1rmmtao06.cox.net@[172.18.180.8]>


> 
> From: "Bob Bernstein" <zoidberg@legomenon.org>
> Date: 2006/02/24 Fri PM 04:49:11 PST
> To: os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com
> Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] The Trial of the (short) Century?
> 
> This is getting byzantine, the prelims for Scooter's 
It's Eastern Roman Empire....
-Patrick

From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Feb 25 01:33:16 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sat Feb 25 01:38:31 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Today's must-read.
Message-ID: <43FFFA2C.6070809@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

"...four rabbis [are] debating an obscure point of law. Rabbi
Feinstein is outvoted 3-1, and prays for a sign from above. A heavenly
voice announces, "Feinstein is right!" The other rabbis shrug, "So now
it's 3-2."

"What we learn...is that a sense of divine presence is what makes the
Devil's sourdough digestible."

The latest from Spengler:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/HB22Aa02.html



-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Feb 25 15:55:55 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sat Feb 25 15:56:37 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Michael who?
Message-ID: <4400C45B.2050106@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

File under: Just shoot me now, please.

>From an AP story today:

"Security is everybody's business," senior vice president [of DP
World] Michael Moore told The Associated Press. "We're going to have a
very open mind to legitimate concerns. But anything we can do, any way
to improve security, should apply to everybody equally."

Arrggghhhh.

This story is notable too as an example of the brazenness with which
reporters now trumpet their leaking of classified material:

"The report concluded that U.S. spy agencies were "unable to locate
any derogatory information on the company," according to a person
familiar with the document. This person spoke only on condition of
anonymity because the report was classified."

Translation: "Hey everybody! Look here! I've got someone to talk TO ME
about what's in a classified report! Look at me!!! Look at me!!! Oh,
by the way, did I mention? THE REPORT WAS CLASSIFIED!!! WOOPEEE!!!!"


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060225/ap_on_go_pr_wh/ports_security



-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift
From prather.js at verizon.net  Sat Feb 25 16:40:45 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sat Feb 25 16:41:37 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Michael who?
In-Reply-To: <4400C45B.2050106@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <0IV9000NSIVVXRN0@vms044.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 15:55:55 -0500, Bob Bernstein wrote:

>Look at me!!! Look at me!!! Oh,
>by the way, did I mention? THE REPORT WAS CLASSIFIED!!! WOOPEEE!!!!"

Fry him for disclosing information he knew to be classified. 
Our federal prosecutors have no guts when the press is involved.
 :-(
(And when was the last time a leaker was honestly nailed???)


Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us  Sat Feb 25 18:33:49 2006
From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sat Feb 25 18:33:40 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Really? Who knew?
Message-ID: <4400E95D.1080107@bernstein.providence.ri.us>

"...the most comprehensive and reliable reporting on this entire
episode came not from the Boston Globe or the New York Times, but from
the part-time student editors of the [Harvard] Crimson."

Gee, what a shock. Really? Who knew?

-=snip=-

The Weekly Standard

Harvard Lays an Egg
The triumph of the diversity faction and the fall of Larry Summers
by James Piereson
03/06/2006, Volume 011, Issue 24


When the late Allan Bloom visited the Harvard campus some years ago to
deliver a speech on his bestselling book The Closing of the American
Mind, he began his remarks with the salutation, "Fellow Elitists," a
takeoff on Franklin Roosevelt's address years earlier to the nativist
Daughters of the American Revolution which he introduced with the
words, "Fellow Immigrants." Bloom was having some fun at the expense
of Harvard's students and faculty, all of whom had competed mightily
to gain entrance to one of the most selective and prestigious colleges
in the world, only to turn around once there to adopt a posture of
thoughtless egalitarianism. He was also making the deeper point that
higher education ought to involve the pursuit of excellence rather
than of vulgar equality or "diversity."

Bloom's indictment came to mind with the news of the forced
resignation of Lawrence Summers from the presidency of Harvard
University. Summers, perhaps in a somewhat ham-fisted style, had tried
to make the case for excellence at Harvard but generated furious
resistance and opposition in the process. His ouster speaks volumes
about the anti-intellectualism that is engulfing Harvard and others of
our great academic institutions.

Summers's resignation, to be sure, came as no surprise. The
announcement even seemed anticlimactic in view of the battle that had
been waged against him for more than a year by activists on the arts
and sciences faculty. Given this strife, it was perhaps inevitable
that members of the Harvard Corporation, the university's governing
body, would sooner or later ask him to step aside. His term in office,
which began with such promise, thus ended prematurely after just five
years, the shortest of any presidential tenure at Harvard in more than
a century. When Summers departs in June, he will be replaced on an
interim basis by Derek Bok, who will turn 76 in March, and who was
himself president from 1971 to 1991.

Still, notwithstanding its inevitability, the end of the Summers
presidency marks a sad day for higher education. Despite all the talk
about his abrasive personality and headstrong management style,
Summers was a casualty of the left-wing ideological standards erected
by Harvard's arts and sciences faculty. The historian Bernard DeVoto
wrote decades ago that the Harvard he knew was "a republic within the
Republic, a church that cuts across the churches, a class drawn from
all classes." That ideal now seems far beyond our reach. The Harvard
on display during the Summers ordeal resembles more a mad collection
of petty interests pushing and pulling on one another for money,
position, and advantage.

There are certainly many lessons to be learned from this debacle, but
two immediately stand out: first, that our major academic institutions
are run by their faculties, not by trustees or students, or by donors
or alumni; and, second, that the activist members of faculties will
not accept from presidents (or deans or provosts) any contradiction of
cherished ideological assumptions, most of which revolve around the
magical word "diversity." Presidents at other institutions, and
administrators harboring aspirations for advancement to presidential
posts, are bound to take note of Summers's downfall, and will
certainly take steps to avoid a similar fate.

Summers was appointed in 2001, the 27th in a line of presidents that
stretches back to Harvard's founding in 1636. He came to the post with
a reputation as something of a wunderkind in the fields of economics
and finance: one of the youngest individuals in modern history to win
tenure at Harvard, the first social scientist to receive the
prestigious Alan T. Waterman award from the National Science
Foundation, winner of the John Bates Clark medal given by the American
Economics Association to the outstanding American economist under the
age of 40. By 45 he had served as chief economist of the World Bank,
undersecretary of the treasury for international affairs, and,
finally, secretary of the treasury in the Clinton administration. His
impressive record, however, was accompanied by a reputation for
brashness and blunt-speaking that many warned would lead to trouble in
academe, where sensitivity and consultation trump just about every
other virtue.

Summers's appointment was initially hailed as a sign that Harvard
wished to renew a tradition of having as its president an educational
visionary who might be a reformer in Cambridge but also a national
spokesman for the ideals of higher education. His arrival on campus
was thus something of a slap at Neil Rudenstine, his publicly
diffident predecessor, who had himself run afoul of important faculty
interests with the suggestion that Harvard should amend its ancient
financial rule of "every tub on its own bottom." At most institutions,
presidents are expected to be fundraisers and managers rather than
intellectual spokesmen, but Harvard with its $26 billion endowment
could afford a leader who might communicate ideas instead of romancing
potential donors full time.

The thought that Summers might be the modern day equivalent of
nationally influential presidents like Charles William Eliot
(1869-1909) or James Bryant Conant (1933-53) was perhaps naive in view
of the changes of the past half-century--in particular the emergence
of an assertive and highly politicized faculty. Nevertheless, Summers
gave it a good try. In an early address, he laid out an ambitious (and
admirable) agenda for strengthening undergraduate education,
recruiting outstanding young scholars who might begin to replace a
rapidly aging tenured faculty, and turning Harvard into an institution
that tolerates a spectrum of controversial ideas. Summers, moreover,
made clear early and often that he was devoted to a meritocratic ideal
that required the recruitment of the best scholars in the world. Yet
he may not have fully realized that such a commitment put him on a
collision course with parts of the faculty just as fully committed to
an egalitarian conception of the university.

Summers's background as a political appointee in Washington may have
been poor preparation for a modern college president. He would have
learned there that just about every position taken generates
adversaries from the opposition party but also allies from one's own.
As a Democrat, moreover, he would have also seen that opposition came
generally from conservatives. The world of national politics
encourages disagreement, debate, and opposition as instruments of
effective policy. None of these lessons applied at Harvard, where a
controversial position would generate nothing but opposition,
important disagreements were suppressed or ruled out of bounds, and
the political spectrum was distorted far to the left. He had been used
to operating as a liberal, but now found himself on unfamiliar ground
as a moderate or-heaven forbid!--a conservative.

Summers's major sin in the eyes of the liberal and left-wing faculty
was his insensitivity to the diversity regime that has taken over at
Harvard and just about every other major institution in the country.
This regime is propped up by mythical presumptions, the major one
being that the United States has been guilty of oppressing or
otherwise holding back various groups, especially blacks, women,
homosexuals, American Indians, people of Hispanic origin, and others
who make up perhaps 75 percent of our population. These groups, so the
argument goes, are owed special consideration on the campus by virtue
of their victimization, which means in practice that no one is allowed
to question their oppressed status, their claims to special
consideration, or their privilege to complain about any institutional
practice that they find inconvenient.

The diversity industry that has grown up around the campus asserts
(without any evidence) that a departure from proportional
representation in any field or department is, ipso facto, evidence of
discrimination. This is why there exist preferential hiring practices
for women and minority groups on every campus, and various scholarship
programs, publications, study centers, and curricular offerings
designed specifically for every designated group. All have created
their own advocacy groups to press their claims, the most influential
one on the Harvard Campus being the Women's Caucus of the Faculty of
Arts and Sciences. Most intelligent people understand that these
practices have been carried beyond the point of absurdity but have no
idea how to rein them in. Summers, as it turned out, endorsed the
diversity regime in the abstract (otherwise he could never have been
hired) but, given his simultaneous belief in excellence, could not
help but take steps or make comments that contradicted it.

Summers's transgressions began shortly after he took office, when he
challenged Cornel West, a member of the Afro-American Studies
Department, to pay more attention to scholarship than to making
recordings of rap music-a seemingly appropriate and innocuous charge
for a president to give to a faculty member. Yet West took offense, as
did others on the faculty, on the grounds that Summers had been
racially insensitive and had no right to chastise a member of the
faculty about his research. For his pains, West was inundated with
handsome offers from other institutions, and shortly headed off to
Princeton.

Summers next gained public attention by observing that efforts to
force the university to divest investments from companies doing
business with Israel were, as he said, "anti-Semitic in their effect
if not in their intent." Critics on the faculty denounced this
accurate statement as "inflammatory"--while ignoring the inflammatory
actions that had provoked it. Summers later spoke warmly about the
American military, expressed support for our soldiers in the field,
and called for the return of ROTC to the campus--all of which further
inflamed left-wing elements on the faculty.

Then, early last year, Summers dropped the bomb that would lead
directly to his ouster. Speaking at a research conference on the
subject "Diversifying the Science and Engineering Workforce," he
suggested, citing research literature, that the paucity of female
professors in fields like physics, astronomy, and mathematics was due
less to discrimination and more to career choices, the unwillingness
to put in "80 hour weeks" and differences in "aptitude" between the
sexes. He called for more research on the subject, though his critics
on the faculty, outraged by the suggestion that there might be deep
differences between men and women, insisted that it was wrong for the
president to call for research on a subject about which they had made
up their minds.

Summers's remarks, which lasted forty minutes, were a broadside, from
the point of view of an economist, against the central premises of the
diversity ideology. Many factors other than discrimination, he said,
account for group disparities in various occupations, and it is
impossible to engineer representational equality in a marketplace in
which people are constantly making independent choices as to how to
allocate time and money. Summers's assessment was obviously true, but
it was also one that left-wing faculty members, particularly
feminists, did not wish to hear. The fallout from these remarks is
vivid evidence that, of all the victim groups on campus, the feminists
wield by far the greatest influence.

It is unfortunate that in response to heated criticisms Summers chose
to apologize for his remarks instead of defending them on intellectual
grounds. Within a week, he issued an abject apology. "I deeply regret
the impact of my comments," he said, "and apologize for not having
weighed them more carefully." He went on to say that he regretted
sending an "unintended signal" that might discourage talented women
from pursuing careers in science. Summers was obviously in internal
conflict over the diversity issue, one day attacking its central
presumptions while the next apologizing for having so offended key
groups on campus.

The episode was a boon for the feminist groups, so much so that one
suspects they worked overtime to keep the controversy alive in order
to extract maximum concessions from their mortally wounded president.
Soon, Summers appointed historian Drew Faust to head an initiative to
improve the status of women in the university. She remarked at the
time that Summers's talk had created "a moment of enormous
possibility" for women on the campus. Next a new "deanship of
diversity" was created to advise the dean of the Faculty of Arts and
Sciences on issues of importance to women and minorities. Then, a few
months later, Summers announced an initiative to spend $50 million
over the next decade to increase the number of women on Harvard's faculty.

Summers was plainly working overtime to make amends to those whom he
had offended, though it would have been better if he had stood his
ground. He might not thereby have saved his job, but he at least would
have opened the way for a genuine debate over diversity, which will no
doubt be driven underground once more in the wake of this episode.

The apologies and concessions did Summers little good, for the
advocates of diversity on campus will tolerate nothing less than
wholehearted endorsement of their aims. The uproar led to three
tumultuous meetings of the arts and sciences faculty in which Summers
was denounced for his remarks about women and science, for his
(alleged) imperious management style, and for his violation of the
norms of the campus "community"--this last a code word for speaking
contrary to the diversity regime. In the last of these meetings, last
March, the faculty passed an unprecedented resolution of "no
confidence" by a vote of 218 to 185. As Professor Alan Dershowitz has
pointed out, the resolution originally contained an explanatory note
(later removed) that justified the action in terms of the president's
"ongoing convictions about the capacities and rights not only of women
but also of African Americans, third-world nations, gay people, and
colonized peoples." This note, as Dershowitz concludes, made it clear
that Summers's main fault in the eyes of the faculty was that he was
not sympathetic to the diversity agenda. No matter how often he
apologized, Summers could not remove the stain he had acquired in the
eyes of his adversaries. His apologies and concessions, meanwhile,
discouraged erstwhile supporters.

Over the past several months, Summers operated more or less
defensively, guarding his public comments, occasionally making light
of his mistakes, and hoping that ill-feeling among the faculty would
subside so that the university could get on with its business. It was
an idle wish. The angry recriminations surfaced again a few weeks ago
after Summers forced out William Kirby, the popular dean of the
faculty of arts and sciences, apparently for failure to advance the
president's goals for reforming the general education curriculum. The
arts and sciences faculty called another meeting to consider a second
vote of no confidence. At this point, members of the Harvard
Corporation, particularly Robert Rubin, a Summers supporter and his
predecessor as secretary of the treasury, began to canvass faculty
members about the depth of their opposition. This, to Summers, must
have appeared an obvious sign that he had lost the support of the
Corporation. Given the capitulation of the university's governing
body, he had little choice but to resign or to be fired.

There are some, both on and off the campus, who will now look to the
Harvard Corporation as a source of level-headed guidance for the
institution. The Corporation, established by the original charter of
the college, is a seven-member governing board consisting of five
self-appointed "fellows" plus the president and treasurer of the
institution. Yet those who look to this secretive body for leadership
are likely to be disappointed, for it is plain that the members of the
Corporation greased the skids for Summers's fall, taking their cues
from disgruntled members of the arts and sciences faculty and failing
to consult with students or with deans and faculty members in the
various professional schools.

One explanation for its unhelpful role in this fiasco is that the
Corporation itself seems fully committed to the diversity regime that
drove Summers from office. There are two liberal Democrats on the
panel, Robert Rubin and Robert Reischauer, president of the Urban
Institute in Washington, both of whom are policy wonks in the Summers
mold. There appears to be a "feminist" seat on the board, currently
occupied by Nannerl Keohane, formerly president of Wellesley and later
of Duke, who replaced Hanna Holborn Gray, retired president of the
University of Chicago.

It also appears that there is a "black" seat on the Corporation, which
was occupied until late last year by Conrad K. Harper, a New York
lawyer, who resigned in protest against statements Summers had made
about women and minorities. He was replaced recently by Patricia King,
Georgetown University law professor and wife of the left-wing author
Roger Wilkins. King is a feminist activist who in 1991 testified
against confirmation of Clarence Thomas to the Supreme Court. More
recently she was one of the signers of a petition at Georgetown
calling on Congress "to repeal the disgraceful Solomon amendment"
(which requires universities to permit military recruiters on campus
or lose federal funding) and reaffirming the faculty's opposition to
military recruiting on campus. King, who takes her post in the spring,
seems an unlikely ally for any president in the Summers mold.

The membership of the Corporation, in other words, runs the gamut of
political opinion from A to B, from liberal Democrat to left-wing
Democrat, and seeks to represent the same groups as are active on the
arts and sciences faculty. It stands to reason that they would be
willing to force out their president.

Nevertheless, important positive elements emerged from the Harvard
crisis. Summers was ousted through an arrangement between the
Corporation and the arts and sciences faculty, but he maintained
strong support from the deans of the professional schools, including
David Ellwood of the Kennedy School, Elena Kagan of the law school,
and Jay Light of the business school. Many alumni and important donors
to the university could not understand why a president with Summers's
credentials should be driven out on the basis of the charges made by
his faculty adversaries.

Harvard's students, moreover, in a poll conducted by the Harvard
Crimson, supported Summers by a ratio of 3 to 1. Many noted that they
liked Summers, saw him frequently on the campus, and felt that he was
an effective leader for the institution. The Crimson itself
editorialized in favor of Summers, opposed his ouster, and said that
the university was the loser by his departure. It should be noted that
the most comprehensive and reliable reporting on this entire episode
came not from the Boston Globe or the New York Times, but from the
part-time student editors of the Crimson. The younger generation may
not buy into the diversity mythology as their professors do.

Indeed, perhaps today's students, along with others who believe in
liberal education, can take heart from the words of the late historian
Richard Hofstadter. Speaking at commencement exercises at Columbia
University in 1968 shortly after student radicals shut down the
institution, he said, "A university is not a service station. Neither
is it a political society, nor a meeting place for political
societies. With all its limitations and failures, and they are
invariably many, it is the best and most benign side of our society
insofar as that society aims to cherish the human mind." He went on to
say that the university is "a center of free inquiry and criticism-a
thing not to be sacrificed for anything else." We have gone a long way
toward sacrificing it, but out of the wreckage of this sad affair we
may begin to see a way back.

James Piereson is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute in New York.

? Copyright 2005, News Corporation, Weekly Standard, All Rights Reserved.

-=snip=-

http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/011/910qpiiz.asp?pg=1


-- 
Bob Bernstein

A person of great honour in Ireland (who was pleased to
stoop so low as to look into my mind) used to tell me that
my mind was like a conjured spirit, that would do mischief
if I did not give it employment.
                                        Jonathan Swift

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sat Feb 25 19:26:46 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sat Feb 25 19:26:40 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Michael who?
In-Reply-To: <4400C45B.2050106@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
References: <4400C45B.2050106@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
Message-ID: <200602251926.47043.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Bob Bernstein:

| Translation: "Hey everybody! Look here! I've got someone to talk TO
| ME about what's in a classified report! Look at me!!! Look at me!!!
| Oh, by the way, did I mention? THE REPORT WAS CLASSIFIED!!!
| WOOPEEE!!!!"

well, now, i agree with you as to releasing classified stuff just 
because you got access to some classified stuff. on the other hand, 
from a story of my very own, published in november 1988:

The afternoon of March 7, two divers visited what was known as "Target 
67." (Neither the number nor its location -- 400 yards northeast of the 
Hetzel Shoals buoy, about 15 miles northeast of Cape Canaveral -- 
appears in official lists of sonar contacts made during the search, and 
for reasons not easily discerned, these data remain classified.) Lewis 
Brinn, the boat's first mate, and a diver named Terry Bailey saw it as 
another routine, low-priority dive. Maybe they'd get lucky and find 
large pieces of the Tracking and Data Relay satellite, which NASA 
seemed eager to recover.
-- 
dep

A hundred mad dogs of heresy have worried man from the beginning;
but it was always the dog that died.
		-- G. K. Chesterton
From prather.js at verizon.net  Sat Feb 25 19:34:43 2006
From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather)
Date: Sat Feb 25 19:35:40 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Michael who?
In-Reply-To: <200602251926.47043.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <0IV90096RQY1D16A@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:26:46 -0500, dep wrote:

>The afternoon of March 7, two divers visited what was known as "Target 
>67." (Neither the number nor its location -- 400 yards northeast of the 
>Hetzel Shoals buoy, about 15 miles northeast of Cape Canaveral -- 
>appears in official lists of sonar contacts made during the search, and 
>for reasons not easily discerned, these data remain classified.) Lewis 
>Brinn, the boat's first mate, and a diver named Terry Bailey saw it as 
>another routine, low-priority dive. Maybe they'd get lucky and find 
>large pieces of the Tracking and Data Relay satellite, which NASA 
>seemed eager to recover.

???? SO????

What are you implying?  What are you disclosing?  

Careful, Dennis, you're acting like a journalist...

Jerry

--
"We find by fatal experience that Congress consists of too many
members to keep secrets."  B. Franklin


From zoidberg at legomenon.org  Sat Feb 25 19:41:03 2006
From: zoidberg at legomenon.org (Bob Bernstein)
Date: Sat Feb 25 19:46:40 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Michael who?
In-Reply-To: <200602251926.47043.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
References: <4400C45B.2050106@bernstein.providence.ri.us>
	<200602251926.47043.dep@drippingwithirony.com>
Message-ID: <49650.70.172.219.12.1140914463.squirrel@legomenon.org>


On Sat, February 25, 2006 7:26 pm, dep said:

> well, now, i agree with you as to releasing classified stuff just
> because you got access to some classified stuff. on the other hand,
> from a story of my very own, published in november 1988:

C'mon now, you're not one to pussyfoot around; what are you saying? In
plain fly-over country English!


-- 
Bob Bernstein

How is gravity to clothe itself if jest goes about in dark veils?

                                   -- Robert Schumann

From dep at drippingwithirony.com  Sat Feb 25 19:53:59 2006
From: dep at drippingwithirony.com (dep)
Date: Sat Feb 25 19:53:40 2006
Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Michael who?
In-Reply-To: <0IV90096RQY1D16A@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0IV90096RQY1D16A@vms048.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <200602251953.59621.dep@drippingwithirony.com>

quoth Jerry Prather:
| On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:26:46 -0500, dep wrote:
| >The afternoon of March 7, two divers visited what was known as
| > "Target 67." (Neither the number nor its location -- 400 yards
| > northeast of the Hetzel Shoals buoy, about 15 miles northeast of
| > Cape Canaveral -- appears in official lists of sonar contacts made
| > during the search, and for reasons not easily discerned, these data
| > remain classified.) Lewis Brinn, the boat's first mate, and a diver
| > named T