From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com Mon Aug 1 00:21:19 2005 From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse) Date: Mon Aug 1 00:21:45 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Is it me... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46d72e0005073121215b08fba5@mail.gmail.com> On 7/31/05, Bob Bernstein wrote: > ...or do others think the astronauts up there are just toast waiting to > happen? I hope that doesn't happen. I'm hoping re-entry comes off without a hitch. > > Is there any way they can get back to the ISS and crawl aboard? > > My sense of the thermodynamics of reentry is that any deformation of > sufficienty small radius in the leading surfaces will be enough to burn > up the whole thing. It's not the "size" of a crack but the "crackness" > of the crack, i.e. the sharpness of its edges, so to speak.. > > -- > Bob Bernstein > How old is Discovery? How old are/was all of the shuttles? Googling wasn't much help. Anyway, weren't a good chunk of them built late 70s/early 80s? How much has technology/building materials advanced since then? Lots and tons. I say take the current lot, scrap them down into raw material and contract out Burt Rutan's company. Anyway, what Brainiac's idea was it to design a rocket with tiny wings and expect it to fly/glide? The wings aren't nearly large enough for the rocket body. That's my two cents, Daniel Lee Kruse From mriddle at oasis.novia.net Mon Aug 1 07:50:13 2005 From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle) Date: Mon Aug 1 07:51:30 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Is it me... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200508011150.j71BoENh016594@oasis.novia.net> On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 23:43:21 -0400 (EDT), Bob Bernstein wrote: >...or do others think the astronauts up there are just toast waiting to >happen? >Is there any way they can get back to the ISS and crawl aboard? >My sense of the thermodynamics of reentry is that any deformation of >sufficienty small radius in the leading surfaces will be enough to burn >up the whole thing. It's not the "size" of a crack but the "crackness" >of the crack, i.e. the sharpness of its edges, so to speak.. We don't have a good baseline--we never really looked before. Having said that, I'd be happier about the "we can land with this" if it weren't coming from the same bureaucrats who said "we have the foam fixed." From dep at linuxandmain.com Mon Aug 1 08:03:30 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Mon Aug 1 07:54:27 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Is it me... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200508010803.30808.dep@linuxandmain.com> quoth Bob Bernstein: | ...or do others think the astronauts up there are just toast waiting | to happen? i'm sure others do, but i'm not among 'em and here's why: the columbia disaster was a real freak. there had been all kinds of tile strikes before and all kinds of tile *loss* at launch. what happened with columbia was a strike in just the right place. first time in 113 flights. very possibly could fly an *unmodified* system 1,000 times more without it happening again. there's no way, really, to quantify the likelihood. | Is there any way they can get back to the ISS and crawl aboard? they're attached to the iss. they'll be crawling back aboard following the spacewalk today. | My sense of the thermodynamics of reentry is that any deformation of | sufficienty small radius in the leading surfaces will be enough to | burn up the whole thing. It's not the "size" of a crack but the | "crackness" of the crack, i.e. the sharpness of its edges, so to | speak.. not necessarily. while it has been argued that a 0.02 to 0.03 crack in the leading edge carbon is enough to cause a problem -- not necessarily enough to lead to loss of vehicle and crew -- that is pretty much a guess. there's nothing very new in any of this. the tiles are a crappy "solution" to the problem; three decades of materials science has certainly by now come up with something better (which isn't to say that better didn't exist at the time the tiles were chosen). we've lost one to the solids; we've lost one to the tiles; all that remains is to lose one to the main engines (see: http://www.linuxandmain.com/features/stsfolo.html ). but at bottom there is this: of our various endeavors, spaceflight is a pretty hazardous one. so is flight test. and it is not possible to make things absolutely safe; indeed, the argument can be made that you reach a point not just of diminishing returns but of negative returns -- you start fiddling with so much stuff that you make it less safe. and life is not safe. three people in ann arbor, michigan, got killed while riding in a 1929 duesenberg over the weekend. sad, tragic, certainly. but does that speak to anything beyond the facts of that particular case? is there cause for action? (i mean in the real, not the legal, sense.) they might burn up on re-entry, but they probably won't. whether they do or not, though, won't tell us anything about spaceflight or the amount of money spent trying to do penance for a serious screwup with columbia. (people thought there might be damage and even arranged for a military satellite to take a look, but some bozo in houston canceled it; whether knowing might have done some good we cannot tell, but we do tend to rise to emergencies. and the flight was pointless anyway -- they weren't doing anything that needed or even very badly wanted to get done.) -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From mriddle at oasis.novia.net Mon Aug 1 08:04:49 2005 From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle) Date: Mon Aug 1 08:06:03 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Is it me... In-Reply-To: <200508010803.30808.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: <200508011204.j71C4oWw023010@oasis.novia.net> On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 08:03:30 -0400, dep wrote: >three people in ann arbor, michigan, got killed >while riding in a 1929 duesenberg over the weekend. Were they able to save the duesenberg? ;-) From prather.js at verizon.net Mon Aug 1 19:17:31 2005 From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather) Date: Mon Aug 1 19:18:08 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: FW: Editor Generals Message-ID: <0IKK005SXGP7Y1N1@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> A meaningful quote: ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== From: Hamp Stevens [mailto:jhstevens@bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 3:53 PM To: donblalock; Don Blalock; Bev Latvala; Austin Finch Subject: Editor Generals "Why, it appears that we appointed all of our worst generals to command the armies and we appointed all of our best generals to edit the newspapers. I mean, I found by reading a newspaper that these editor generals saw all of the defects plainly from the start but didn't tell me until it was too late. I'm willing to yield my place to these best generals and I'll do my best for the cause by editing a newspaper." -- Robert E. Lee ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== Jerry -- Porcupines are peaceful creatures but God still saw fit to give them quills. -Unknown From Sweeks1951 at cs.com Mon Aug 1 20:55:03 2005 From: Sweeks1951 at cs.com (Sweeks1951@cs.com) Date: Mon Aug 1 20:56:15 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Is it me... Message-ID: <20.4a03a456.30201e67@cs.com> In a message dated 8/1/2005 4:55:50 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dep@linuxandmain.com writes: > the argument can be made that you reach > a point not just of diminishing returns but of negative returns -- you > start fiddling with so much stuff that you make it less safe. Yep ... In air conditioning systems for Data Centers we design there are levels of "uptime" you try to achieve by building in various levels and degrees of redundancy. This can quickly lead to added complexity to make redundant systems work automatically when needed and the added complexity eventually increases the chances that there are more single points of failure ... and then ... well, you hit a wall. You've spent a ton of extra money and made the system more prone to failure. From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Mon Aug 1 22:52:36 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Mon Aug 1 22:53:16 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Same Lame Plame Dame Blame Game Message-ID: Rush read the first few paragraphs of this today, which probably accounts for the page being 'not found' for most of the afternoon. From the inner sanctum of the liberal media intelligencia, for what *that*'s worth: http://www.abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/story?id=989240 -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From operagost at operagost.com Mon Aug 1 23:35:52 2005 From: operagost at operagost.com (Stephen Eickhoff) Date: Mon Aug 1 23:37:27 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Re: os2-right-stuff-l Digest, Vol 17, Issue 38 In-Reply-To: <200507280134.j6S1Y2kt015775@carme.jtan.com> References: <200507280134.j6S1Y2kt015775@carme.jtan.com> Message-ID: <42EEEA18.2020206@operagost.com> os2-right-stuff-l-request@jtan.com wrote: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:48:20 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Jerry Prather" > Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: FW: Audacity > To: "Jim Blalock" , "JackyJHorsman@aol.com" > , "Penn, William L." , > "donblalock@adelphia.net" , > "os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com" > Message-ID: <0IKA0069SUWLQZLG@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== > > Subject: Audacity > > > > A MESSAGE FROM AN APPALLED OBSERVER: > > > > Today I went to visit the new World War II Memorial in > Washington, DC. I > > > got an unexpected history lesson. Because I'm a baby boomer, I > was one > of > > the youngest in the crowd. Most were the age of my parents, > veterans of > > "the greatest war," with their families. It was a beautiful day, > and > people > > were smiling and happy to be there. Hundreds of us milled around > the > > memorial, reading the inspiring words of Eisenhower and Truman > that are > > engraved there. On the Pacific side of the memorial, a group of > us > gathered > > to read the words President Roosevelt used to announce the > attack on > Pearl > > Harbor: > > > > "Yesterday, December 7, 1941-- a date which will live in > infamy--the > United > > States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked." > > > > One elderly woman read the words aloud: " With confidence in our > armed > > forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will > gain > the > > inevitable triumph." > > > > But as she read, she was suddenly turned angry. "Wait a minute," > she > said, > > "they left out the end of the quote. They left out the most > important > part. > > Roosevelt ended the message with "so help us God.'" > > > > > > Her husband said, "You are probably right. We're not supposed to > say > things > > like that now." > > > > "I know I'm right," she insisted. "I remember the speech." The > two > looked > > dismayed, shook their heads sadly and walked away. > > > > Listening to their conversation, I thought to myself, "Well, it > has been > > > over 50 years. She's probably forgotten." But she had not > forgotten. She > > > was right. Snopes.com lists the entire original speech, and "so help us God" doesn't appear because the entire paragraph in which is appears is NOT on the monument! -- ---------------------------------- Stephen Eickhoff www.operagost.com "No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead he puts it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light." Luke 11:33 ---------------------------------- From mriddle at papillion.ne.us Tue Aug 2 12:38:45 2005 From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Tue Aug 2 12:39:45 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: urgent and confidential Message-ID: <20050802163826.YGDE12912.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@enigmaster> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== >From: SENATLESLY >Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2005 08:40:13 -0700 >X-Mailer: Netscape Webmail >Subject: urgent and confidential >X-Accept-Language: es >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Aug 2005 15:41:17.0199 (UTC) >FILETIME=[9F27E9F0:01C59778] >To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Hello and good day, I am Lesly Senat, a citizen of United States of America and a staff of the United Nations (UN). I know that this mail will be of great surprise to you. I got your e-mail address from my search for a partner who will work with us. Please, do not see this mail as one of those stories from some Africans of which I have received such too. But please I want you to treat this proposal with utmost confidentiality since I will not want any other person to know about. In due time we shall meet face to face. In recent time, there have been conflicts all over the world especially in the Middle East, which has been of top concern to the UN. I happen to be one of the officials assigned to Iraq. I also played a great part in seeing that Afghanistan is been rebuilt and that casualties, especially women and children are well taken care of. During this period, my partners and I were able to secure some amount of money amounting to Thirty Million Five Hundred Thousand United State Dollars ($30.5M), which was moved to Europe. Moving this fund was easy because of the connections my partners had. Now that things have settled, we want to move the money out of the deposit company where it is deposited with the aid of the recent Tsunami disaster. It will be documented as donation to Tsunami charity organization which will be registered in your name. However we have agreed to donate 10% to Tsunami Relief Fund managed by United Nations . We are contacting you to work with us because we are civil servants and cannot do it alone. The presence and participation of a neutral person is needed to achieve this transaction hence my contacting you. Note that all the relevant documents will be in place for this transaction to be hitch free. For your participation, you will be getting 20% of the total sum. This transaction will take not more than fourteen (14) banking/working days to be finalized from the day of commencement. Treat with top secrecy, as we will not want a blackmail or media scandal. You are the only person I contacted for this transaction and will hope to get your reply ASAP for further correspondence via my Private email ID (lsenat@freesurf.ch). Yours faithfully, Lesly Senat ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From sjkleinsr at cox.net Tue Aug 2 14:13:42 2005 From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.) Date: Tue Aug 2 14:16:01 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: urgent and confidential Message-ID: <20050802181401.XKGT23463.lakermmtao08.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Congratulations Mike, yer gonna be rich. PS: can I "borrow" $100?? > > From: "Mike Riddle" > Date: 2005/08/02 Tue PM 12:38:45 EDT > To: " os2-right-stuff-l" > Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: urgent and confidential > > Stan Klein, Sr. Homeless, live in a truck Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black From dep at linuxandmain.com Wed Aug 3 11:17:13 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Wed Aug 3 11:08:32 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] a colleague is killed Message-ID: <200508031117.14089.dep@linuxandmain.com> the art critic charlie finch, a professional democrat strategist for many years and a liberal until september 11, 2001, holds court each sunday at the yale club, surrounded by friends ranging from federal judges to semiotics professors. through my friend pat murphy, who i met on the first day of ninth grade and who is now a u.s. government lawyer living in russia, i got invited to this latter-day incarnation of the algonquin round table that 70 years ago took place a couple blocks down the street. also in attendance when he was in town was steve vincent, the writer and reporter who was murdered yesterday in basra. i had forgotten that steve vincent was a colleague -- we both sometimes wrote for national review online. there, this morning, michael ledeen wrote this: This is to mourn the murder of the free lance journalist Steven Vincent, a victim of the Sadrist thugs (that is to say, the Iranian-sponsored terrorists) in Basra. His crime was to have written about the fanatics in Basra, who are attempting to create a mini-islamic republic in the south, to the shameful indifference of the British forces and Coalition commanders, and the so-called Left in this country and Europe. If there is ever a day of reckoning, those opinion makers who have remained silent in the face of the monstrous terrorist campaign against the Iraqi people will find it quite impossible to explain their de facto collusion with the terrorists. and kathryn jean lopez, our editor, had this: http://www.nationalreview.com/lopez/lopez200508030843.asp i think you'll find it interesting. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From mriddle at oasis.novia.net Wed Aug 3 12:56:28 2005 From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle) Date: Wed Aug 3 13:02:50 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Space Walker Message-ID: <200508031656.j73GuSTW024570@oasis.novia.net> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 18866 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.jtan.com/pipermail/os2-right-stuff-l/attachments/20050803/891d500d/attachment.gif From mriddle at papillion.ne.us Wed Aug 3 13:02:04 2005 From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Wed Aug 3 13:09:36 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Prescription Message-ID: <20050803170144.YXKE12912.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@enigmaster> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== A lady walks into a drug store and tells the pharmacist she needs some Cyanide. The pharmacist said, "Why in the world do you need cyanide? The lady then explained she needed it to poison her husband. The pharmacist's eyes got big and he said, "Lord, have mercy - I can't give you cyanide to kill your husband! That's against the law! I'll lose my license, they'll throw both of us in jail and all kinds of bad things will happen! Absolutely not, you CANNOT have any cyanide!" The lady reached into her purse and pulled out a picture of her husband in bed with the pharmacist's wife. The pharmacist looked at the picture and replied, "Well, now. You didn't tell me you had a prescription." ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From mriddle at papillion.ne.us Wed Aug 3 15:50:28 2005 From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Wed Aug 3 15:51:11 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: The fisherman's sad tale Message-ID: <20050803195029.SJZV14195.lakermmtao02.cox.net@enigmaster> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== One day many years ago, a fisherman's wife blessed her husband with twin sons. They loved the children very much, but couldn't think of what to name their children. Finally, after several days, the fisherman said, "Let's not decide on names right now. If we wait a little while, the names will simply occur to us." After several weeks had passed, the fisherman and his wife noticed a peculiar fact. When left alone, one of the boys would also turn towards the sea, while the other boy would face inland. It didn't matter which way the parents positioned the children, the same child always faced the same direction. "Let's call the boys Towards and Away," suggested the fisherman. His wife agreed, and from that point on, the boys were simply known as TOWARDS and AWAY. The years passed and the lads grew tall and strong. The day came when the aging fisherman said to his sons, "Boys, it is time that learned how to make a living from the sea." They provisioned their ship, said their goodbyes, and set sail for a three month voyage. The three months passed quickly for the fisherman's wife, yet the ship had not returned. Another three months passed, and still no ship. Three whole years passed before the grieving woman saw a lone man walking towards her house. She recognized him as her husband. "My goodness! What has happened to my darling boys?" she cried. The ragged fisherman began to tell his story: "We were just barely one whole day out to sea when Towards hooked into a great fish. Towards fought long and hard, but the fish was more than his equal. For a whole week they wrestled upon the waves without either of them letting up. Yet eventually the great fish started to win the battle, and Towards was pulled over the side of our ship. He was swallowed whole, and we never saw either of them again." "Oh dear, that must have been terrible! What a huge fish that must of been! What a horrible fish. What a horrible fish." "Yes, it was, but you should have seen the one that got Away...." ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Thu Aug 4 01:07:06 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Thu Aug 4 01:08:13 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Took the words out,,, Message-ID: ,,,of my mouth: "What Islamic voice -- we are entitled to ask over and over -- can break through to those consciences awry, to tell them they cannot accomplish the end of the western world? And that in pursuit of that goal, they are committing their own suicide, and enhancing the kind of impatience toward Islam which could doom their co-religionists by the tens of thousands, to deaths as bloody as they are bent on inflicting on others?" WFB: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ucwb/20050720/cm_ucwb/nextdaythoughtinbritain -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From prather.js at verizon.net Thu Aug 4 08:43:55 2005 From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather) Date: Thu Aug 4 08:45:53 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] A new car... Message-ID: <0IKP00HOH7D8MF1B@vms046.mailsrvcs.net> Found on a news group, and worth passing on... I just got my new Ford 2006 Mustang, and returned to the dealer the next day, complaining that I couldn't figure out how the radio worked. The salesman explained that the radio was voice activated. "Watch this! He said, Nelson!" The radio replied, "Ricky or Willie?" "Willie!" He continued....and "On the Road Again" came from the speakers. I drove away happy, and for the next few days, every time I'd say, "Beethoven!" I'd get beautiful classical music, and if I said, "Beatles!" I'd get one of their awesome songs. One day, some kids with a monster stereo ran a red light and nearly creamed my new car, but I swerved in time to avoid them. "A##HOLES!" I yelled..... The French National Anthem began to play, sung by Jane Fonda and Michael Moore, backed up by John Kerry on guitar, Al Gore on drums and Bill Clinton on sax.... I LOVE this car ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! Jerry -- Porcupines are peaceful creatures but God still saw fit to give them quills. -Unknown From dep at linuxandmain.com Thu Aug 4 20:06:51 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Thu Aug 4 19:57:46 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] well. msft code now vulnerable before release. Message-ID: <200508042006.51226.dep@linuxandmain.com> http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/holes/story/0,10801,103682,00.html?source=NLT_PM&nid=103682 First Windows Vista viruses unleashed They take advantage of a new command shell in the OS beta code News Story by Robert McMillan AUGUST 04, 2005 (IDG NEWS SERVICE) - An Austrian hacker earned the dubious distinction of writing what are thought to be the first known viruses for Microsoft Corp.'s Windows Vista operating system. Written in July, the viruses take advantage of a new command shell, code-named Monad, that's included in the Windows Vista beta code. The viruses were published last month in a virus-writing tutorial written for an underground hacker group calling itself the Ready Ranger Liberation Front, and take advantage of security vulnerabilities in the new command shell. Unlike the traditional Windows graphical user interface, which relies heavily on the mouse for navigation, command shells allow users to use powerful text-based commands, much like Windows' predecessor, DOS. The viruses were written by a hacker calling himself "Second Part To Hell" and published on July 21, just days after Monad was publicly released by Microsoft, according to Mikko Hypponen, chief research officer at Helsinki, Finland-based F-Secure Corp. Second Part To Hell is the pseudonym of an Austrian-based hacker who also goes by the name Mario, Hypponen said. Because of its sophistication, the new command shell offers new opportunities for hackers, Second Part To Hell wrote in the tutorial, a copy of which was obtained by the IDG News Service. "Monad will be like Linux's BASH (Bourne Again Shell) -- that means a great number of commands and functions," he wrote. "We will be able to make as huge and complex scripts as we do in Linux." F-Secure has named the virus family Danom (Monad in reverse). After examining the code, Hypponen said that the Danom family is disruptive but not capable of causing significant damage to Windows users. "These are proof-of-concept viruses where virus writers want to break new ground and write the first viruses for a new platform." Most security experts had not expected to see a Windows Vista virus so soon, Hypponen said. "The only surprise here is that it came so early. It's been eight days since the beta of the operating system was out." Monad was released several days prior to the Windows Vista beta. Still, Danom's release does raise questions about whether Microsoft should enable the Monad shell by default in Windows Vista. Because Monad's scripting capabilities will be used only by advanced users, Hypponen believes Microsoft should not offer the software as part of the standard Windows Vista package when it becomes commercially available in the second half of 2006. This would make the software less prevalent, and therefore less attractive to virus writers, he said. Microsoft "got burned," by including similar software, called Windows Script Host, by default in its Windows 2000 operating system, he said. "Since it was on the system, all the virus writers were exploiting it." Microsoft was unable to immediately comment. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 22:57:38 2005 From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse) Date: Thu Aug 4 22:58:38 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] well. msft code now vulnerable before release. In-Reply-To: <200508042006.51226.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200508042006.51226.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: <46d72e00050804195728ba9db0@mail.gmail.com> On 8/4/05, dep wrote: > http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/holes/story/0,10801,103682,00.html?source=NLT_PM&nid=103682 > And who is surprised by this??? Not me. This is just one of WinBloze's weaknesses. There's more to come. Daniel Lee Kruse From mriddle at papillion.ne.us Fri Aug 5 12:43:47 2005 From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Fri Aug 5 12:45:56 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: FW: U S SENATOR UNHURT IN AIRPLANE CRASH Message-ID: <20050805164348.BTBT1531.eastrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== U.S. Senator Unhurt in Air Crash The Associated Press reports that New York junior Senator, Hillary Clinton, narrowly escaped injury in the aircraft that she was piloting when she was forced to make an emergency landing in Southern New Jersey because of bad weather. National Transportation Safety Board officials have issued a preliminary determination that pilot error contributed to the accident, and that the senator was flying a single engine aircraft in IFR [instrument flight rating] conditions while only having obtained a VFR (visual flight rating) rating. The absence of a post-crash fire was likely due to insufficient fuel on board. No one on the ground was injured. Photographs taken at the scene show the extent of damage to Senator Clinton's aircraft. She was very lucky..... (Embedded image moved to file: pic23655.jpg) ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== -- Mike Riddle Political Liaison Nebraska Shooting Sports Association http://www.nebssa.org "Views expressed are those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Nebraska Shooting Sports Association unless explicitly stated." -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 79390 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.jtan.com/pipermail/os2-right-stuff-l/attachments/20050805/024679d0/attachment-0001.jpg From prather.js at verizon.net Sat Aug 6 19:32:44 2005 From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather) Date: Sat Aug 6 19:33:31 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Another trip... Message-ID: <0IKT00GYRQQL2F92@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> Hi gang, Tomorrow I'm driving to Charlotte/Matthews and on Monday my father (age: 94) and I leave for Berlin. Therefore I will be out of easy contact until the first week of September. If you really feel the necessity of contacting me :-) you might reach me at: jprather0260@marcopolo.cruisemail.net Although the satellite internet connections are rather expensive, I'll check in every couple of days. Cheers, all, Jerry -- Porcupines are peaceful creatures but God still saw fit to give them quills. -Unknown From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Mon Aug 8 02:30:55 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Mon Aug 8 02:33:08 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] "Science"? Theology! Message-ID: -=snip=- The Wall Street Journal The Theology of Global Warming By JAMES SCHLESINGER August 8, 2005; Page A10 Almost unnoticed, the theology of global warming has in recent weeks suffered a number of setbacks. In referring to the theology of global warming, one is not focusing on evidence of the earth's warming in recent decades, particularly in the Arctic, but rather on the widespread insistence that such warming is primarily a consequence of man's activities -- and that, if only we collectively had the will, we could alter our behavior and stop the warming of the planet. It was Michael Crichton who pointed out in his Commonwealth Club lecture some years ago that environmentalism had become the religion of Western elites. Indeed it has. Most notably, the burning of fossil fuels (a concomitant of economic growth and rising living standards) is the secular counterpart of man's Original Sin. If only we would repent and sin no more, mankind's actions could end the threat of further global warming. By implication, the cost, which is never fully examined, is bearable. So far the evidence is not convincing. It is notable that 13 of the 15 older members of the European Union have failed to achieve their quotas under the Kyoto accord -- despite the relatively slow growth of the European economies. The drumbeat on global warming was intended to reach a crescendo during the run-up to the summit at Gleneagles. Prime Minister Blair has been a leader in the global warming crusade. (Whether his stance reflects simple conviction or the need to propitiate his party's Left after Iraq is unknown.) In the event, for believers, Gleneagles turned out to be a major disappointment. On the eve of the summit, the Economic Committee of the House of Lords released a report sharply at variance with the prevailing European orthodoxy. Some key points were reported in the Guardian, a London newspaper not hostile to that orthodoxy: * The science of climate change leaves "considerable uncertainty" about the future. * There are concerns about the objectivity of the international panel of scientists that has led research into climate change. * The Kyoto agreement to limit carbon emissions will make little difference and is likely to fail. * The U.K.'s energy and climate policy contains "dubious assumptions" about renewable energy and energy efficiency. Most notably, the Committee itself concluded that there are concerns about the objectivity of the IPCC [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] process and about the IPCC's crucial emissions scenario exercise. Their lordships' conclusions were probably not welcomed at No. 10. Also, on the eve of the summit, the Royal Society issued a press release, supposedly on behalf of the national academies of science (these eve-of-the-summit announcements are not entirely coincidental). It was headlined, "Clear science demands prompt action on climate change" and included this statement: "The current U.S. policy on climate change is misguided. The Bush Administration has consistently refused to accept the advice of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences." A sharp riposte from the president of the National Academy of Sciences followed. Space does not permit full discussion of the rebuke. A few key phrases, however, are revealing: "Your statement is quite misleading. . . . By appending your own phrase, 'by reducing emissions of greenhouse gases' to an actual quote from our report, you have considerably changed our report's meaning and intent. . . . As you must appreciate, having your own misinterpretation of U.S. Academy work widely quoted in our press has caused considerable confusion both at my academy and in our government." Though the issue of global warming and, indeed, the summit itself were overshadowed by the acts of terrorism in London, the final communiqu from Gleneagles was closer to the position of the House of Lords (and the position of the Bush administration) than it was to the Royal Society. President Chirac had the gall (no pun) to suggest that the Europeans had brought President Bush around to their point of view. Closer to the truth was the comment of Philip Clapp of the National Environmental Trust, who called the agreement "utterly meaningless -- the weakest statement on climate change ever made by the G8." An additional setback occurred three weeks after the Gleneagles Summit, when the U.S. entered into the "Asia-Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate" with Australia, China, India, Japan and South Korea. The focus will be on technology to cope with concerns about global climate as well as pollution. It responds to President Bush's earlier call for a "post-Kyoto era." Greenpeace immediately denounced the agreement stating, "the pact sounds like a dirty coal deal." The issue of climate change urgently needs to be brought down from the level of theology to what we actually know. It is, of course, quite likely that the greenhouse effect has to some extent contributed to global warming -- but we simply do not know to what extent. The insistence that global warming is primarily the consequence of human activity leaves scant room for variation in solar intensity or cyclical phenomena generally. Over the ages, climate has varied. Generally speaking, the Northern Hemisphere has been warming since the end of the Little Ice Age in the 17th century. Most of the global warming observed in the 20th century occurred between 1900 and 1940, when the release of greenhouse gasses was far less than later in the century. Between 1940 and 1975, temperatures fell -- and scientists feared a lengthy period of global cooling. The reported rise in temperatures in recent decades has come rather suddenly -- probably too suddenly given the relatively slow rise of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. We must always bear in mind that the earth's atmosphere remains a highly complex thermodynamic machine. Given its complexities, we need to be modest in asserting what we know. Knowledge is more than speculation. Much has been made of the assertion, repeated regularly in the media, that "the science is settled," based upon a supposed "scientific consensus." Yet, some years ago in the "Oregon Petition" between 17,000 and 18,000 signatories, almost all scientists, made manifest that the science was not settled, declaring: "There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gasses is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate." Several additional observations are in order. First, the "consensus" is ostensibly based upon the several Assessment Reports of the IPCC. One must bear in mind that the summary reports are political documents put together by government policy makers, who, to put it mildly, treat rather cavalierly the expressed uncertainties and caveats in the underlying scientific reports. Moreover, the IPCC was created to support a specific political goal. It is directed to support the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change. In turn, the Convention calls for an effective international response to deal with "the common concern of all mankind" -- in short, to reduce the emissions of greenhouse gases. Statements by the leaders of the IPCC have been uninhibitedly political. Second, science is not a matter of consensus, as the histories of Galileo, Copernicus, Pasteur, Einstein and others will attest. Science depends not on speculation but on conclusions verified through experiment. Verification is more than computer simulations -- whose conclusions mirror the assumptions built in the model. Irrespective of the repeated assertions regarding a "scientific consensus," there is neither a consensus nor is consensus science. Mr. Schlesinger, the first secretary of energy, launched the Department of Energy's Carbon Dioxide Effects and Assessment Program shortly after the creation of that department in 1977. URL for this article: http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112346586472807229,00.html -=snip=- -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From spmaiorca at cox.net Mon Aug 8 12:13:25 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net) Date: Mon Aug 8 12:14:07 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fake mailer deomons Message-ID: <20050808161322.CIRU19627.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Hi, I've been geting spammed by this paranoid moron and I am wondering how to set up a fake bounce so this dip will stop e-mailing me. -S.P. Maiorca From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Mon Aug 8 13:25:53 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Mon Aug 8 13:27:09 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] fake mailer deomons In-Reply-To: <20050808161322.CIRU19627.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> References: <20050808161322.CIRU19627.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Aug 2005 spmaiorca@cox.net wrote: > I've been geting spammed by this paranoid moron and I am wondering how > to set up a fake bounce so this dip will stop e-mailing me. Take the easy way out and simply set up a filter so his mail is automatically deleted without you ever seeing it. , -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From sjkleinsr at cox.net Mon Aug 8 20:35:09 2005 From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.) Date: Mon Aug 8 20:36:17 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: The Colors.....] Message-ID: <20050809003514.RJDV20730.eastrmmtao04.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> > > > Take a moment and open up the site....click on the color wheels and > > enjoy........ > >Click here: http://www.spiritisup.com/colors1.swf > > Stan Klein, Sr. Homeless, live in a truck Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black From dep at linuxandmain.com Mon Aug 8 21:15:03 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Mon Aug 8 21:08:33 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] the most laughably inept internet swindle yet Message-ID: <200508082115.03648.dep@linuxandmain.com> received this just now: Dear Valued Customer, This is to notify you that our account verification department needed some of the informations you used in opening the account because are giving out 4% interest to all our valued customers of which you are among them. We so much apprecaite your patronage with our Bank and we promise to provide a more satisfactory services to all our customer. Please gently complete the form below and send it to our account verification department via this email onlineaccountsverification@thebank0famerica.com. The account verification department will send you a mail as soon as they receive your completed form. [eoq] btw, a little whois check provided this: Registration Service Provided By: Microsoft Contact: personal_address@css.one.microsoft.com Visit: http://support.msn.com/contactus.aspx?pk=PersonalAddress Domain name: thebank0famerica.com Registrant Contact: Angela Paula Angela Paula (onlineaccountsverification@thebank0famerica.com) +1.3239121943 Fax: none 23 north ver road los angeles, CA 90005 US Administrative Contact: Angela Paula Angela Paula (onlineaccountsverification@thebank0famerica.com) +1.3239121943 Fax: none 23 north ver road los angeles, CA 90005 US Technical Contact: NOC MSN NOC MSN (MSN-PA-TECH@msn.com) +1.4258828080 Fax: none One Microsoft Way Redmond, WA 98052 US -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us Tue Aug 9 11:58:58 2005 From: mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Tue Aug 9 11:59:56 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Midair: F-15D vs. A-4N Message-ID: <20050809155859.FFX23463.lakermmtao08.cox.net@enigmaster> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== Read the article before you look at the picture. A simulated dogfight training took place between two F-15D's and four A-4N Skyhawks over the skies of the Negev. The F-15D (#957, nicknamed 'Markia Shchakim', 5 killmarks) was used for the conversion of a new pilot in the squadron. Here is the description of the event as described in "Pressure suit": At some point I collided with one of the Skyhawks, at first I didn't realize it. I felt a big strike, and I thought we passed through the jet stream of one of the other aircraft. Before I could react, I saw the big fire ball created by the explosion of the Skyhawk. The radio started to deliver calls saying that the Skyhawk pilot has ejected, and I understood that the fire ball was the Skyhawk, that exploded, and the pilot was ejected automatically. There was a tremendous fuel stream going out of the wing, and I understood it was badly damaged. The aircraft flew without control in a strange spiral. I re-connected the electric control to the control surfaces, and slowly gained control of the aircraft until I was straight and level again. It was clear to me that I had to eject. When I gained control I said : "Hey, wait, don't eject yet!". No warning light was on and the navigation computer worked as usual; (I just needed a warning light in my panel to indicate that I missed a wing...)" The instructor ordered me to eject. The wing is a fuel tank, and the fuel indicator showed 0.000 so I assumed that the jet stream sucked all the fuel out of the other tanks. However, I remembered that the valves operate only in one direction, so that I might have enough fuel to get to the nearest airfield and land. I worked like a machine, wasn't scared and didn't worry. All I knew was as long as the sucker flies, I'm gonna stay inside. I started to decrease the airspeed, but at that point one wing was not enough. So I went into a spin down and to the right. A second before I decided to eject, I pushed the throttle and lit the afterburner. I gained speed and thus got control of the aircraft again. Next thing I did was lower the arresting hook. A few seconds later I touched the runway at 260 knots, about twice the recommended speed, and called the tower to erect the emergency recovery net. The hook was torn away from the fuselage because of the high speed, but I managed to stop 10 meters before the net. I turned back to shake the hand of my instructor, who urged me to eject, and then I saw it for the first time - no wing !!! The IAF (Israeli Air Force) contacted McDonnell Douglas and asked for information about possibility to land an F-15 with one wing. MD replied that this is aerodynamically impossible, as confirmed by computer simulations... Then they received the photo.... After two months the same F-15 got a new wing and returned to action. Special thanks to Tsahi Ben Ami. This is what "Flight international" wrote about the incident: "The most outstanding Eagle save was by a pilot from a foreign air force. During air combat training his two seater F-15 was involved in a mid air collision with an A-4 Skyhawk. The A-4 crashed, and the Eagle lost it's right wing from about 2 ft. outboard. After some confusion between the instructor who said eject, and the student who outranked his instructor and said no, the F-15 was landed at it's desert base. Touching down at 290 knots, the hook was dropped for an approach and engagement. This slowed the F-15 to 100 knots, when the hook weak link sheared, and the aircraft was then braked conventionally. It is said that the student was later demoted for disobeying his instructor, then promoted for saving the aircraft. McDonnell Douglas attributes the saving of this aircraft to the amount of lift generated by the engine intake/body and "a hell of a good pilot". ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 31434 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.jtan.com/pipermail/os2-right-stuff-l/attachments/20050809/b8927a8b/attachment-0001.jpg From operagost at operagost.com Tue Aug 9 22:28:44 2005 From: operagost at operagost.com (Stephen Eickhoff) Date: Tue Aug 9 22:29:48 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Midair: F-15D vs. A-4N In-Reply-To: <200508091559.j79FxxT5010893@carme.jtan.com> References: <200508091559.j79FxxT5010893@carme.jtan.com> Message-ID: <42F9665C.8010102@operagost.com> The guy may be an incredible pilot, but he sure can't write. I had to read several paragraphs more than once to determine whether "the aircraft" meant "my aircraft" and whether he was talking to his instructor or himself. I still don't know what to make of the superfluous ellipses, parentheses, and orphaned quote marks. Incredible story, however. -- ---------------------------------- Stephen Eickhoff www.operagost.com "No one lights a lamp and puts it in a place where it will be hidden, or under a bowl. Instead he puts it on its stand, so that those who come in may see the light." Luke 11:33 ---------------------------------- From drepouille at hotmail.com Wed Aug 10 07:28:33 2005 From: drepouille at hotmail.com (Dana Repouille) Date: Wed Aug 10 07:30:20 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Begin bug fixed Message-ID: Dennis, Microsoft finally fixed that bug you complained about... Update for Windows XP (KB900930) Typical download size: 556 KB Install this update to address multiple Outlook Express issues in Windows XP. This update addresses an issue in which messages are improperly handled if the subject line contains the word "begin" and a display issue concerning watched threads in newsgroups. This update also addresses two issues in which Outlook Express stops responding. After you install this update, you may have to restart your computer. From sjkleinsr at cox.net Wed Aug 10 14:07:37 2005 From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.) Date: Wed Aug 10 14:10:09 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Finkelstein and Jesus] Message-ID: <20050810180900.TIRJ12912.eastrmmtao01.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Subject: Fw: Finkelstein and Jesus Jesus was wandering around Jerusalem when He decided that He really needed a new robe. After looking around for a while, He saw a sign for Finkelstein, the Tailor. So, He went in and made the necessary arrangements to have Finkelstein prepare a new robe for Him. A few days later, when the robe was finished, Jesus tried it on and it was a perfect fit ! He asked how much He owed. Finkelstein brushed him off: "No, no, no, for the Son of God ? There's no charge ! However, may I ask for a small favor ? Whenever you give a sermon, perhaps you could just mention that your nice new robe was made by Finkelstein, the Tailor ? " Jesus readily agreed and as promised, extolled the virtues of His Finkelstein robe whenever He spoke to the masses. A few months later, while Jesus was again walking through Jerusalem, He happened to walk past Finkelstein's shop and noted a huge line of people waiting for Finkelstein's robes. He pushed his way through the crowd to speak to him and as soon as Finkelstein spotted Him he said: "Jesus, Jesus, look what you've done for my business ! Would you consider a partnership ? " "Certainly," replied Jesus. "Jesus & Finkelstein it is." " Oh, no, no," said Finkelstein. "Finkelstein & Jesus. After all, I am the craftsman." The two of them debated this for some time. Their discussion was long and spirited, but ultimately fruitful and they finally came up with a mutually acceptable compromise. A few days later, the new sign went up over Finkelstein's shop. Can you guess what it read ?? Are you sure you want to know ? Here it comes... Don't say you weren't warned...... SCROLL DOWN Lord & Taylor Stan Klein, Sr. Homeless, live in a truck Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Thu Aug 11 22:28:59 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Thu Aug 11 22:30:37 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Which wall this time? Message-ID: Savage is all over this tonight, working himself into yet another fit of apoplexy: http://apnews.myway.com//article/20050812/D8BTV7180.html Am I right in thinking that what was in play here in not passing this data on to the FBI was something other than the "Chinese wall" between CIA and FBI? I -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com Thu Aug 11 23:18:19 2005 From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse) Date: Thu Aug 11 23:19:48 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Which wall this time? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46d72e0005081120181ff0efda@mail.gmail.com> Man, I wish I knew what time Savage was on in Sioux Falls. I had found him at one time months ago and now am unable to find him. I may need to buy a good AM antennae (CCrane). My portable boom box isn't that good at reception. At one time I had found Jerry Doyle but am unable to find him, too. ugh. Daniel Lee Kruse On 8/11/05, Bob Bernstein wrote: > Savage is all over this tonight, working himself into yet another fit of > apoplexy: > > http://apnews.myway.com//article/20050812/D8BTV7180.html > > Am I right in thinking that what was in play here in not passing this > data on to the FBI was something other than the "Chinese wall" between > CIA and FBI? > > I > > -- > Bob Bernstein > > That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. > _______________________________________________ > os2-right-stuff-l mailing list > os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com > http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l > From dep at linuxandmain.com Fri Aug 12 00:46:28 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Aug 12 00:35:49 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Which wall this time? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200508120046.28467.dep@linuxandmain.com> quoth Bob Bernstein: | Am I right in thinking that what was in play here in not passing this | data on to the FBI was something other than the "Chinese wall" | between CIA and FBI? i don't think so. that pit in lower manhattan is the jamie gorelick monument to what happens when liberal political correctness meets a law school graduate. or, as john podhoretz put it this evening: THE 9/11 COMMISSION IN MORTAL DANGER [John Podhoretz] It behaved disgracefully and in a nakedly partisan fashion, with former officials of the Clinton administration attempting to use the platform to damage the president's reelection chances. Then, after months of ludicrous conduct, out of nowhere came the brilliantly conceived and written report that set a new standard of eloquence and coherence for government documents, became a major bestseller and redeemed the commission's reputation. Well, that didn't last long. In a story filed at 7:10 PM, the Associated Press is now confirming all the particulars of what will now forever be called the Able Danger disaster. The 9/11 Commission staff did hear about intelligence-gathering efforts that hit pay dirt on the whereabouts of Mohammed Atta -- in 1999 -- and deliberately chose to omit word of those efforts. And why? Because to do so might upset the timeline the Commission had established on Atta. And why is that significant? Because the Mohammed Atta timeline established by the Commission pointedly insisted Atta did not meet with an Iraqi intelligence agent in Prague. And why is that significant? Because debunking the Atta-Iraq connection was of vital importance to Democrats, who had become focused almost obsessively on the preposterous notion that there was no relation whatever between Al Qaeda and Iraq -- that Al Qaeda and Iraq might even have been enemies. I was very skeptical of this Able Danger stuff about Atta, thought it was just sme way Rep. Curt Weldon was trying to sell a book. No longer. This is clearly becoming the biggest story of the summer -- the fact that, as Andy McCarthy alluded to, the "intelligence wall" set up by 9/11 Commissioner Jamie Gorelick when she was in the Justice Department did, in fact, cause the linchpin of the 9/11 attacks to evade capture by American law enforcement. So was the staff a) protecting the Atta timeline or b) Jamie Gorelick or c) the Clinton administration or d) itself, because it got hold of the information relatively late and the staff was lazy? More important, what will co-chairmen Tom (pound his fist on the table) Kean and Lee (look sorrowful) Hamilton do and say in the next 36 hours about this calamity? http://corner.nationalreview.com/05_08_07_corner-archive.asp#072781 -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Fri Aug 12 01:11:47 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Aug 12 01:12:33 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Which wall this time? In-Reply-To: <200508120046.28467.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200508120046.28467.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 12 Aug 2005, dep wrote: > i don't think so. that pit in lower manhattan is the jamie gorelick > monument to what happens when liberal political correctness meets a law > school graduate. I was afraid of that. > or, as john podhoretz put it this evening: Podhoretz in The Corner? Cool. How long has he been there? > And why is that significant? Because the Mohammed Atta timeline > established by the Commission pointedly insisted Atta did not meet with > an Iraqi intelligence agent in Prague. Bingo. -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Fri Aug 12 01:16:19 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Aug 12 01:17:36 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Which wall this time? In-Reply-To: <46d72e0005081120181ff0efda@mail.gmail.com> References: <46d72e0005081120181ff0efda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Daniel Kruse wrote: > Man, I wish I knew what time Savage was on in Sioux Falls. I had > found him at one time months ago and now am unable to find him. I may > need to buy a good AM antennae (CCrane). I only bother with AM -- which I really like -- when I'm in my car. But then the Sox games -- which I also really like -- usually supercede Savage in his 7-10pm time slot in Providence. Why don't more AM stations use the internet? -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From mriddle at papillion.ne.us Fri Aug 12 13:21:40 2005 From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Fri Aug 12 13:24:13 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Way Too Many Astronauts! Message-ID: <20050812172141.BSWJ6267.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster> dep: any (re)commentary on this piece by one of the "Rocket Boys?" ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== August 10, 2005 COMMENTARY Way Too Many Astronauts By HOMER HICKAM August 10, 2005; Page A10 The test flight of the space shuttle Discovery accomplished several major goals, including a safe landing. Unfortunately, it is still not a reliable vehicle and never will be. You simply don't place a fragile bird at the base of a big, quaking nightmare of rocket engines and a massive, debris-shedding fuel tank and get anything but an engineering debacle. As that great American philosopher Kenny Rogers once said, "You've got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em." That's not just smart poker. That's smart engineering, too. When your design stinks, Engineering 101 says admit your mistakes and go back to the drawing board. I would like all top NASA managers to read the following words very carefully: The space shuttle is a Rube Goldberg contraption that is never going to be reliable no matter how much money, time, and engineering careers you throw at it. Thank you for your attention. This is not the fault of the present generation of NASA engineers. Most of the ones I know have wanted to retire the shuttle for a very long time and build a reliable spaceship worthy of our country. But any time these engineers have suggested this idea over the past decade, they've had their heads served up on a platter and told to get behind the shuttle. They've even been branded as having a special "culture" that is dangerous and (dare we say it?) risky. This is, of course, a lot of hooey. There may be a failed culture inside NASA but it does not include its engineers. Maybe it includes the people who agreed to build the International Space Station with a vehicle that is notoriously unreliable. Any engineer would have been happy to run out a simple statistical analysis that would have predicted a problem. I confess I love engineers. I believe they are the true heroes of this country. They do the heavy lifting that keeps us technologically afloat, but they are underappreciated, especially at NASA. It's the astronauts who are the darlings in our space agency, and I think they carry far too much clout. Of course, I love the astronauts, too. They're brave and they're smart and some of them are even my friends. Some are even engineers. But there are too many of them (around 100, an awful lot for a program that has flown but once in the past two years) and they are mostly acolytes of the space shuttle. If the shuttles were retired, most astronauts would be very much out on a bureaucratic limb, their training obsolete, their chances of getting into space again, or for the first time, much reduced. Bear that in mind the next time you hear an astronaut support the shuttle even though the U.S. is presently fourth in the ability to put humans reliably into space, behind Russia, China, and Burt Rutan. So let's put the shuttles on the shelf right away and give engineers the gift of designing and building new ships to carry humans into space. These are already on the drawing boards and I believe NASA Administrator Mike Griffin (an engineer) is itching to make them a reality. Mr. Hickam, a retired NASA engineer, is the author, most recently, of "The Ambassador's Son" (St. Martin's Press, 2005). ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From dep at linuxandmain.com Fri Aug 12 19:08:56 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Aug 12 18:57:54 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Way Too Many Astronauts! In-Reply-To: <20050812172141.BSWJ6267.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster> References: <20050812172141.BSWJ6267.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster> Message-ID: <200508121908.56246.dep@linuxandmain.com> quoth Mike Riddle: | dep: any (re)commentary on this piece by one of the "Rocket Boys?" i don't know anybody who disagrees with any of the piece, except maybe the attraction to engineers and astronauts. also, except for the affection for engineers and astronauts and the name of the current nasa administrator, it says nothing that i didn't publish in the miami herald more than 15 years ago. so if anything, homer hickam is a little late to the party. everybody's already packing up to go home. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From dep at linuxandmain.com Fri Aug 12 19:16:00 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Aug 12 19:05:10 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] a question Message-ID: <200508121916.00645.dep@linuxandmain.com> anybody know the whereabouts of stewart? he's been quiet for a long time. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From dep at linuxandmain.com Sat Aug 13 14:19:29 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Sat Aug 13 14:08:27 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] one of these . . . Message-ID: <200508131419.29785.dep@linuxandmain.com> . . . could ruin your day: Earth punctured by tiny cosmic missiles By Robert Matthews, Science Correspondent FORGET dangers from giant meteors: Earth is facing another threat from outer space. Scientists have come to the conclusion that two mysterious explosions in the 1990s were caused by bizarre cosmic missiles. The two objects were picked up by earthquake detectors as they tore through Earth at up to 900,000 mph. According to scientists, the most plausible explanation is that they were "strangelets", clumps of matter that have so far defied detection but whose existence was posited 20 years ago. Formed in the Big Bang and inside extremely dense stars, strangelets are thought to be made from quarks - the subatomic particles found inside protons and neutrons. Unlike ordinary matter, however, they also contain "strange quarks", particles normally only seen in high-energy accelerators. Strangelets - sometimes also called strange-quark nuggets - are predicted to have many unusual properties, including a density about ten million million times greater than lead. Just a single pollen-size fragment is believed to weigh several tons. They are thought to be extremely stable, travelling through the galaxy at speeds of about a million miles per hour. Until now, all attempts to detect them have failed. A team of American scientists believes, however, that it may have found the first hard evidence for the existence of strangelets, after scouring earthquake records for signs of their impact with Earth. The team, from the Southern Methodist University in Texas, analysed more than a million earthquake reports, looking for the tell-tale signal of strangelets hitting Earth. While their very high speed gives strangelets a huge amount of energy their tiny size suggests that any effects might be extremely localised, and there is unlikely to be a blast big enough to have widespread effects on the surface. The scientists looked for events producing two sharp signals, one as it entered Earth, the other as it emerged again. They found two such events, both in 1993. The first was on the morning of October 22. Seismometers in Turkey and Bolivia recorded a violent event in Antarctica that packed the punch of several thousand tons of TNT. The disturbance then ripped through Earth on a route that ended with it exiting through the floor of the Indian Ocean off Sri Lanka just 26 seconds later - implying a speed of 900,000 mph. The second event took place on November 24, when sensors in Australia and Bolivia picked up an explosion starting in the Pacific south of the Pitcairn Islands and travelling through Earth to appear in Antarctica 19 seconds later. According to the scientists, both events are consistent with an impact with strangelets at cosmic speeds. In a report about to be submitted to the Seismological Society of America, the team of geologists and physicists concludes: "The only explanation for such events of which we are aware is passage through the earth of ton-sized strange-quark nuggets." Professor Eugene Herrin, a member of the team, said that two strangelets just one-tenth the breadth of a hair would account for the observations. "These things are extremely dense and travel at 40 times the speed of sound straight through the Earth - they'd hardly slow down as they went through." The good news is that, despite their force, the impact of strangelets on an inhabited area would, probably, be less violent than that of a meteor. Prof Herrin said: "It's very hard to determine what the effect would be. There would probably be a tiny crater but it would be virtually impossible to find anything." Scientists say that the discovery of strangelets would be a significant breakthrough, solving several long-standing mysteries. These include the nature of "dark matter", which, astronomers say, makes up more than 90 per cent of our galaxy. With their high density and stability, strangelets may account for much of this invisible matter. Prof Frank Close, a particle physicist at Oxford University, said that confirmation of the events was crucial. "The first step is to see if one can find more examples and eliminate all other interpretations," he said. "If you're looking for very exotic and rare events, you need to be able to tell if it's the real thing or just an artefact." According to Prof Herrin, the two events agree with predictions for strangelet impacts, which are expected to occur about once a year. He added, however, that finding more would be difficult, as seismic databases now automatically remove all signals not linked to earthquakes. He said: "To find more events we need to get at the data before that happens." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fnews%2F2002%2F05%2F12%2Fwnugg12.xml -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Sat Aug 13 15:10:43 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Sat Aug 13 15:11:18 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] one of these . . . In-Reply-To: <200508131419.29785.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200508131419.29785.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 13 Aug 2005, dep wrote: > . . . could ruin your day: Strangelets? I knew many strangelets during the Sixties when I never strayed far from the Central-Harvard Squares axis of Cambridge, MA. Some days, I felt like I might even be one myself. -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us Sat Aug 13 16:53:43 2005 From: rs at bernstein.providence.ri.us (Bob Bernstein) Date: Sat Aug 13 16:54:14 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Working toaster! Message-ID: <20050813205343.GA6018@trollboy.legomenon.org> FYI && Woo-hoo: http://www.embeddedarm.com/news/netbsd_toaster.htm -- Bob Bernstein ...we say that an area of space is free of matter; we call it empty, if there is nothing present except a gravitational field. However, this is not found in reality, because even far out in the universe there is starlight, and that *is* matter. E. Schrodinger (1952) From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com Sat Aug 13 22:00:42 2005 From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse) Date: Sat Aug 13 22:01:35 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Working toaster! In-Reply-To: <20050813205343.GA6018@trollboy.legomenon.org> References: <20050813205343.GA6018@trollboy.legomenon.org> Message-ID: <46d72e00050813190047fb7617@mail.gmail.com> Okay, there are just some things that don't need to be computerized, and it is my opinion a toaster is one of them. Just think if Winbloze was running it. Oh, wait, the toast would be char coaled, catch fire, and burn the house down. Daniel Lee Kruse On 8/13/05, Bob Bernstein wrote: > FYI && Woo-hoo: > > http://www.embeddedarm.com/news/netbsd_toaster.htm > > > -- > Bob Bernstein > From spmaiorca at cox.net Sun Aug 14 03:51:19 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca) Date: Sun Aug 14 04:52:46 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Working toaster! In-Reply-To: <46d72e00050813190047fb7617@mail.gmail.com> References: <20050813205343.GA6018@trollboy.legomenon.org> <46d72e00050813190047fb7617@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200508140151.19854.spmaiorca@cox.net> I thought a windoze toaster would be popping up every other second... -Patrick On Saturday 13 August 2005 20:00, Daniel Kruse wrote: > Okay, there are just some things that don't need to be computerized, > and it is my opinion a toaster is one of them. Just think if Winbloze > was running it. Oh, wait, the toast would be char coaled, catch fire, > and burn the house down. > Daniel Lee Kruse > > On 8/13/05, Bob Bernstein wrote: > > FYI && Woo-hoo: > > > > http://www.embeddedarm.com/news/netbsd_toaster.htm > > > > > > -- > > Bob Bernstein > > _______________________________________________ > os2-right-stuff-l mailing list > os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com > http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l From dep at linuxandmain.com Sun Aug 14 07:55:17 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Sun Aug 14 07:46:08 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] steyn on able danger Message-ID: <200508140755.17109.dep@linuxandmain.com> http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn14.html Atta way to blow 9/11 panel's credibility August 14, 2005 BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST If you want to know everything wrong with the 9/11 Commission in a single sound bite, consider this from Al Felzenberg, its official spokesman, speaking Wednesday: ''There was no way that Atta could have been in the United States at that time, which is why the staff didn't give this tremendous weight when they were writing the report. This information was not meshing with the other information that we had.'' In fairness to Felzenberg, he was having a bad week, and a hard time staying on top of the commission's ever-shifting version of events. It emerged that the U.S. military had fingered Mohammed Atta -- the guy who plowed Flight 11 into the first World Trade Center tower -- well over a year before before 9/11. Or as the Associated Press puts it: "A classified military intelligence unit called 'Able Danger' identified Atta and three other hijackers in 1999 as potential members of a terrorist cell in New York City." At first, the commission denied that it knew anything about "Able Danger": "The Sept. 11 Commission did not learn of any U.S. government knowledge prior to 9/11 of surveillance of Mohammed Atta or of his cell," insisted Lee Hamilton, the Democratic co-chair. "Had we learned of it, obviously, it would've been a major focus of our investigation." But within 48 hours this version was non-operative. As the AP subsequently reported: "The Sept. 11 Commission knew military intelligence officials had identified lead hijacker Mohamed Atta as a member of al-Qaida who might be part of U.S.-based terror cell more than a year before the terror attacks but decided not to include that in its final report, a spokesman acknowledged Thursday." So, far from being a "major focus" that they just happened to miss -- coulda happened to anyone -- it turns out they knew about it but "decided not to include" it. How'd that happen? Well, as Felzenberg says so disarmingly, "this information was not meshing with the other information.'' As a glimpse into the mindset of the commission, that's astonishing. Sept. 11 happened, in part, because the various federal bureaucracies involved were unable to process information that didn't "mesh" with conventional wisdom. Now we find that the official commission intended to identify those problems and ensure they don't recur is, in fact, guilty of the very same fatal flaw. The new information didn't "mesh" with the old information, so they disregarded it. But, hey, let's not have a philosophical discussion, let's keep it practical: There was "no way" that Atta could have been in the United States except when the official INS record says he was? No INS paper trail, "no way" he could have got in? Here's one way just for a start. Forget the southern border, insofar as there is such a thing. Fact: On America's northern border, no record is kept of individual visitors to the United States. All that happens is that a photo scanner snaps your rear license plate. The scanner is said to be state-of-the-art, which is to say, as one Customs & Border official told me, it's "officially" 75 percent accurate. On the one occasion my own license plate was queried, it turned out the scanner had misread it. So, just for a start, without any particular difficulty, a friend of Mohammed Atta could have rented a car for him in Montreal and driven him down to New York -- and there would be never be any record to connect him to the vehicle anywhere in the United States or Canada. Would al-Qaida types have such contacts in Montreal? Absolutely. The city's a hotbed of Islamist cells and sympathizers. Fact: The only Islamist terrorist attack prevented by the U.S. government in the period before 9/11 was the attempt to blow up LAX by Ahmed Ressam, a Montrealer caught on the Washington/British Columbia frontier by an alert official who happened to notice he seemed to be a little sweaty. A different guard, a cooler Islamist, and it might just have been yet another routine unrecorded border crossing. So, when the 9/11 Commission starts saying that there's "no way" something can happen when it happens every single day of the week, you start to wonder what exactly is the point of an official investigation so locked in to pre-set conclusions. For example, they seemed oddly determined to fix June 3, 2000, as the official date of Atta's first landing on American soil -- even though there were several alleged sightings of him before that date, including a bizarre story that he'd trained at Maxwell/Gunter Air Force Base in Montgomery, Ala. Atta was a very mobile guy in the years before 9/11, shuttling between Germany, Spain, Afghanistan, the Czech Republic, the Netherlands, the Philippines with effortless ease. I've no hard evidence of where he was in, say, April 2000. The period between late 1999 and May 2000 is, in many ways, a big blur. He might have been in Germany, he might have been in Florida, attempting to get a U.S. Farm Service Agency loan for the world's biggest cropduster, as reported by USDA official Johnell Bryant. But I do know it's absurd to suggest he was never in the United States until June 3, 2000, simply because that's what the INS says -- especially when U.S. military intelligence says something quite different. Sept. 11 was a total government fiasco: CIA, FBI, INS, FAA, all the hot shot acronyms failed spectacularly. But appoint an official commission and let them issue an official report and suddenly everyone says, oh, well, this is the official version of 9/11; if they say something didn't happen, it can't possibly have happened. Readers may recall that I never cared for the commission. There were too many showboating partisan hacks -- Richard ben Veniste, Bob Kerrey -- who seemed more interested in playing to the rhythms of election season. There was at least one person with an outrageous conflict of interest: Clinton Justice Department honcho Jamie Gorelick, who shouldn't have been on the commission but instead a key witness appearing in front of it. And there were far too many areas where the members appeared to be interested only in facts that supported a predetermined outcome. Maybe we need a 9/11 Commission Commission to investigate the 9/11 Commission. A body intended to reassure Americans that the lessons of that terrible day had been learned instead engaged in what at best was transparent politicking and collusion in posterior-covering and at worst was something a whole lot darker and more disturbing. The problem pre-9/11 was always political: that's to say, no matter how savvy individual operatives in various agencies may have been, the political culture of the day meant that nothing would happen except a memo would get typed up and shoveled into a filing cabinet. Together with other never fully explained episodes -- like Sandy Berger's pants-stuffing at the national archives -- the Able Danger story makes one thing plain: The problem is still political. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From gsjenkins at longview.net Sun Aug 14 06:31:18 2005 From: gsjenkins at longview.net (Stewart Jenkins) Date: Sun Aug 14 09:26:34 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] a question In-Reply-To: <200508121916.00645.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200508121916.00645.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: <200508140531.19378.gsjenkins@longview.net> On Friday 12 August 2005 06:16 pm, dep wrote: > anybody know the whereabouts of stewart? he's been quiet for a long > time. Hellloooooooo..... Just quietly reading the stuff. Not much to say. Never enough hours in the day, etc. etc. Sometimes I go a week without reading my email, then I get chance to read everything every day for a couple of weeks. Two kids in high school and one in college tends to keep me busy. Jenny moves back to school on the 22nd. Maybe stuff will slow down some then, but I doubt it. I begin Parent Taught Drivers Education for my son Monday-ish. That should be interesting. -- Stewart... They took the fourth amendment and I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it. From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Sun Aug 14 12:55:05 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Sun Aug 14 12:55:42 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] steyn on able danger In-Reply-To: <200508140755.17109.dep@linuxandmain.com> References: <200508140755.17109.dep@linuxandmain.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 14 Aug 2005, dep wrote: > http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn14.html Is it me -- am I not paying attention? -- or has this story, for the most part, gone out of public view like the tide twice a day? I mean, why are there not 120pt headlines screaming across Drudge every day as the next chapter of 'Able Danger SNAFU' unfolds? -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From dep at linuxandmain.com Sun Aug 14 20:19:56 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Sun Aug 14 20:38:55 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] the ultimate bluegrass ballad Message-ID: <200508142019.56515.dep@linuxandmain.com> today, while i was driving down to the fur peace ranch to hang out with the students and jorma and jack casady and cindy cashdollar (which is to say i am just loving life here), i heard what may be the ultimate bluegrass ballad on the radio. it is called "echo mountain" and is performed by james king, and contains these lines: 'til the day the child went missing and the dog was drenched in blood you can pretty well make up the before and after; these are the crucial lines. (in the song, a man and woman get married and they want to have a baby but for some reason they don't so they take in a dog. then there's a miracle and they have a baby and the dog loves the baby and they trust the dog with the baby; then the above two lines. predictably, daddy gets mad and shoots the dog; then they discover the baby, who is just fine; then they discover the backdoor of the cabin is open and, outside, there are two dead wolves. the dog got all bloody protecting the baby from the wolves; daddy jumped to conclusions and now he is sad because he has shed, in the words of the song, "righteous blood." and of course in the last verse it turns out that the singer is that baby, now all growed up.) just doesn't get better'n that. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Mon Aug 15 02:27:47 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Mon Aug 15 02:29:44 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Moderate Islam Message-ID: Politics of Islam Inside a Major London Mosque, Extremism Shows Tenacity Founded as Moderate Model, The Al-Manaar Center Tolerates Young Militants Shouting Down the Preacher By ANDREW HIGGINS, STEVE STECKLOW, MARC CHAMPION and CARRICK MOLLENKAMP Staff Reporters of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL August 15, 2005 LONDON -- After suicide bombers attacked a hotel, a Jewish community center and other targets in the Moroccan city of Casablanca in May 2003, killing 33 people and themselves, Idriss Boumzough, a Muslim preacher here, denounced the terrorists as murderers destined for hell. He made his remarks during Friday prayers at the al-Manaar Muslim Cultural Heritage Centre. The British government helped set up and fund the north Kensington mosque as an experiment in Islamic moderation and an antidote to the incendiary rhetoric offered at some other Muslim prayer halls in London. Prince Charles presided over its formal opening in 2001, and its leaders banned political talk that could antagonize anyone. But when Mr. Boumzough condemned the Casablanca bombings, a small group of worshippers at the back of the chandeliered prayer hall began shouting. They called the preacher an infidel and an agent of the Moroccan government, he says. The hecklers then stalked out. A few days later, the center's director, Abdulkarim Khalil, scolded Mr. Boumzough for being "too emotional," the preacher says. The mosque deplored violence but must stick to religion and avoid stirring political passions, Mr. Khalil said, according to both men. Seven months later, Mr. Boumzough quit. Today, al-Manaar's commitment to calm rather than controversy has come under a cloud. At least two of its worshippers have been arrested in connection with an investigation into a plot to bomb London's transport system on July 21. They are Ramzi Mohammed, 23 years old, who has been charged with attempted murder, and a man believed by friends to be his younger brother, Wharbi Mohammed, 22, who was charged with withholding information from police. Both men belonged to a small group of rabble-rousers at al-Manaar. It couldn't be determined if they were among those who shouted down Mr. Boumzough. Their affiliation with one of London's most popular and moderate mosques raises a prickly question: how to root out extremism when even a government-backed attempt to nurture moderation fails to identify or confront forces of militancy? In the wake of the deadly July 7 bombings in London and the abortive attacks two weeks later, Britain has begun to rethink its tolerant approach to Islamic extremism. Criticized for a lack of aggressiveness in squelching militancy, Prime Minister Tony Blair has announced plans to muzzle those who champion radical views and, if they are not British, deport them. The government last week detained 10 people for deportation. "The rules of the game are changing," Mr. Blair told a news conference. But, in a country that has prided itself on promoting free speech, the experience of al-Manaar shows how difficult it will be to expunge extremism when it sometimes mingles with the mainstream. "It is so ironic," says Nicholas Paget-Brown, an elected local council member and one of two non-Muslims on al-Manaar's 12-person board of trustees, which sets the institution's overall policy. Al-Manaar, he says, "went out of its way to...establish moderation." Mosques can't be held responsible for the acts of individual worshippers, he says, but there is "clearly some important thinking the Muslim community has to do." The decentralized nature of Islam contributes to the challenge. In England, there is no clerical hierarchy to supervise doctrine or ideology. Al-Manaar, like almost all mosques, has an open-door policy, making it difficult to police every worshipper. As many as 1,500 congregants attend Friday prayers. And as the response to Mr. Boumzough's antiterrorism sermon demonstrated, mosque officials often seem hesitant to stand up to radicals with whom they disagree. The roots of Britain's problem, says Mr. Boumzough, 34, stretch back to the 1990s, when the British capital became known as "Londonistan" and radical clerics gained what he calls a dangerous "power over the minds of many people." Instead of tackling radicalism directly, British authorities sought to foster a moderate alternative. As part of a program to revive depressed inner-city areas, the government put up $1.8 million to help fund the building of al-Manaar on an abandoned railway siding near Kensington's Golborne Road, a neighborhood with a large Muslim population adjacent to the Portobello Road tourist area. Other donors, mainly from the United Arab Emirates, contributed about $9 million. First opened for regular prayer in 2000, al-Manaar -- which means "source of light" in Arabic -- was swiftly embraced by politicians as a counter-model to London's notorious Finsbury Park mosque, which by the late 1990s had become a center of anti-Western ideology. Influential Cleric While al-Manaar cultivated close ties with officials, Finsbury Park's North London Central Mosque, about five miles away, antagonized the government, police and many of its own original worshippers as it fell under the sway of Abu Hamza al-Masri. A charismatic and belligerently dogmatic cleric from Egypt, Mr. Hamza, as he is known, was invited in by trustees in 1997 to calm tensions among different ethnic groups. Instead, he turned the Finsbury Park mosque into a personal fiefdom. He monopolized Friday-sermon slots, surrounded himself with burly bodyguards and marketed tapes of his own vituperative lectures in a mosque bookstore. Saif Sahibzada, a grocery-store owner who has attended the mosque, says he felt uneasy but didn't protest for fear of retaliation by Mr. Hamza's followers. "You cannot argue with these people," the grocer says. "If you don't like it, just walk away." Mr. Hamza, who claims to have lost his hands and left eye fighting in Afghanistan, found an eager audience among restless and often-unemployed young Muslims angered by the killing of fellow Muslims in Palestine, Bosnia, Chechnya and elsewhere. Al-Manaar's erstwhile cleric, Mr. Boumzough, who arrived in Britain from Morocco in 1994 and studied Islam while working in restaurants and then for a recycling company, says that out of curiosity he sometimes went to hear Mr. Hamza and other radicals at Finsbury Park. At one meeting, he says, he stood up to protest but immediately was shouted down. An undated video recording of one of Mr. Hamza's meetings shows the hook-handed cleric answering a question about whether the bombing of two U.S. embassies in Africa in 1998 was just, given that many of the victims weren't military personnel. "If a kafir [non-Muslim] is going into a Muslim country and he is walking by, he is like a cow. Anyone can take him. That is the Islamic rule," Mr. Hamza says. "If Muslims cannot take them, you know, and sell them in the market, then kill them. It's OK." By the end of the 1990s, Mr. Hamza's belligerent brand of Islam had spread from Finsbury Park to other parts of London, including North Kensington, where builders were then finishing work on al-Manaar, a sprawling brick complex. A group of young Muslims commandeered the basement of the neighborhood's original mosque -- a tiny prayer center squeezed into a narrow row house -- and started selling books and videos promoting jihad. After a long struggle with trustees who wanted to renovate the row house, the radicals were ousted by a police order. In 2000, some of the ousted militants moved over to the newly built mosque. Mr. Boumzough, meanwhile, started work there as a volunteer and then as a salaried preacher. Avoiding Controversy Fawwaz Zeidan, a local social worker and trustee who helped lead early fund-raising efforts, says al-Manaar aimed from the start to avoid political and religious disputes and to be as inclusive as possible. As part of an effort to reach beyond local Muslims, he says, it was decided that the prayer hall should occupy only a quarter of the premises. "We wanted to show the whole community that a mosque could also be a place to learn and to meet and have discussions," he says. In August 2002, when Mr. Hamza of Finsbury Park and other radical clerics organized a "Rally for Islam" in Trafalgar Square, David Blunkett, then home secretary, the official who oversees police, visited al-Manaar and asked attendees to help the government combat militancy. "We hold a common cause," he said. "We have to be vigorous in dealing with those who preach or practice extremism in our community." Al-Manaar at times took its search for moderation to an extreme. Its ban of "political" statements extended to those condemning terrorist attacks, including 9/11. "We try to avoid talking about individuals, about countries, about organizations because then you get into the politics of everything, and you never know the full story," Mr. Khalil, the director, explains. Local politicians supported this approach. "Politics is a can of worms," says Pat Mason, a councilor for the Golborne Ward of the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea. He says that he and others encouraged the mosque to steer clear of controversy and avoid ending up like Finsbury Park. Confronting radicals, he says, would only stir conflict. "We call them radicals because they are angry, but there are huge injustices going on," says Mr. Mason, a member of Mr. Blair's Labour Party who opposed Mr. Blair's decision to support the American invasion of Iraq. "They are angry with the British government, angry with the American government. The mosque can't engage with that." Plywood boards around a building site across from the mosque are plastered with posters denouncing the war in Iraq. Al-Manaar's wariness of disputes sometimes favored the more zealous and doctrinaire. To avoid causing offense, the complex, which includes a big reception hall, meeting rooms and a library, banned music from the premises. This was a sop to a minority that frowns on all forms of musical entertainment as un-Islamic. Among early worshippers at al-Manaar was Binyam Mohammed, an Ethiopian immigrant who lived just off Golborne Road, where a travel agency offering cut-price trips to Mecca and cafés serving Arab pastries compete with a busy liquor store. Mr. Mohammed is a former drug user who turned to Islam to kick his habit, according to a report written by his lawyer, Clive Stafford Smith. He worked at the mosque as a volunteer from October 2000 until the early summer of 2001, when he suddenly left north Kensington for Afghanistan, then ruled by the Taliban, the lawyer's report says. Arrested in 2002 at the airport in Karachi, Pakistan, he is now a prisoner at the Guantanamo Bay naval base, accused by the U.S. of involvement in various terrorist plots, including an alleged scheme to ignite a radioactive "dirty bomb" in the U.S., according to the lawyer's report. Mr. Mohammed denies any role in terrorism, his lawyer says. Before being flown to Guantanamo Bay, he spent 18 months at an interrogation center in Morocco, where, according to the lawyer, security agents slashed him with a doctor's scalpel on the chest and genitals to make him talk. The agents asked about al-Manaar and showed him pictures of worshippers from the mosque, according to the lawyer's report, which is based on prison interviews of Mr. Mohammed. Moroccan Interest Morocco's security service has long had its eye on al-Manaar because of Mohammed Guerbouzi, who has worshipped there and who Morocco says is a terrorist. In December 2003, a Moroccan court sentenced him in absentia to 20 years in prison for involvement in the Casablanca bombings. Mr. Guerbouzi, who was born in Morocco, calls the accusations "rubbish" and says he has been smeared by Morocco's security service because he denounces the kingdom's government as insufficiently Islamic. Two of Mr. Guerbouzi's brothers led the 1990s takeover of the area's original mosque in the row house, Mr. Zeidan, the social worker, says. Mr. Khalil, al-Manaar's director, says he isn't sure whether Mr. Guerbouzi worships at the large mosque. "It's a big family," he says. Shortly after the lethal July 7 bombings in London, al-Manaar's current preacher, Ahmed Dahdouh, spoke with Mr. Paget-Brown, the trustee and councilor, and raised the issue of a worshipper, apparently Mr. Guerbouzi, who he said was wanted by Morocco. The cleric, says Mr. Paget-Brown, mentioned that British authorities had refused to hand him over. Mr. Paget-Brown says both the government and the mosque need to review their approaches. "I don't think we should be harboring anyone in this country who is wanted for crimes elsewhere," he says. The British Home Office declined to comment. The al-Manaar center empowers trustees to deny entry to anyone who "acts inappropriately" after a warning, but so far, this has never happened, says Mr. Khalil, the director. "Mosques are public places. Anyone can come in," he says. Some Muslim leaders, though, are now asking if their community has been too timid in confronting radicals. "We are now in a battle of 'us' against 'them.' Neutrality is not an option," Lord Nazir Ahmed, a Muslim member of the House of Lords, wrote in a newspaper column last month that called on British Muslims to "face an uncomfortable fact that many have shied away from." When Muslims have tried to report troublemakers, though, their warnings have sometimes gone unheeded. The trustee of a mosque in south London says he tried in vain to alert police two years ago to a gang of extremists, one of whom is now under arrest in Rome as a suspect in the July 21 attempted bombings in London. Lord Ahmed says that around 2000, he wrote a series of letters to Mr. Blair and Jack Straw, then home secretary, warning them of the rise of radical Islam in Great Britain. The Home Office replied in March 2001 that al-Muhajiroun, a radical group Lord Ahmed wanted shut down, hadn't been covered by a terrorism law enacted in 2000. The law prohibited membership in 14 Irish terrorist organizations, then seen as more of a threat. Islamic groups were added for the first time in March 2001. Earlier this month, Mr. Blair proposed adding the successor groups to al-Muhajiroun, which has since disbanded. "The government should have done something much earlier to remove these people from standing outside community centers and mosques," Lord Ahmed says. Britain's intelligence services also moved too slowly, says Dame Pauline Neville-Jones, a former chairman of Britain's Joint Intelligence Committee, which includes the heads of security agencies. Dissident leaders such as Mr. Hamza were monitored as potential threats to other countries, she says. But only more recently did British authorities ask, "What's going on in our Muslim community?" 9/11 Suspect In 2001, two of Mr. Hamza's followers were involved in terrorist acts. One was Zacarias Moussaoui, a Frenchman of Moroccan descent who lived in London before moving to the U.S. to learn how to fly. Accused of involvement with the 9/11 plotters, he pleaded guilty to terror-related charges earlier this year and is awaiting sentencing in the U.S. In December 2001, Richard Reid, a British man, tried to blow up a flight from Paris to Miami with a shoe bomb. He is serving a life sentence in America. Increasingly concerned by Mr. Hamza's extremism, the British Charity Commission suspended him from preaching at the mosque in April 2002. He ignored the order. One morning before dawn in January 2003, 150 British antiterrorist police in body armor used battering rams to storm the Finsbury Park mosque. They wore special covers on their shoes to avoid upsetting Muslim sensibilities. Police arrested seven men and found a tear-gas canister, a stun gun and an undisclosed number of passports. Ousted from the mosque, Mr. Hamza preached from the road nearby. He was arrested in May 2004 after a U.S. grand jury indicted him on 11 counts related to terrorism, including aiding the kidnapping of tourists in Yemen in 1998 and facilitating jihad training. In October 2004, British prosecutors charged him with 16 counts, including inciting the murder of Jews and other non-Muslims. Locked up in Britain awaiting trial in January, he has denied any links to terrorism. Four months after police raided Finsbury Park, Mr. Boumzough used his Friday sermon at al-Manaar to condemn the May 2003 suicide attacks in Casablanca. "If I see something wrong, I have to say it," he says. "This is my responsibility as a Muslim leader in the community." He now preaches at the small mosque nearby, where radicals were removed by police in the late 1990s. He gets barely a tenth of his original salary but says he likes being able to take a "clear stand." His former boss, al-Manaar's director, Mr. Khalil, plays down the perils of not confronting young troublemakers. They usually "settle down" once they find work or get married, he says. "It's just a phase in their life that they pass through." Still Agitated Mr. Boumzough's departure from al-Manaar, though, didn't calm the radicals he left behind. Last October, during the Islamic holy month of Ramadan, the mosque invited Daud Abdullah, the deputy head of the Muslim Council of Britain, an umbrella group widely viewed as moderate, to give a talk on fasting in al-Manaar's prayer hall. The session ended in turmoil after young worshippers started screaming at Mr. Abdullah, who had just returned from Iraq after an unsuccessful attempt to secure the release of Ken Bigley, a British engineer who had been kidnapped and then beheaded. The young men, Mr. Abdullah recalls, accused him of being a "hypocrite" and traitor to Islam for trying to help a non-Muslim instead of campaigning for "brothers" held at Guantanamo Bay. "It was totally irrational rhetoric," says Mr. Abdullah, who didn't know the identities of the men who harangued him. Ramzi and Wharbi Mohammed, the two al-Manaar worshippers charged in connection with the abortive July 21 attacks, were well known for their zeal and sometimes clashed with Mr. Dahdouh, the mosque's current preacher. Mr. Dahdouh says he has been ordered by the mosque's management not to comment. Late last month, Mr. Dahdouh spoke to Friday worshippers about the need to "portray a positive image of Islam." In an oblique criticism of terrorism, he quoted religious texts, urging Muslims to "be just with every one, whether a friend or enemy." Shortly after the midday service, scores of armed police poured into two nearby subsidized-housing projects and grabbed, among others, Ramzi and Wharbi Mohammed. Three days after the arrests, the mosque's director, Mr. Khalil, issued a written statement: "We are appalled, shocked and saddened to learn that some of these suspects appear to have been living in our locality and may have been praying at the Muslim Cultural Heritage Centre." The next day, al-Manaar hosted a talk in one of its meeting rooms by a Muslim human-rights lawyer whose clients have in the past included Mr. Guerbouzi, the man wanted in Morocco, and Mr. Hamza, the jailed Finsbury Park cleric. The lawyer, Muddassar Arani, brought along a stack of leaflets that offered tips on how to deal with counterterrorism police. Among the advice: "Do not be misled by officers who state that they need you to assist them....Do not discuss any matters with them, walk away." --Glenn R. Simpson contributed to this article. URL for this article: http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB112406453357312943,00.html -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From sjkleinsr at cox.net Tue Aug 16 12:26:25 2005 From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.) Date: Tue Aug 16 12:27:48 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Life of an Italian Child]] Message-ID: <20050816162626.JOMJ1571.centrmmtao06.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> Subject: FW: Life of an Italian Child _____ Life of an Italian Child 01. You have at least one relative who wore a black dress every day for an entire year after a funeral. 02. You spent your entire childhood thinking what you ate for lunch was pronounced "sangwich." 03. Your family dog understood Italian. 04. Every Sunday afternoon of your childhood was spent visiting your grandparents and extended family. 05. You've experienced the phenomena of 150 people fitting into 50 square feet of yard during a family cookout. 06. You were surprised to discover the FDA recommend you eat three meals a day, not seven. 07. You thought killing the pig each year and having salami, capacollo, pancetta and prosciutto hanging out to dry from your shed ceiling was absolutely normal. 08. You ate pasta for dinner at least three times a week, and every Sunday. 09. You grew up thinking no fruit or vegetable had a fixed price and that the price of everything was negotiable through haggling. 10. You were as tall as your grandmother by the age of seven. 11. You thought everyone's last name ended in a vowel. 12. You thought nylons were supposed to be worn rolled to the ankles. 13. Your mom's main hobby is cleaning. 14. You were surprised to find out that wine was actually sold in stores. 15. You thought that everyone made their own tomato sauce. 16. You never ate meat on Christmas Eve or any Friday for that matter. 17. You ate your salad after the main course. 18. You thought Catholic was the only religion in the world. 19. Your were beaten at least once with a wooden spoon or broom. Stan Klein, Sr. Homeless, live in a truck Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Wed Aug 17 18:28:36 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Wed Aug 17 18:29:56 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Poor Cindy Message-ID: "Any citizen has the right to petition the president for redress of grievance, or for that matter to insult him to his face. But the potential number of such people is very large, and you don't have the right to cut in line by having so much free time that you can set up camp near his drive." Hitchens: http://www.slate.com/id/2124500/ -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Thu Aug 18 00:11:05 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Thu Aug 18 00:12:06 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] More Poor Cindy Message-ID: "Dowd's "absolute" moral authority column demonstrates, once again, what can happen when liberals start tossing around terms they don't understand like "absolute" and "moral." It seems that the inspiration for Dowd's column was also absolute. On the rocks." Coulter: http://makeashorterlink.com/?O23A522AB -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Thu Aug 18 01:02:43 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Thu Aug 18 01:04:06 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] One reply to Poor Cindy Message-ID: "Those who lost their lives believed in the mission. To honor their memory, and because it's right, we must believe in the mission, too. "We refuse to allow Cindy Sheehan to speak for all of us. Instead, we ask you to learn the individual stories. They are glorious. Honor their memories. "Honor their service. Never dishonor them by giving in. They never did." http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/?id=110007122 -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From spmaiorca at cox.net Thu Aug 18 11:30:43 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca) Date: Thu Aug 18 12:32:57 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: FW: Audacity In-Reply-To: <0IKA0069SUWLQZLG@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> References: <0IKA0069SUWLQZLG@vms048.mailsrvcs.net> Message-ID: <200508180930.43301.spmaiorca@cox.net> They finaly got the section corect good to see some one is reading snopes http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/memorial.asp how ever the two abridged section on the memorial are "Yesterday, December 7, 1941 ? a date which will live in infamy No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people, in their righteous might, will win through to absolute victory. " Neither of which are near so "help us God" So if you want to complain complain the whole speech is not there and this line "American people, in their righteous might" is far from politically correct...what Liberal today would think of the US as righteous especially when it comes to defending ourself? -Patrick On Wednesday 27 July 2005 12:48, Jerry Prather wrote: > ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== > > Subject: Audacity > > > > A MESSAGE FROM AN APPALLED OBSERVER: > > > > Today I went to visit the new World War II Memorial in > Washington, DC. I > > > got an unexpected history lesson. Because I'm a baby boomer, I > was one > of > > the youngest in the crowd. Most were the age of my parents, > veterans of > > "the greatest war," with their families. It was a beautiful day, > and > people > > were smiling and happy to be there. Hundreds of us milled around > the > > memorial, reading the inspiring words of Eisenhower and Truman > that are > > engraved there. On the Pacific side of the memorial, a group of > us > gathered > > to read the words President Roosevelt used to announce the > attack on > Pearl > > Harbor: > > > > "Yesterday, December 7, 1941-- a date which will live in > infamy--the > United > > States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked." > > > > One elderly woman read the words aloud: " With confidence in our > armed > > forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will > gain > the > > inevitable triumph." > > > > But as she read, she was suddenly turned angry. "Wait a minute," > she > said, > > "they left out the end of the quote. They left out the most > important > part. > > Roosevelt ended the message with "so help us God.'" > > > > > > Her husband said, "You are probably right. We're not supposed to > say > things > > like that now." > > > > "I know I'm right," she insisted. "I remember the speech." The > two > looked > > dismayed, shook their heads sadly and walked away. > > > > Listening to their conversation, I thought to myself, "Well, it > has been > > > over 50 years. She's probably forgotten." But she had not > forgotten. She > > > was right. > > > > I went home and pulled out the book my book club is reading --- > "Flags > of > > Our Fathers" by James Bradley. It's all about the battle at Iwo > Jima. I > > haven't gotten too far in the book. It's tough to read because > it's a > > graphic description of the WWII battles in the Pacific. > > > > But right there it was on page 58. Roosevelt's speech to the > nation ends > in > > "so help us God." > > > > The people who edited out that part of the speech when they > engraved it > on > > the memorial could have fooled me. I was born after the war. But > they > > couldn't fool the people who were there. Roosevelt's words are > engraved > on > > their hearts. > > > > Now I ask: "WHO GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE WORDS OF > > HISTORY?????????" > > > > Send this around to your friends. People need to know before > everyone > > forgets. People today are trying to change the history of > America by > > leaving God out of it, but the truth is, God has been a part of > this > > nation, since the beginning. He still wants to be...and He > always will > be! > > > > If you agree, pass this on. If not, MAY GOD BLESS YOU > > > > > > ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== > > Jerry > -- > Porcupines are peaceful creatures but God still saw fit to give them > quills. -Unknown > > _______________________________________________ > os2-right-stuff-l mailing list > os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com > http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Thu Aug 18 14:14:15 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Thu Aug 18 14:16:50 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Where do you live? Message-ID: A revealing snapshot of the state of the Union: High-priced housing faces risks Fifty-three metropolitan areas representing 31% of the total U.S. housing market are considered extremely overvalued and confront a high risk of future price corrections, a study conducted by National City Corp. says. The study determines a market extremely overvalued if prices are 30% above where the study estimates they should be based on historic price data, area income, mortgage rates and population density. Metro areas that are extremely overvalued and vulnerable to price correction: Rank Metro area Q1 valuation 1 Santa Barbara, Calif. 69% 2 Salinas, Calif. 67% 3 Naples, Fla. 62% 4 Riverside, Calif. 60% 5 Merced, Calif. 59% 6 Stockton, Calif. 58% 7 Port St. Lucie, Fla. 58% 8 Madera, Calif. 57% 9 Napa, Calif. 57% 10 Medford, Ore. 55% 11 Sacramento, Calif. 54% 12 Modesto, Calif. 53% 13 San Diego, Calif. 53% 14 Santa Rosa, Calif. 52% 15 Chico, Calif. 52% 16 Barnstable Town, Mass. 50% 17 San Luis Obispo, Calif. 49% 18 Oxnard, Calif. 48% 19 Fresno, Calif. 48% 20 Los Angeles, Calif. 48% 21 Miami, Fla. 46% 22 West Palm Beach, Fla. 46% 23 Vallejo, Calif. 45% 24 Ocean City, N.J. 45% 25 Bend, Ore. 45% 26 Sarasota, Fla. 45% 27 Redding, Calif. 44% 28 Fort Lauderdale, Fla. 43% 29 Nassau-Suffolk, N.Y. 42% 30 Santa Ana, Calif. 41% 31 Atlantic City, N.J. 41% 32 Bakersfield, Calif. 40% 33 Oakland, Calif. 39% 34 Santa Cruz, Calif. 39% 35 Palm Bay, Fla. 38% 36 Las Vegas, Nev. 38% 37 Poughkeepsie, N.Y. 37% 38 Vero Beach, Fla. 37% 39 San Jose, Calif. 36% 40 Bellingham, Wash. 35% 41 Panama City, Fla. 35% 42 Calif.pe Coral, Fla. 35% 43 Providence, R.I. 34% 44 Reno, Nev. 33% 45 Kingston, N.Y. 32% 46 Visalia, Calif. 32% 47 Deltona, Fla. 31% 48 Boston, Mass. 31% 49 Washington D.C. 31% 50 Essex County, Mass. 30% 51 San Francisco, Calif. 30% 52 Prescott, Ariz. 30% 53 Duluth, Minn. 30% The rest of the top 229 metro areas and their first quarter valuation: 54 Portland, Ore. 29% 55 Eugene, Ore. 29% 56 Worcester, Mass. 28% 57 Bay City, Mich. 27% 58 Tampa, Fla. 27% 59 Edison, N.J. 27% 60 Bethesda, Md. 27% 61 Minneapolis, Minn. 27% 62 Grand Junction, Colo. 27% 63 Fort Walton Beach, Fla. 27% 64 Flint, Mich. 27% 65 Monroe, Mich. 26% 66 Jackson, Mich. 25% 67 Portland, Maine 25% 68 New York, N.Y. 25% 69 Asheville, N.C. 25% 70 Cambridge, Mass. 24% 71 Charlottesville, Va. 24% 72 Greeley, Colo. 24% 73 Charleston, S.C. 24% 74 Jacksonville, Fla. 24% 75 Holland, Mich. 23% 76 Newark, N.J. 23% 77 Honolulu, Hawaii 23% 78 Boulder, Colo. 23% 79 Santa Fe, N.M. 22% 80 Baltimore, Md. 22% 81 Salem, Ore. 22% 82 Virginia Beach, Va. 21% 83 Battle Creek, Mich. 21% 84 Manchester, N.H. 21% 85 Springfield, Mass. 20% 86 Seattle, Wash. 20% 87 Detroit, Mich. 20% 88 Ocala, Fla. 20% 89 Lansing, Mich. 20% 90 Pensacola, Fla. 19% 91 Chicago, Ill. 19% 92 Savannah, Ga. 19% 93 Niles, Mich. 19% 94 Orlando, Fla. 19% 95 Rockingham, N.H. 19% 96 Brunswick, Ga. 19% 97 Gainesville, Fla. 18% 98 Wilmington, N.C. 18% 99 Tallahassee, Fla. 18% 100 Tacoma, Wash. 18% 101 Ann Arbor, Mich. 18% 102 Olympia, Wash. 18% 103 Warren, Mich. 17% 104 Longview, Wash. 17% 105 Casper, Wyo. 17% 106 Racine, Wis. 17% 107 Bremerton, Wash. 17% 108 Phoenix, Ariz. 17% 109 Eau Claire, Wis. 16% 110 Corvallis, Ore. 16% 111 St. George, Utah 16% 112 Flagstaff, Ariz. 16% 113 Saginaw, Mich. 16% 114 Muskegon, Mich. 15% 115 Trenton, N.J. 15% 116 Denver, Colo. 15% 117 Mount Vernon, Wash. 15% 118 Fort Collins, Colo. 15% 119 Tucson, Ariz. 15% 120 Camden, N.J. 15% 121 Norwich, Conn. 14% 122 Lake-Kenosha, Ill.-Wis. 14% 123 Richmond, Va. 14% 124 Milwaukee, Wis. 13% 125 Anchorage, Ala. 13% 126 Grand Rapids, Mich. 13% 127 Madison, Wis. 13% 128 Michigan City, Ind. 12% 129 La Crosse, Wis. 12% 130 York, Pa. 12% 131 Farmington, N.M. 12% 132 Rockford, Ill. 12% 133 Kalamazoo, Mich. 12% 134 Canton, Ohio 11% 135 Colorado Springs, Colo. 11% 136 Gainesville, Ga. 11% 137 Burlington, Vt. 11% 138 Philadelphia, Pa. 11% 139 Lakeland, Fla. 11% 140 Waterloo, Iowa 10% 141 Wilmington, Del. 10% 142 Pittsfield, Mass. 10% 143 Lynchburg, Va. 10% 144 Dalton, Ga. 10% 145 Dubuque, Iowa 10% 146 Toledo, Ohio 10% 147 Hickory, N.C. 10% 148 Vineland, N.J. 9% 149 Janesville, Wis. 9% 150 Roanoke, Va. 9% 151 Peoria, Ill. 9% 152 St. Joseph, Mo. 9% 153 New Haven, Conn. 9% 154 Fayetteville, Ark. 9% 155 St. Louis, Mo. 9% 156 Mansfield, Ohio 8% 157 Harrisonburg, Va. 8% 158 Billings, Mont. 8% 159 Davenport, Iowa 8% 160 Albany, N.Y. 8% 161 Allentown, Pa. 7% 162 Spokane, Wash. 7% 163 Springfield, Ohio 7% 164 Kansas City, Mo.-Kan. 7% 165 Reading, Pa. 7% 166 Cleveland, Ohio 7% 167 Burlington, N.C. 7% 168 Pueblo, Colo. 7% 169 Erie, Pa. 6% 170 Yakima, Wash. 6% 171 Green Bay, Wis. 6% 172 Lancaster, Pa. 6% 173 Sheboygan, WI 6% 174 Youngstown, Ohio 6% 175 Wenatchee, Wash. 6% 176 Gary, Ind. 5% 177 Athens, Ga. 5% 178 Topeka, Kan. 5% 179 Cheyenne, Wyo. 5% 180 Durham, N.C. 5% 181 Fond du Lac,W is. 4% 182 Atlanta, Ga. 4% 183 Champaign, Ill. 4% 184 Bridgeport, Conn. 4% 185 Hartford, Conn. 4% 186 Boise City, Idaho 4% 187 Sandusky, Ohio 3% 188 Akron, Ohio 3% 189 Columbus, Ohio 3% 190 Omaha, Neb. 3% 191 Salt Lake City, Utah 3% 192 Wausau, Wis. 3% 193 Lawrence, Kan. 3% 194 Kennewick, Wash. 3% 195 New Orleans, La. 3% 196 Rochester, Minn. 2% 197 Anderson, Ind. 2% 198 Chattanooga, Tenn. 2% 199 Lima, Ohio 2% 200 Amarillo, Texas 2% 201 Spartanburg, S.C. 2% 202 Florence, S.C. 1% 203 Bloomington, Ind. 1% 204 Louisville, Ky. 1% 205 Raleigh, N.C. 1% 206 Provo, Utah 1% 207 Lexington, Ky. 1% 208 Ogden, Utah 1% 209 Winston-Salem, N.C. 1% 210 Cincinnati, Ohio 1% 211 Appleton, Wis. 1% 212 Columbia, Mo. 1% 213 Cedar Rapids, Iowa 1% 214 Houma, La. 1% 215 Lafayette, La. 0% 216 Columbia, S.C. 0% 217 Greenville, S..C 0% 218 Greensboro, N.C. 0% 219 Dayton, Ohio 0% 220 Oshkosh, Wis. 0% 221 Utica, N.Y. 0% 222 Decatur, Ill. 0% 223 Lincoln, Neb. 0% 224 Scranton, Pa. -1% 225 Pittsburgh, Pa. -1% 226 Monroe, La. -1% 227 Las Cruces, N.M. -1% 228 Knoxville, Tenn. -1% 229 Harrisburg, Pa. -1% 230 Des Moines, Iowa -1% 231 Fargo, N.D. -2% 232 Greenville, N.C. -2% 233 Sioux Falls, S.D. -2% 234 Charlotte, N.C. -2% 235 Baton Rouge, La. -2% 236 Rocky Mount, N.C. -2% 237 Sherman, Texas -3% 238 Bloomington, Ill. -3% 239 Albany, Ga. -3% 240 Kokomo, Ind. -3% 241 Nashville, Tenn. -3% 242 Owensboro, Ky. -3% 243 Albuquerque, N.M. -3% 244 Jefferson City, Mo. -3% 245 Evansville, Ind. -3% 246 Columbus, Ind. -3% 247 Lubbock, Texas -3% 248 Waco, Texas -4% 249 Augusta, Ga. -4% 250 Columbus, Ga. -4% 251 Warner Robins, Ga. -4% 252 Idaho Falls, Idaho -4% 253 Wichita, Kan. -4% 254 Iowa City, Iowa -4% 255 Bowling Green, Ky. -4% 256 Tyler, Texas -4% 257 Birmingham, Ala. -4% 258 Springfield, Ill. -4% 259 Buffalo, N.Y. -5% 260 Corpus Christi, Texas -5% 261 Macon, Ga. -5% 262 Austin, Texas -5% 263 Syracuse, N.Y. -5% 264 Fort Wayne, Ind. -6% 265 Tulsa, Okla. -6% 266 Fort Smith, Ark. -6% 267 Binghamton, .NY. -6% 268 Abilene, Texas -6% 269 Alexandria, La. -6% 270 San Angelo, Texas -6% 271 Indianapolis, Ind. -6% 272 Hattiesburg, Miss. -6% 273 Midland, Texas -6% 274 South Bend, Ind. -6% 275 Oklahoma City, Okla. -7% 276 Springfield, Mo. -7% 277 Mobile, Ala. -7% 278 Shreveport, La. -7% 279 DeCalif.tur, Ala. -7% 280 Little Rock, Ark. -8% 281 Bismarck, N.D. -8% 282 Houston, Texas -8% 283 Lafayette, Ind. -9% 284 Jackson, Miss. -9% 285 Charleston, W.V. -10% 286 Fort Worth, Texas -10% 287 Rochester, N.Y. -10% 288 Longview, Texas -10% 289 San Antonio, Texas -10% 290 Elkhart, Ind. -11% 291 Dallas, Texas -11% 292 Memphis, Tenn. -11% 293 Huntsville, Ala. -11% 294 Beaumont, Texas -12% 295 Killeen, Texas -13% 296 Odessa, Texas -14% 297 Montgomery, Ala. -15% 298 El Paso, Texas -17% 299 College Station, Texas -19% Source: National City Corp. http://makeashorterlink.com/?K2F8233AB -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Thu Aug 18 15:50:14 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Thu Aug 18 15:51:21 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Iran: Plan A, B, or C? Message-ID: "Documents include extensive pay records from August 2004 showing Iran paid the salaries of at least 11,740 members of the Badr Shi'ite militia, the armed wing of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution, the leading political party in Iraq's ruling alliance." du Borchgrave: http://makeashorterlink.com/?T29B423AB -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From m.o.davis at gte.net Thu Aug 18 22:45:18 2005 From: m.o.davis at gte.net (Davis Mark) Date: Thu Aug 18 22:46:23 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Where do you live? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B6F45FD-A244-4975-887A-644D56E46448@gte.net> On Aug 18, 2005, at 1:14 PM, Bob Bernstein wrote: > 270 San Angelo, Texas > -6% So all the housing in Texas is undervalued, eh? That's nice. I watch the local real estate channel here sometimes; you can get a decent place to live for not much money. -- Mark Davis San Angelo, TX From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com Fri Aug 19 00:36:30 2005 From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse) Date: Fri Aug 19 00:38:01 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Where do you live? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46d72e000508182136546bde82@mail.gmail.com> On 8/18/05, Bob Bernstein wrote: > 43 Providence, R.I. > 34% Hey, Bob, you're overpriced... > 140 Waterloo, Iowa > 10% Ouch. > 145 Dubuque, Iowa > 10% Again, ouch. > 159 Davenport, Iowa > 8% Again, ouch. > 213 Cedar Rapids, Iowa > 1% Well, that's not so bad. > 230 Des Moines, Iowa > -1% Um, I don't believe that figure. Wait, I'm thinking of the suburbs (Johnston, West Des Moines, etc.). > 233 Sioux Falls, S.D. > -2% Oh, wow, I didn't know that. I really haven't been looking to buy, yet, in case the contract-to-hire doesn't pan out. > 254 Iowa City, Iowa > -4% I'm shocked about that figure. I figured they'd be over, not under. Later, Daniel Lee Kruse From Sweeks1951 at cs.com Fri Aug 19 00:51:05 2005 From: Sweeks1951 at cs.com (Sweeks1951@cs.com) Date: Fri Aug 19 00:52:33 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Where do you live? Message-ID: <205.81c4a4b.3036bf39@cs.com> In a message dated 8/18/2005 11:18:06 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bob@SixtiesSurvivor.org writes: > 13 San Diego, Calif. - 53% That's about right. It is competely ridiculous what people have paid for small, poorly built shacks here. It depends where you are and what you have to sell here but the bubble has already "gently" burst. Sale prices have gone down in many areas but still go up in others. It is going flat I think followed by a gentle slide down. From mriddle at papillion.ne.us Fri Aug 19 13:48:07 2005 From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Fri Aug 19 13:49:26 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Re: Cindy Sheehan Message-ID: <20050819174807.KHOU10692.eastrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== Grieving Bush Protester Has No Exit Strategy by Scott Ott (2005-08-16) -- Cindy Sheehan, the protester whose son died fighting for freedom in Iraq, today acknowledged that she has "no exit strategy" for getting out of what some have called the "quagmire in Crawford" outside of the Texas ranch of President George Bush. "My opponent is more entrenched than I expected," said Mrs. Sheehan, whose vigil has focused national attention on the ability of the news media to focus national attention on Mrs. Sheehan. "I'm still committed to victory, but it may take longer than I thought at first." Mrs. Sheehan said she is willing to "pay any price, bear any burden" to get a second meeting with Mr. Bush. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From mriddle at papillion.ne.us Fri Aug 19 13:47:28 2005 From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Fri Aug 19 13:49:27 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Re: Cindy Sheehan Message-ID: <20050819174729.JEMA15624.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== Sheehan Gets Surprise Visit from Woodstock Artists by Scott Ott (2005-08-17) -- Just a mile from President George Bush's Texas ranch, America's favorite protest-mom, Cindy Sheehan, today got a surprise visit from Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, Country Joe McDonald and several members of Sly and the Family Stone. The impromptu Woodstock reunion was sponsored by the Democrat National Committee and Coca-Cola, after Mrs. Sheehan, whose son died defending freedom in Iraq, told a phalanx of reporters, "I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony." In related news, the grieving woman's agent said that tonight's vigil will include an appearance by Sen. John Kerry, D-MA, who will throw her son's military medals over the fence at the Bush ranch. Actress Jane Fonda was also scheduled to appear, but her cross-country convoy ground to a halt outside of Houston this afternoon when her bus ran out of Crisco. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From dep at linuxandmain.com Fri Aug 19 22:23:28 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Aug 19 22:12:09 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] this inspires confidence, doesn't it Message-ID: <200508192223.28388.dep@linuxandmain.com> http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,104080,00.html?source=NLT_PM&nid=104080 Air Force investigates data breach Personal details on more than 33,000 officers compromised News Story by Linda Rosencrance AUGUST 19, 2005 (COMPUTERWORLD) - The U.S. Air Force is notifying more than 33,000 officers that their personal data has been breached by a malicious hacker, the Air Force said today. The hacker used a legitimate user's ID and password to access personal information on the officers contained in the Assignment Management System (AMS), an online program used for assignment preferences and career management, the Air Force said. That data included career information, birth dates and Social Security numbers. Lt. Col. Michele Dewerth, a spokeswoman for the Air Force Personnel Center (AFPC) at Randolph Air Force Base in Texas, said there has been no evidence of identify theft. A systems operator at the air base discovered the breach sometime between May and June, Dewerth said. She declined to be more specific because of the ongoing investigation. "Immediately upon discovery we put more security measures in place," she said. The personnel center also notified Air Force and federal investigators that there was unusually high activity on a single user's AMS account in June, according to the statement. "We notified airmen as quickly as we could while still following criminal investigation procedures with the [Air Force's Office of Special Investigations]," said Maj. Gen. Tony Przybyslawski , AFPC commander. "Protecting airmen's personal information is something we take very seriously, and we are doing everything we can to catch and prosecute those responsible under the law." The breach involved data on half of the force's approximately 70,000 officers. It also affected fewer than 20 enlisted personnel, the Air Force said. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From rluchor at gmail.com Sat Aug 20 14:46:35 2005 From: rluchor at gmail.com (Rich) Date: Sat Aug 20 14:51:44 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Churchill and the Jihadists Message-ID: <001401c5a5b7$804c2800$0300000a@oemcomputer> Churchill At the Battle Of Omdurman an army commanded by the British General Sir Horatio Kitchener defeated the Army Of The Khalifa, The "dervishes", A battle that marked the successful end of the British efforts to re-conquer The Sudan. A famous incident of the desert Battle Of Omdurman was the charge of the 21st Lancers, possibly the last full cavalry charge. Here is what Churchill said, following the horrific battle to wrest the Sudan from the jihadists of the 19th century: How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome. Sir Winston Churchill, from The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899). From spmaiorca at cox.net Sat Aug 20 22:33:17 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net) Date: Sat Aug 20 22:34:11 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] clinton's Balkan Legacy Message-ID: <20050821023317.BETD19494.fed1rmmtao06.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Bosnians at work......remmeber we suported the Jihadist in the Balkins....Thank you Clinton and CNN http://www.cnsnews.com:80/video/2005/9509ChurchDesecration.wmv From dep at linuxandmain.com Sat Aug 20 22:52:55 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Sat Aug 20 22:47:22 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: Sen. Clinton goes to school Message-ID: <200508202252.55223.dep@linuxandmain.com> Hillary Clinton went to an elementary school in Ithaca, New York to talk about the world. After her talk she asked for questions. One little boy put up his hand, and the senator asked his name. "Kenneth." "What is your question, Kenneth?" "I have three questions: First - What happened to your health care plan? Second, why would you run for president after your husband shamed the office? "Third - What happened to all those things you took when you left the White House?" Just then the bell rings for recess. Hillary told the kids that she would continue after recess. When they resume Hillary says, "Okay where were we? Who has a question?" A different little boy puts his hand up. Hillary points to him and asks his name. "Larry." "And what is your question?" "I have five questions: First - What happened to your medical health care plan? Second, why would you run for president after your husband shamed the office? Third - What happened to all those things you took when you left the White House? "Fourth - Why did the recess bell ring 20 minutes early? "And Fifth - What happened to Kenneth?" -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From dep at linuxandmain.com Sun Aug 21 10:26:02 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Sun Aug 21 10:14:59 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] steyn on cindy Message-ID: <200508211026.02447.dep@linuxandmain.com> http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn21.html 'Peace Mom's' marriage a metaphor for Dems August 21, 2005 BY MARK STEYN SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST Cindy Sheehan's son Casey died in Sadr City last year, and that fact is supposed to put her beyond reproach. For as the New York Times' Maureen Dowd informed us: ''The moral authority of parents who bury children killed in Iraq is absolute." Really? Well, what about those other parents who've buried children killed in Iraq? There are, sadly, hundreds of them: They honor their loved ones' service to the nation, and so they don't make the news. There's one Cindy Sheehan, and she's on TV 'round the clock. Because, if you're as heavily invested as Dowd in the notion that those "killed in Iraq" are "children," then Sheehan's status as grieving matriarch is a bonanza. They're not children in Iraq; they're grown-ups who made their own decision to join the military. That seems to be difficult for the left to grasp. Ever since America's all-adult, all-volunteer army went into Iraq, the anti-war crowd have made a sustained effort to characterize them as "children." If a 13-year-old wants to have an abortion, that's her decision and her parents shouldn't get a look-in. If a 21-year-old wants to drop to the broadloom in Bill Clinton's Oval Office, she's a grown woman and free to do what she wants. But, if a 22- or 25- or 37-year-old is serving his country overseas, he's a wee "child" who isn't really old enough to know what he's doing. I get many e-mails from soldiers in Iraq, and they sound a lot more grown-up than most Ivy League professors and certainly than Maureen Dowd, who writes like she's auditioning for a minor supporting role in ''Sex And The City.'' The infantilization of the military promoted by the left is deeply insulting to America's warriors but it suits the anti-war crowd's purposes. It enables them to drone ceaselessly that "of course" they "support our troops," because they want to stop these poor confused moppets from being exploited by the Bush war machine. I resisted writing about "Mother Sheehan" (as one leftie has proposed designating her), as it seemed obvious that she was at best a little unhinged by grief and at worst mentally ill. It's one thing to mourn a son's death and even to question the cause for which he died, but quite another to roar that he was "murdered by the Bush crime family." Also: "You tell me the truth. You tell me that my son died for oil. You tell me that my son died to make your friends rich. You tell me my son died to spread the cancer of Pax Americana . . . You get America out of Iraq, you get Israel out of Palestine." And how about this? "America has been killing people on this continent since it was started. This country is not worth dying for." That was part of her warm-up act for a speech by Lynne Stewart, the "activist" lawyer convicted of conspiracy for aiding the terrorists convicted of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. You can see why Lynne's grateful to Sheehan. But why is Elizabeth Edwards sending out imploring letters headlined "Support Cindy Sheehan's Right To Be Heard"? The politics of this isn't difficult: The more Cindy Sheehan is heard the more obvious it is she's thrown her lot in with kooks most Americans would give a wide berth to. Don't take my word for it, ask her family. Casey Sheehan's grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins put out the following statement: "The Sheehan Family lost our beloved Casey in the Iraq War and we have been silently, respectfully grieving. We do not agree with the political motivations and publicity tactics of Cindy Sheehan. She now appears to be promoting her own personal agenda and notoriety at the expense of her son's good name and reputation. The rest of the Sheehan Family supports the troops, our country, and our President, silently, with prayer and respect." Ah, well, they're not immediate family, so they lack Cindy's "moral authority." But how about Casey's father, Pat Sheehan? Last Friday, in Solano County Court, Casey's father Pat Sheehan filed for divorce. As the New York Times explained Cindy's "separation," "Although she and her estranged husband are both Democrats, she said she is more liberal than he is, and now, more radicalized." Toppling Saddam and the Taliban (Mrs. Sheehan opposes U.S. intervention in Afghanistan, too), destroying al-Qaida's training camps and helping 50 million Muslims on the first steps to free societies aren't worth the death of a single soldier. But Cindy Sheehan's hatred of Bush is worth the death of her marriage. Watching her and her advanced case of Bush Derangement Syndrome on TV, I feel the way I felt about that mentally impaired Aussie concert pianist they got to play at the Oscars a few years. Yet in the wreckage of Pat and Cindy Sheehan's marriage there is surely a lesson for the Democratic Party. As Cindy says, they're both Democrats, but she's "more liberal" and "more radicalized." There are a lot of less liberal and less radicalized Dems out there: They're soft-left-ish on health care and the environment and education and so forth; many have doubts about the war, but they love their country, they have family in the military, and they don't believe in dishonoring American soldiers to make a political point. The problem for the Democratic Party is that the Cindys are now the loudest voice: Michael Moore, Howard Dean, Moveon.org, and Air America, the flailing liberal radio network distracting attention from its own financial scandals by flying down its afternoon host Randi Rhodes to do her show live from Camp Casey. The last time I heard Miss Rhodes she was urging soldiers called up for Iraq to refuse to go -- i.e., to desert. On unwatched Sunday talk shows, you can still stumble across the occasional sane, responsible Dem. But, in the absence of any serious intellectual attempt to confront their long-term decline, all the energy on the left is with the fringe. The Democratic Party is a coalition of Pat Sheehans and Cindy Sheehans, and the noisier the Cindys get the more estranged the Pats are likely to feel. Sorry about that, but, if Mrs. Sheehan can insist her son's corpse be the determining factor in American policy on Iraq, I don't see why her marriage can't be a metaphor for the state of the Democratic Party. Casey Sheehan was a 21-year old man when he enlisted in 2000. He re-enlisted for a second tour, and he died after volunteering for a rescue mission in Sadr City. Mrs. Sheehan says she wishes she'd driven him to Canada, though that's not what he would have wished, and it was his decision. His mother has now left Crawford, officially because her mother has had a stroke, but promising to return. I doubt she will. Perhaps deep down she understands she's a woman whose grief curdled into a narcissistic rage, and most Americans will not follow where she's gone -- to the wilder shores of anti-Bush, anti-war, anti-Iraq, anti-Afghanistan, anti-Israel, anti-American paranoia. Casey Sheehan's service was not the act of a child. A shame you can't say the same about his mom's new friends. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From spmaiorca at cox.net Sun Aug 21 10:53:36 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net) Date: Sun Aug 21 10:54:54 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Cartoon of the day] Message-ID: <20050821145336.BLYN17043.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> > > From: "Teresa A. Polychronis" > Date: 2005/08/20 Sat PM 11:02:33 EDT > To: "Teresa Ann Polychronis" > Subject: Cartoon of the day > > From spmaiorca at cox.net Sun Aug 21 10:54:26 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net) Date: Sun Aug 21 10:57:04 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: China hires Washington lobbyists] Message-ID: <20050821145426.HWPR16890.fed1rmmtao08.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> > > From: "Teresa A. Polychronis" > Date: 2005/08/20 Sat PM 11:55:27 EDT > To: "Orthodox Re-Forum" , > > Subject: China hires Washington lobbyists > > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-filler2005aug20%2C0%2C1408364.story?coll=orl-business-headlines > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > China hires Washington lobbyists > Michael Forsythe > Bloomberg News > > August 20, 2005 > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > The Chinese government had hired Patton Boggs LLP, the biggest Washington lobby firm, to give it advice about Congress, according to a federal disclosure. > > The Chinese embassy in Washington will pay Patton Boggs $22,000 a month, according to contract papers filed with the U.S. Justice Department. China hired Patton Boggs in July, before congressional pressure helped scuttle an $18.5 billion bid by Beijing-based CNOOC Ltd., an oil producer, to buy Unocal Corp. of El Segundo, Calif. > > Mark Cowan, Robert Horn and Timothy Chorba, a former U.S. ambassador to Singapore, will lead Patton Boggs' work with the embassy. Cowan is a former Central Intelligence Agency officer and Horn is chairman of the Republican National Lawyers Association, according to their biographies on the Patton Boggs Web site. > > The filing didn't indicate whether Patton Boggs would lobby Congress on behalf of the Chinese government. U.S. groups that work for foreign governments must register with the Justice Department as foreign agents. > > Chu Maoming, a spokesman for the Chinese embassy, was traveling Friday and not available to comment. > > Brian Hale, a spokesman for Patton Boggs, said the company had been hired to provide "counsel" for the embassy. > > Unocal agreed earlier this month to merge with Chevorn Corp. in a $17.8 billion deal. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Copyright ? 2005, Orlando Sentinel > > From spmaiorca at cox.net Sun Aug 21 10:53:59 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net) Date: Sun Aug 21 11:02:44 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Freed terrorists finding haven in Bosnia] Message-ID: <20050821145359.HRWR12158.fed1rmmtao11.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> > > From: "Teresa A. Polychronis" > Date: 2005/08/21 Sun AM 12:34:55 EDT > To: , > "Orthodox Re-Forum" , > > Subject: Freed terrorists finding haven in Bosnia > > http://www.wpherald.com/print.php?StoryID=20050819-041758-1946r > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Terror vets gather in Bosnia > > By UNITED PRESS INTERNATIONAL > August 19, 2005 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Terrorists who previously targeted the United States are now in Bosnia, Cybercast News Service said Friday. > > Convicted terrorists are moving to Bosnia after being freed and they have access there to a "one-stop shop" of jihad training camps, weapons and illegal Islamic "charities" -- all at the doorstep of Europe, terrorism experts said according to the report, which was carried by the Assyrian International News Agency. > > "[Convicted terrorist] Karim Said Atmani recently returned to Bosnia after being released early from French prison for 'good behavior,'" terrorism expert and author Evan Kohlmann told CNS. > > Atmani, a Moroccan, was linked to the "millennium bomb plot" and convicted by a French court of colluding with Osama bin Laden. He has been linked to the Armed Islamic Group (GIA), an organization responsible for airplane hijackings and subway bombings in France, CNS said. > > Also finding haven in Bosnia is Abu el Maali, who like Atmani, was a foreign national who fought in the Bosnia war. El Maali was later accused by French authorities of attempting to smuggle explosives in 1998 to an Egyptian terrorist group plotting to destroy U.S. military installations in Germany. He was also accused of leading terrorist cells in Bosnia, Pakistan and Afghanistan. > > The Al-Haramain Islamic Foundation (AHF), a charity that was later found by the U.S. Treasury to be underwriting terrorist operations including al-Qaida, shut its offices in Bosnia after the U.S. announcement but reopened under the name "Vazir." The new organization was registered as an "association for sport, culture and education," CNS said. > > Cybercast News Service has also obtained a video that terrorism analysts say depicts an active jihad training camp in Bosnia-Herzegovina, a region previously described by analysts as an ideal gateway for terror missions into Europe. > The video shows outdoor maneuvers, explosives training and training inside what appears to be a school gym. Exercises in hostage-taking are also shown. > > From spmaiorca at cox.net Sun Aug 21 10:26:51 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca) Date: Sun Aug 21 11:28:36 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Where do you live? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200508210826.51828.spmaiorca@cox.net> Wonder how bad Vegas is. -Patrick On Thursday 18 August 2005 12:14, Bob Bernstein wrote: > A revealing snapshot of the state of the Union: > > > High-priced housing faces risks > > Fifty-three metropolitan areas representing 31% of the total > U.S. housing market are considered extremely overvalued and confront a > high risk of future price corrections, a study conducted by National > City Corp. says. The study determines a market extremely overvalued if > prices are 30% above where the study estimates they should be based on > historic price data, area income, mortgage rates and population > density. > > Metro areas that are extremely overvalued and vulnerable to price > correction: Rank Metro area > Q1 valuation > > 1 Santa Barbara, Calif. > 69% > 2 Salinas, Calif. > 67% > 3 Naples, Fla. > 62% > 4 Riverside, Calif. > 60% > 5 Merced, Calif. > 59% > 6 Stockton, Calif. > 58% > 7 Port St. Lucie, Fla. > 58% > 8 Madera, Calif. > 57% > 9 Napa, Calif. > 57% > 10 Medford, Ore. > 55% > 11 Sacramento, Calif. > 54% > 12 Modesto, Calif. > 53% > 13 San Diego, Calif. > 53% > 14 Santa Rosa, Calif. > 52% > 15 Chico, Calif. > 52% > 16 Barnstable Town, Mass. > 50% > 17 San Luis Obispo, Calif. > 49% > 18 Oxnard, Calif. > 48% > 19 Fresno, Calif. > 48% > 20 Los Angeles, Calif. > 48% > 21 Miami, Fla. > 46% > 22 West Palm Beach, Fla. > 46% > 23 Vallejo, Calif. > 45% > 24 Ocean City, N.J. > 45% > 25 Bend, Ore. > 45% > 26 Sarasota, Fla. > 45% > 27 Redding, Calif. > 44% > 28 Fort Lauderdale, Fla. > 43% > 29 Nassau-Suffolk, N.Y. > 42% > 30 Santa Ana, Calif. > 41% > 31 Atlantic City, N.J. > 41% > 32 Bakersfield, Calif. > 40% > 33 Oakland, Calif. > 39% > 34 Santa Cruz, Calif. > 39% > 35 Palm Bay, Fla. > 38% > 36 Las Vegas, Nev. > 38% > 37 Poughkeepsie, N.Y. > 37% > 38 Vero Beach, Fla. > 37% > 39 San Jose, Calif. > 36% > 40 Bellingham, Wash. > 35% > 41 Panama City, Fla. > 35% > 42 Calif.pe Coral, Fla. > 35% > 43 Providence, R.I. > 34% > 44 Reno, Nev. > 33% > 45 Kingston, N.Y. > 32% > 46 Visalia, Calif. > 32% > 47 Deltona, Fla. > 31% > 48 Boston, Mass. > 31% > 49 Washington D.C. > 31% > 50 Essex County, Mass. > 30% > 51 San Francisco, Calif. > 30% > 52 Prescott, Ariz. > 30% > 53 Duluth, Minn. > 30% > The rest of the top 229 metro areas and their first quarter valuation: > 54 Portland, Ore. > 29% > 55 Eugene, Ore. > 29% > 56 Worcester, Mass. > 28% > 57 Bay City, Mich. > 27% > 58 Tampa, Fla. > 27% > 59 Edison, N.J. > 27% > 60 Bethesda, Md. > 27% > 61 Minneapolis, Minn. > 27% > 62 Grand Junction, Colo. > 27% > 63 Fort Walton Beach, Fla. > 27% > 64 Flint, Mich. > 27% > 65 Monroe, Mich. > 26% > 66 Jackson, Mich. > 25% > 67 Portland, Maine > 25% > 68 New York, N.Y. > 25% > 69 Asheville, N.C. > 25% > 70 Cambridge, Mass. > 24% > 71 Charlottesville, Va. > 24% > 72 Greeley, Colo. > 24% > 73 Charleston, S.C. > 24% > 74 Jacksonville, Fla. > 24% > 75 Holland, Mich. > 23% > 76 Newark, N.J. > 23% > 77 Honolulu, Hawaii > 23% > 78 Boulder, Colo. > 23% > 79 Santa Fe, N.M. > 22% > 80 Baltimore, Md. > 22% > 81 Salem, Ore. > 22% > 82 Virginia Beach, Va. > 21% > 83 Battle Creek, Mich. > 21% > 84 Manchester, N.H. > 21% > 85 Springfield, Mass. > 20% > 86 Seattle, Wash. > 20% > 87 Detroit, Mich. > 20% > 88 Ocala, Fla. > 20% > 89 Lansing, Mich. > 20% > 90 Pensacola, Fla. > 19% > 91 Chicago, Ill. > 19% > 92 Savannah, Ga. > 19% > 93 Niles, Mich. > 19% > 94 Orlando, Fla. > 19% > 95 Rockingham, N.H. > 19% > 96 Brunswick, Ga. > 19% > 97 Gainesville, Fla. > 18% > 98 Wilmington, N.C. > 18% > 99 Tallahassee, Fla. > 18% > 100 Tacoma, Wash. > 18% > 101 Ann Arbor, Mich. > 18% > 102 Olympia, Wash. > 18% > 103 Warren, Mich. > 17% > 104 Longview, Wash. > 17% > 105 Casper, Wyo. > 17% > 106 Racine, Wis. > 17% > 107 Bremerton, Wash. > 17% > 108 Phoenix, Ariz. > 17% > 109 Eau Claire, Wis. > 16% > 110 Corvallis, Ore. > 16% > 111 St. George, Utah > 16% > 112 Flagstaff, Ariz. > 16% > 113 Saginaw, Mich. > 16% > 114 Muskegon, Mich. > 15% > 115 Trenton, N.J. > 15% > 116 Denver, Colo. > 15% > 117 Mount Vernon, Wash. > 15% > 118 Fort Collins, Colo. > 15% > 119 Tucson, Ariz. > 15% > 120 Camden, N.J. > 15% > 121 Norwich, Conn. > 14% > 122 Lake-Kenosha, Ill.-Wis. > 14% > 123 Richmond, Va. > 14% > 124 Milwaukee, Wis. > 13% > 125 Anchorage, Ala. > 13% > 126 Grand Rapids, Mich. > 13% > 127 Madison, Wis. > 13% > 128 Michigan City, Ind. > 12% > 129 La Crosse, Wis. > 12% > 130 York, Pa. > 12% > 131 Farmington, N.M. > 12% > 132 Rockford, Ill. > 12% > 133 Kalamazoo, Mich. > 12% > 134 Canton, Ohio > 11% > 135 Colorado Springs, Colo. > 11% > 136 Gainesville, Ga. > 11% > 137 Burlington, Vt. > 11% > 138 Philadelphia, Pa. > 11% > 139 Lakeland, Fla. > 11% > 140 Waterloo, Iowa > 10% > 141 Wilmington, Del. > 10% > 142 Pittsfield, Mass. > 10% > 143 Lynchburg, Va. > 10% > 144 Dalton, Ga. > 10% > 145 Dubuque, Iowa > 10% > 146 Toledo, Ohio > 10% > 147 Hickory, N.C. > 10% > 148 Vineland, N.J. > 9% > 149 Janesville, Wis. > 9% > 150 Roanoke, Va. > 9% > 151 Peoria, Ill. > 9% > 152 St. Joseph, Mo. > 9% > 153 New Haven, Conn. > 9% > 154 Fayetteville, Ark. > 9% > 155 St. Louis, Mo. > 9% > 156 Mansfield, Ohio > 8% > 157 Harrisonburg, Va. > 8% > 158 Billings, Mont. > 8% > 159 Davenport, Iowa > 8% > 160 Albany, N.Y. > 8% > 161 Allentown, Pa. > 7% > 162 Spokane, Wash. > 7% > 163 Springfield, Ohio > 7% > 164 Kansas City, Mo.-Kan. > 7% > 165 Reading, Pa. > 7% > 166 Cleveland, Ohio > 7% > 167 Burlington, N.C. > 7% > 168 Pueblo, Colo. > 7% > 169 Erie, Pa. > 6% > 170 Yakima, Wash. > 6% > 171 Green Bay, Wis. > 6% > 172 Lancaster, Pa. > 6% > 173 Sheboygan, WI > 6% > 174 Youngstown, Ohio > 6% > 175 Wenatchee, Wash. > 6% > 176 Gary, Ind. > 5% > 177 Athens, Ga. > 5% > 178 Topeka, Kan. > 5% > 179 Cheyenne, Wyo. > 5% > 180 Durham, N.C. > 5% > 181 Fond du Lac,W is. > 4% > 182 Atlanta, Ga. > 4% > 183 Champaign, Ill. > 4% > 184 Bridgeport, Conn. > 4% > 185 Hartford, Conn. > 4% > 186 Boise City, Idaho > 4% > 187 Sandusky, Ohio > 3% > 188 Akron, Ohio > 3% > 189 Columbus, Ohio > 3% > 190 Omaha, Neb. > 3% > 191 Salt Lake City, Utah > 3% > 192 Wausau, Wis. > 3% > 193 Lawrence, Kan. > 3% > 194 Kennewick, Wash. > 3% > 195 New Orleans, La. > 3% > 196 Rochester, Minn. > 2% > 197 Anderson, Ind. > 2% > 198 Chattanooga, Tenn. > 2% > 199 Lima, Ohio > 2% > 200 Amarillo, Texas > 2% > 201 Spartanburg, S.C. > 2% > 202 Florence, S.C. > 1% > 203 Bloomington, Ind. > 1% > 204 Louisville, Ky. > 1% > 205 Raleigh, N.C. > 1% > 206 Provo, Utah > 1% > 207 Lexington, Ky. > 1% > 208 Ogden, Utah > 1% > 209 Winston-Salem, N.C. > 1% > 210 Cincinnati, Ohio > 1% > 211 Appleton, Wis. > 1% > 212 Columbia, Mo. > 1% > 213 Cedar Rapids, Iowa > 1% > 214 Houma, La. > 1% > 215 Lafayette, La. > 0% > 216 Columbia, S.C. > 0% > 217 Greenville, S..C > 0% > 218 Greensboro, N.C. > 0% > 219 Dayton, Ohio > 0% > 220 Oshkosh, Wis. > 0% > 221 Utica, N.Y. > 0% > 222 Decatur, Ill. > 0% > 223 Lincoln, Neb. > 0% > 224 Scranton, Pa. > -1% > 225 Pittsburgh, Pa. > -1% > 226 Monroe, La. > -1% > 227 Las Cruces, N.M. > -1% > 228 Knoxville, Tenn. > -1% > 229 Harrisburg, Pa. > -1% > 230 Des Moines, Iowa > -1% > 231 Fargo, N.D. > -2% > 232 Greenville, N.C. > -2% > 233 Sioux Falls, S.D. > -2% > 234 Charlotte, N.C. > -2% > 235 Baton Rouge, La. > -2% > 236 Rocky Mount, N.C. > -2% > 237 Sherman, Texas > -3% > 238 Bloomington, Ill. > -3% > 239 Albany, Ga. > -3% > 240 Kokomo, Ind. > -3% > 241 Nashville, Tenn. > -3% > 242 Owensboro, Ky. > -3% > 243 Albuquerque, N.M. > -3% > 244 Jefferson City, Mo. > -3% > 245 Evansville, Ind. > -3% > 246 Columbus, Ind. > -3% > 247 Lubbock, Texas > -3% > 248 Waco, Texas > -4% > 249 Augusta, Ga. > -4% > 250 Columbus, Ga. > -4% > 251 Warner Robins, Ga. > -4% > 252 Idaho Falls, Idaho > -4% > 253 Wichita, Kan. > -4% > 254 Iowa City, Iowa > -4% > 255 Bowling Green, Ky. > -4% > 256 Tyler, Texas > -4% > 257 Birmingham, Ala. > -4% > 258 Springfield, Ill. > -4% > 259 Buffalo, N.Y. > -5% > 260 Corpus Christi, Texas > -5% > 261 Macon, Ga. > -5% > 262 Austin, Texas > -5% > 263 Syracuse, N.Y. > -5% > 264 Fort Wayne, Ind. > -6% > 265 Tulsa, Okla. > -6% > 266 Fort Smith, Ark. > -6% > 267 Binghamton, .NY. > -6% > 268 Abilene, Texas > -6% > 269 Alexandria, La. > -6% > 270 San Angelo, Texas > -6% > 271 Indianapolis, Ind. > -6% > 272 Hattiesburg, Miss. > -6% > 273 Midland, Texas > -6% > 274 South Bend, Ind. > -6% > 275 Oklahoma City, Okla. > -7% > 276 Springfield, Mo. > -7% > 277 Mobile, Ala. > -7% > 278 Shreveport, La. > -7% > 279 DeCalif.tur, Ala. > -7% > 280 Little Rock, Ark. > -8% > 281 Bismarck, N.D. > -8% > 282 Houston, Texas > -8% > 283 Lafayette, Ind. > -9% > 284 Jackson, Miss. > -9% > 285 Charleston, W.V. > -10% > 286 Fort Worth, Texas > -10% > 287 Rochester, N.Y. > -10% > 288 Longview, Texas > -10% > 289 San Antonio, Texas > -10% > 290 Elkhart, Ind. > -11% > 291 Dallas, Texas > -11% > 292 Memphis, Tenn. > -11% > 293 Huntsville, Ala. > -11% > 294 Beaumont, Texas > -12% > 295 Killeen, Texas > -13% > 296 Odessa, Texas > -14% > 297 Montgomery, Ala. > -15% > 298 El Paso, Texas > -17% > 299 College Station, Texas > -19% > Source: National City Corp. > > > http://makeashorterlink.com/?K2F8233AB From spmaiorca at cox.net Sun Aug 21 10:33:07 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (S.P. Maiorca) Date: Sun Aug 21 11:35:54 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Cartoon of the day] In-Reply-To: <20050821145336.BLYN17043.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> References: <20050821145336.BLYN17043.fed1rmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> Message-ID: <200508210833.07634.spmaiorca@cox.net> On Sunday 21 August 2005 08:53, spmaiorca@cox.net wrote: > > From: "Teresa A. Polychronis" > > Date: 2005/08/20 Sat PM 11:02:33 EDT > > To: "Teresa Ann Polychronis" > > Subject: Cartoon of the day -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 08212005.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 88430 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.jtan.com/pipermail/os2-right-stuff-l/attachments/20050821/d6c5bfec/08212005-0001.jpg From m.o.davis at gte.net Sun Aug 21 12:52:15 2005 From: m.o.davis at gte.net (Davis Mark) Date: Sun Aug 21 12:53:33 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Where do you live? In-Reply-To: <200508210826.51828.spmaiorca@cox.net> References: <200508210826.51828.spmaiorca@cox.net> Message-ID: On Aug 21, 2005, at 9:26 AM, S.P. Maiorca wrote: > Wonder how bad Vegas is. It's number 36 on the list. -- Mark Davis San Angelo, TX From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com Mon Aug 22 00:45:32 2005 From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse) Date: Mon Aug 22 00:46:48 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Which wall this time? In-Reply-To: References: <46d72e0005081120181ff0efda@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46d72e00050821214513e5f7d1@mail.gmail.com> On 8/12/05, Bob Bernstein wrote: > On Thu, 11 Aug 2005, Daniel Kruse wrote: > > > I only bother with AM -- which I really like -- when I'm in my car. But > then the Sox games -- which I also really like -- usually supercede > Savage in his 7-10pm time slot in Providence. > > Why don't more AM stations use the internet? Bandwidth costs? Anyway, I finally found what station he is on while I was driving home from a Figure 8 race Tuesday, Aug16th in Parker, SD. 1110 AM out of Omaha. Anytime I would hit the low-lands I lost the signal in my truck. Go high and I could pick up the signal again. So to get that station will be very atmospheric sensitive. Grrrrr. This was during the 10 pm to 10:30 pm during the drive. Back when I lived in south-central Iowa, I could get it on 98.3 FM out of the Des Moines area from 7 pm to 10 pm. Daniel Lee Kruse From rluchor at gmail.com Mon Aug 22 14:47:57 2005 From: rluchor at gmail.com (Rich) Date: Mon Aug 22 14:53:22 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Incredible flight story at Mach 3.2 Message-ID: <001501c5a74a$06cace20$0300000a@oemcomputer> This is long but worth reading! This came from Jack KIng: In flight breakup of an SR-71 at Mach 3.8 Received this AM from a good friend. A little dated but a good read. Tex Bill Weaver : SR-71 BREAKUP Among professional aviators, there's a well-worn saying: Flying is simply hours of boredom punctuated by moments of stark terror. And yet, I don't recall too many periods of boredom during my 30-year career with Lockheed, most of which was spent as a test pilot. By far, the most memorable flight occurred on Jan. 25, 1966. Jim Zwayer, a Lockheed flight test reconnaissance and navigation systems specialist, and I were evaluating those systems on an SR-71 Blackbird test from Edwards AFB, Calif. We also were investigating procedures designed to reduce trim drag and improve high-Mach cruise performance. The latter involved flying with the center-of-gravity (CG) located further aft than normal, which reduced the Blackbird's longitudinal stability. We took off from Edwards at 11:20 a.m. and completed the mission's first leg without incident. After refueling from a KC-135 tanker, we turned eastbound, accelerated to a Mach 3.2-cruise speed and climbed to 78,000 ft., our initial cruise-climb altitude. Several minutes into cruise, the right engine inlet's automatic control system malfunctioned, requiring a switch to manual control. The SR-71's inlet configuration was automatically adjusted during supersonic flight to decelerate air flow in the duct, slowing it to subsonic speed before reaching the engine's face. This was accomplished by the inlet's center-body spike translating aft, and by modulating the inlet's forward bypass doors. Normally, these actions were scheduled automatically as a function of Mach number, positioning the normal shock wave (where air flow becomes subsonic) inside the inlet to ensure optimum engine performance. Without proper scheduling, disturbances inside the inlet could result in the shock wave being expelled forward--a phenomenon known as an "inlet unstart." That causes an instantaneous loss of engine thrust, explosive banging noises and violent yawing of the aircraft--like being in a train wreck. Unstarts were not uncommon at that time in the SR-71's development, but a properly functioning system would recapture the shock wave and restore normal operation. On the planned test profile, we entered a programmed 35-deg. bank turn to the right. An immediate unstart occurred on the right engine, forcing the aircraft to roll further right and start to pitch up. I jammed the control stick as far left and forward as it would go. No response. I instantly knew we were in for a wild ride. I attempted to tell Jim what was happening and to stay with the airplane until we reached a lower speed and altitude. I didn't think the chances of surviving an ejection at Mach 3.18 and 78,800 ft. were very good. However, g-forces built up so rapidly that my words came out garbled and unintelligible, as confirmed later by the cockpit voice recorder. The cumulative effects of system malfunctions, reduced longitudinal stability, increased angle-of-attack in the turn, supersonic speed, high altitude and other factors imposed forces on the airframe that exceeded flight control authority and the Stability Augmentation System's ability to restore control. Everything seemed to unfold in slow motion. I learned later the time from event onset to catastrophic departure from controlled flight was only 2-3 sec. Still trying to communicate with Jim, I blacked out, succumbing to extremely high g-forces. The SR-71 then literally disintegrated around us. From that point, I was just along for the ride. My next recollection was a hazy thought that I was having a bad dream. Maybe I'll wake up and get out of this mess, I mused. Gradually regaining consciousness, I realized this was no dream; it had really happened. That also was disturbing, because I could not have survived what had just happened. Therefore, I must be dead. Since I didn't feel bad--just a detached sense of euphoria--I decided being dead wasn't so bad after all. AS FULL AWARENESS took hold, I realized I was not dead, but had somehow separated from the airplane. I had no idea how this could have happened; I hadn't initiated an ejection. The sound of rushing air and what sounded like straps flapping in the wind confirmed I was falling, but I couldn't see anything. My pressure suit's face plate had frozen over and I was staring at a layer of ice. The pressure suit was inflated, so I knew an emergency oxygen cylinder in the seat kit attached to my parachute harness was functioning. It not only supplied breathing oxygen, but also pressurized the suit, preventing my blood from boiling at extremely high altitudes. I didn't appreciate it at the time, but the suit's pressurization had also provided physical protection from intense buffeting and g-forces. That inflated suit had become my own escape capsule. My next concern was about stability and tumbling. Air density at high altitude is insufficient to resist a body's tumbling motions, and centrifugal forces high enough to cause physical injury could develop quickly. For that reason, the SR-71's parachute system was designed to automatically deploy a small-diameter stabilizing chute shortly after ejection and seat separation. Since I had not intentionally activated the ejection system--and assuming all automatic functions depended on a proper ejection sequence--it occurred to me the stabilizing chute may not have deployed. However, I quickly determined I was falling vertically and not tumbling. The little chute must have deployed and was doing its job. Next concern: the main parachute, which was designed to open automatically at 15,000 ft. Again I had no assurance the automatic-opening function would work. I couldn't ascertain my altitude because I still couldn't see through the iced-up face plate. There was no way to know how long I had been blacked-out or how far I had fallen. I felt for the manual-activation D-ring on my chute harness, but with the suit inflated and my hands numbed by cold, I couldn't locate it. I decided I'd better open the face plate, try to estimate my height above the ground, then locate that "D" ring. Just as I reached for the face plate, I felt the reassuring sudden deceleration of main-chute deployment. I raised the frozen face plate and discovered its uplatch was broken. Using one hand to hold that plate up, I saw I was descending through a clear, winter sky with unlimited visibility. I was greatly relieved to see Jim's parachute coming down about a quarter of a mile away. I didn't think either of us could have survived the aircraft's breakup, so seeing Jim had also escaped lifted my spirits incredibly. I could also see burning wreckage on the ground a few miles from where we would land. The terrain didn't look at all inviting--a desolate, high plateau dotted with patches of snow and no signs of habitation. I tried to rotate the parachute and look in other directions. But with one hand devoted to keeping the face plate up and both hands numb from high-altitude, subfreezing temperatures, I couldn't manipulate the risers enough to turn. Before the breakup, we'd started a turn in the New Mexico-Colorado-Oklahoma-Texas border region. The SR-71 had a turning radius of about 100 mi. at that speed and altitude, so I wasn't even sure what state we were going to land in. But, because it was about 3:00 p.m., I was certain we would be spending the night out here. At about 300 ft. above the ground, I yanked the seat kit's release handle and made sure it was still tied to me by a long lanyard. Releasing the heavy kit ensured I wouldn't land with it attached to my derriere, which could break a leg or cause other injuries. I then tried to recall what survival items were in that kit, as well as techniques I had been taught in survival training. Looking down, I was startled to see a fairly large animal--perhaps an antelope--directly under me. Evidently, it was just as startled as I was because it literally took off in a cloud of dust. My first-ever parachute landing was pretty smooth. I landed on fairly soft ground, managing to avoid rocks, cacti and antelopes. My chute was still billowing in the wind, though. I struggled to collapse it with one hand, holding the still-frozen face plate up with the other. "Can I help you?" a voice said. Was I hearing things? I must be hallucinating. Then I looked up and saw a guy walking toward me, wearing a cowboy hat. A helicopter was idling a short distance behind him. If I had been at Edwards and told the search-and-rescue unit that I was going to bail out over the Rogers Dry Lake at a particular time of day, a crew couldn't have gotten to me as fast as that cowboy-pilot had. The gentleman was Albert Mitchell, Jr., owner of a huge cattle ranch in northeastern New Mexico. I had landed about 1.5 mi. from his ranch house--and from a hangar for his two-place Hughes helicopter. Amazed to see him, I replied I was having a little trouble with my chute. He walked over and collapsed the canopy, anchoring it with several rocks. He had seen Jim and me floating down and had radioed the New Mexico Highway Patrol, the Air Force and the nearest hospital. Extracting myself from the parachute harness, I discovered the source of those flapping-strap noises heard on the way down. My seat belt and shoulder harness were still draped around me, attached and latched. The lap belt had been shredded on each side of my hips, where the straps had fed through knurled adjustment rollers. The shoulder harness had shredded in a similar manner across my back. The ejection seat had never left the airplane; I had been ripped out of it by the extreme forces, seat belt and shoulder harness still fastened. I also noted that one of the two lines that supplied oxygen to my pressure suit had come loose, and the other was barely hanging on. If that second line had become detached at high altitude, the deflated pressure suit wouldn t have provided any protection. I knew an oxygen supply was critical for breathing and suit-pressurization, but didn't appreciate how much physical protection an inflated pressure suit could provide. That the suit could withstand forces sufficient to disintegrate an airplane and shred heavy nylon seat belts, yet leave me with only a few bruises and minor whiplash was impressive. I truly appreciated having my own little escape capsule. After helping me with the chute, Mitchell said he'd check on Jim. He climbed into his helicopter, flew a short distance away and returned about 10 min. later with devastating news: Jim was dead. Apparently, he had suffered a broken neck during the aircraft's disintegration and was killed instantly. Mitchell said his ranch foreman would soon arrive to watch over Jim's body until the authorities arrived. I asked to see Jim and, after verifying there was nothing more that could be done, agreed to let Mitchell fly me to the Tucumcari hospital, about 60 mi. to the south. I have vivid memories of that helicopter flight, as well. I didn't know much about rotorcraft, but I knew a lot about "red lines," and Mitchell kept the airspeed at or above red line all the way. The little helicopter vibrated and shook a lot more than I thought it should have. I tried to reassure the cowboy-pilot I was feeling OK; there was no need to rush. But since he'd notified the hospital staff that we were inbound, he insisted we get there as soon as possible. I couldn't help but think how ironic it would be to have survived one disaster only to be done in by the helicopter that had come to my rescue. However, we made it to the hospital safely--and quickly. Soon, I was able to contact Lockheed's flight test office at Edwards. The test team there had been notified initially about the loss of radio and radar contact, then told the aircraft had been lost. They also knew what our flight conditions had been at the time, and assumed no one could have survived. I briefly explained what had happened, describing in fairly accurate detail the flight conditions prior to breakup. The next day, our flight profile was duplicated on the SR-71 flight simulator at Beale AFB, Calif. The outcome was identical. Steps were immediately taken to prevent a recurrence of our accident. Testing at a CG aft of normal limits was discontinued, and trim-drag issues were subsequently resolved via aerodynamic means. The inlet control system was continuously improved and, with subsequent development of the Digital Automatic Flight and Inlet Control System, inlet unstarts became rare. Investigation of our accident revealed that the nose section of the aircraft had broken off aft of the rear cockpit and crashed about 10 mi. from the main wreckage. Parts were scattered over an area approximately 15 mi. long and 10 mi. wide. Extremely high air loads and g-forces, both positive and negative, had literally ripped Jim and me from the airplane. Unbelievably good luck is the only explanation for my escaping relatively unscathed from that disintegrating aircraft. Two weeks after the accident, I was back in an SR-71, flying the first sortie on a brand-new bird at Lockheed's Palmdale, Calif., assembly and test facility. It was my first flight since the accident, so a flight test engineer in the back seat was probably a little apprehensive about my state of mind and confidence. As we roared down the runway and lifted off, I heard an anxious voice over the intercom. "Bill! Bill! Are you there?" "Yeah, George. What's the matter?" "Thank God! I thought you might have left." The rear cockpit of the SR-71 has no forward visibility--only a small window on each side--and George couldn't see me. A big red light on the master-warning panel in the rear cockpit had illuminated just as we rotated, stating, "Pilot Ejected." Fortunately, the cause was a misadjusted microswitch, not my departure. Bill Weaver flight tested all models of the Mach-2 F-104 Starfighter and the entire family of Mach 3+ Blackbirds--the A-12, YF-12 and SR-71. He subsequently was assigned to Lockheed's L-1011 project as an engineering test pilot, became the company's chief pilot and retired as Division Manager of Commercial Flying Operations. He still flies Orbital Sciences Corp.'s L-1011, which has been modified to carry a Pegasus satellite-launch vehicle (AW&ST Aug. 25, 2003, p. 56). An FAA Designated Engineering Representative Flight Test Pilot, he's also involved in various aircraft-modification projects, conducting certification flight tests. "For those who fly....or long to." Contrails is an Aviation Week & Space Technology initiative to capture the untold stories that collectively make up the rich lore of aviation and space From mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us Mon Aug 22 17:40:13 2005 From: mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Mon Aug 22 17:41:04 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: What was California like in 1855?] Message-ID: <20050822214013.UJLV13573.centrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== Do you know what happened back in 1855? California became a state. The State had no electricity. The State had no money Almost everyone spoke Spanish. There were gunfights in the streets. So basically, it was just like California today except the women had real boobs. ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From dep at linuxandmain.com Mon Aug 22 20:36:10 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Mon Aug 22 20:25:25 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] oh, man -- scanner-under-linux woes Message-ID: <200508222036.10501.dep@linuxandmain.com> boy, did i fall for this one i go to staples for the entirely legitimate purpose of getting one of those big plastic things to put under my desk chair, in that it is not going to be this season that i rip up the carpet and install hardwood flooring. while poking around there, i see that they have this semi-nifty h-p see-through scanner for $40. now, a 2400x2400dpi scanner for $40 is a decent deal, so i get it. bring it home. unpack it. go online to find out what i need to do to get it to work under linux. answer, sadly, is figure out what the hardware wants and write a driver that supplies it, which is to say that we have here the scanner equivalent of the winmodem. well, no, winmodems are now supported under linux. so it's clear that the thing has to go back into the box and back to staples. of course, by now i'm realizing that i really do have use for a scanner. i'm thinking in particular of the boxes of negatives i have that i would like to more or less archive to cd or dvd or something. yes, i *must* have a scanner. fortunately, staples has many. but this time i'm smarter. the linux docs say that if you get a scanner, get an epson, because they always work under linux. well, okay, an epson it is. staples is great about taking back the silly h-p thing. i go to the scanner display. there are several h-p models -- the docs all said to avoid all of them because the very best isn't very good -- and a couple of canons, one of which looked great but they didn't have any. in fact, except for the awful h-p i had just returned, they had only one. fortunately, it was an epson. unfortunately, it was insanely expensive. but i looked at the specs and realized that this really was something i could use. i could, if i wanted, make a 100mb file out of each of those negatives (and that's just the 35mm stuff -- wait 'til we get to the 2 1/4!). yes, this is the scanner that would make me happy. and because epsons always work under linux, it was safe. yup. you will none of you be surprised to hear that upon my arrival at home i discovered that the epson perfection 4490 photo is *not* supported by linux. not with the usual open-source stuff and not with commercial apps such as vuescan. perhaps oneday it shall be. the amusing thing here is that i do have a machine which does have an operating system on it that works with the scanner. that machine is a toshiba libretto running windows 98. i could, therefore, hook up this honking big scanner to this vhs-cassette-sized computer, make my scans, copy the files to a zip disk, move the zip drive to the linux machine, copy the files from the zip drive to the linux machine, and repeat, over and over, until inspired to conduct an experiment on the efficacy of the 12-gauge rifled slug on a modern computer. oh, and i forgot to get the frigging mat for under my desk chair. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Tue Aug 23 16:53:06 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Tue Aug 23 16:54:27 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Zombies? Message-ID: Today's MUST-view: ftp://ftp.ruptured-duck.com/Greatest_Movie_Line_Ever.wmv -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From sjkleinsr at cox.net Tue Aug 23 17:16:00 2005 From: sjkleinsr at cox.net (Stan Klein, Sr.) Date: Tue Aug 23 17:19:04 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: Dictionary for Catholics] Message-ID: <20050823211635.FAUS23919.eastrmmtao03.cox.net@smtp.east.cox.net> > > Subject: Dictionary for Catholics > > AMEN: The only part of a prayer that everyone knows. > > BULLETIN: Your receipt for attending Mass. > > CHOIR: A group of people whose singing allows the rest of the Parish to > lip-sync. > > HOLY WATER: A liquid whose chemical formula is H2OLY. > > HYMN: A song of praise usually sung in a key three octaves higher than that > of the congregation's range. > > RECESSIONAL HYMN: The last song at Mass often sung a little more quietly, > since most of the people have already left. > > INCENSE: Holy Smoke! > > JESUITS: An order of priests known for their ability to find colleges with > good basketball teams. > > JONAH: The original "Jaws" story. > > JUSTICE: When kids have kids of their own. > > KYRIE ELEISON: The only Greek words that most Catholics can recognize > besides gyros and baklava. > > MAGI: The most famous trio to attend a baby shower. > > MANGER: Where Mary gave birth to Jesus because Joseph wasn't covered by an > HMO. (The Bible's way of showing us that holiday travel has always been rough.) > > PEW: A medieval torture device still found in Catholic churches. > > PROCESSION: The ceremonial formation at the beginning of Mass consisting of > altar servers, the celebrant, and late parishioners looking for seats. > > RECESSIONAL: The ceremonial procession at the conclusion of Mass led by > parishioners trying to beat the crowd to the parking lot. > > RELICS: People who have been going to Mass for so long, they actually know > when to sit, kneel, and stand. > > TEN COMMANDMENTS: The most important Top Ten list not given by David > Letterman. > > USHERS: The only people in the parish who don't know the seating capacity of > a pew. > Stan Klein, Sr. Homeless, live in a truck Will work for Chivas Regal/Johnny Walker Black From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Tue Aug 23 18:13:58 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Tue Aug 23 18:14:29 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Zombies? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Bob Bernstein wrote: > ftp://ftp.ruptured-duck.com/Greatest_Movie_Line_Ever.wmv I forgot to give credit where credit is due: Bro. Riddle contributed this tasty item! -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From mriddle at oasis.novia.net Tue Aug 23 19:04:36 2005 From: mriddle at oasis.novia.net (Mike Riddle) Date: Tue Aug 23 19:05:32 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Zombies? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200508232304.j7NN4aZD005122@oasis.novia.net> On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 18:13:58 -0400 (EDT), Bob Bernstein wrote: >On Tue, 23 Aug 2005, Bob Bernstein wrote: >> ftp://ftp.ruptured-duck.com/Greatest_Movie_Line_Ever.wmv >I forgot to give credit where credit is due: Bro. Riddle contributed >this tasty item! Well said, since Bro. Riddle's Bro. Riddle sent it to him! From mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us Wed Aug 24 13:41:04 2005 From: mriddle at monarch.papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Wed Aug 24 13:41:56 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: World's shortest fairy tale Message-ID: <20050824174105.KULD11616.centrmmtao02.cox.net@enigmaster> ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl "Will you marry me?" The girl said "No." And the guy lived happily ever after and went hunting and fishing and golfing a lot. THE END ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From spmaiorca at cox.net Tue Aug 23 22:37:04 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net) Date: Wed Aug 24 17:08:25 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] cartoon of the day Message-ID: <20050824023702.IYOI19627.fed1rmmtao01.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> From mriddle at papillion.ne.us Wed Aug 24 22:54:08 2005 From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Wed Aug 24 22:55:11 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: To Cindy, From America Message-ID: <20050825025409.LLVL15295.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@enigmaster> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 40269 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mailman.jtan.com/pipermail/os2-right-stuff-l/attachments/20050824/4538f7ef/attachment-0001.jpg From mriddle at papillion.ne.us Thu Aug 25 14:35:58 2005 From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Thu Aug 25 14:37:25 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: A lawyer's grocery list Message-ID: <20050825183558.VQSG17498.eastrmmtao04.cox.net@enigmaster> Forwarded with dep in mind.... ;-) ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== http://raymondpward.typepad.com/rainman2/2005/08/a_lawyers_groce.html ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== From dep at linuxandmain.com Thu Aug 25 20:24:34 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Thu Aug 25 20:12:23 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] eric alibut, meet charlie colon Message-ID: <200508252024.35035.dep@linuxandmain.com> http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0817peoplec-ON.html John Cleese sells pieces of his colon Suzanne Condie Lambert The Arizona Republic Aug. 17, 2005 08:49 AM John Cleese wants to share himself with his fans. He means that literally. The Monty Python alum is having surgery to cure diverticulitis - a procedure that will excise portions of his colon. But instead of consigning the tissue to the medical-waste incinerators, Cleese plans to offer the spare parts to high bidders on his Web site, TV Guide Online reports. The proceeds, he adds, "will be divided between (myself) and the very nice surgeon." [about which the cornerites had to say the following] JOHN CLEESE'S COLON [Kathryn Jean Lopez] Any takers? Posted at 05:09 PM RE: JOHN CLEESE'S COLON [JPod] No, but if he had a tape recorder up his brother's colon...(reference for Python fanatics only) Posted at 05:23 PM RE: JOHN CLEESE'S COLON [John Derbyshire] John Cleese's plan to sell bits of his colon on e-bay may fall afoul of regulations on the disposal of body parts. After having a tooth extracted recently as part of some orthodontic work, my daughter asked the dentist if she might keep the tooth. The dentist turned dead white and recoiled in horror, as if the girl had asked for his firstborn, boiled and served with collard greens. Extracted teeth, we were told very sternly, must be PROPERLY DISPOSED OF according to STATE REGULATIONS, and MOST CERTAINLY MAY NOT be taken home. And this was a perfectly healthy body part. I feel pretty sure that segments of diseased colon, in New York State at any rate, are not acceptable items of commerce. Posted at 06:36 PM DO I REALLY HAVE TO BE THE ONE TO DO THIS? [Kathryn Jean Lopez] Semi-colon for sale! Posted at 06:37 PM HELLO POLLY! HELLO POLLY COLON! [JPod] This--is--an--ex-colon! Posted at 06:50 PM -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From dep at linuxandmain.com Fri Aug 26 08:13:44 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Fri Aug 26 08:03:21 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] dear cindy sheehan Message-ID: <200508260813.44990.dep@linuxandmain.com> http://www.defenddemocracy.org/in_the_media/in_the_media_show.htm?doc_id=293575&attrib_id=7374 Dear Cindy; An Open Letter to the Mother of a Fallen Hero By Clifford D. May Scripps Howard News Service August 25, 2005 Dear Cindy Sheehan: I know you want to talk to President Bush about the conflict in Iraq, the war in which your son, Specialist Casey Sheehan, was tragically killed. I also know that while the President met with you previously, he is not eager to see you again ? not now that you are affiliated with Moveon.org and supported by David Duke and handled by slick public relations professionals. So let me suggest an alternative: Come visit with me. Our meeting probably won't get much publicity but I can promise you an interesting discussion. I'll invite to join us some of the many Iraqi freedom fighters with whom I've been working for the past several years ? many of them women -- as well as democracy and human rights activists from Syria, Iran, Libya, Egypt, Lebanon and other countries. You say you want to know, ?What is the noble cause that my son died for?? They would answer: Your son died fighting a war against an extremist movement intent on destroying free societies and replacing them with racist dictatorships. The Iraqis will want to tell you what life was like under Saddam Hussein ? the mass murders of hundreds of thousands, the women and girls who were gang-raped by Saddam's cronies, the creative forms of torture that were ignored by the ?international community.? I know several Baghdadi businessmen whom Saddam suspected of disloyalty. He had their right hands amputated. Want to meet them? The doctors who were forced to perform these amputations are worth chatting with as well. It's true, as you and others have pointed out, that we did not find Saddam's Weapons of Mass Destruction. But don't be misled into believing that Saddam never had any. Indeed, he used chemical weapons against the Kurds, slaughtering thousands in villages like Halabja, where mothers laid down in the streets and embraced their children in their final moments. We can show you pictures. We can introduce you to survivors. Like you, I wish America's intelligence agencies had known more than they did about Saddam's capabilities. But Saddam's intentions were never in doubt. Cindy, you've been calling for the U.S. to get out of Iraq at a time when our enemies in that country include the most aggressive and lethal branch of al-Qaeda, led by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Can you not see that if we were to retreat from Iraq now, it would be a historic defeat for the United States? And it would be a huge victory for al-Qaeda. Zarqawi would view himself ? not without justification ? as a giant killer. Recruits would flock to him for the many battles that would, inevitably, follow. We could not expect to do better in those battles than we did in Iraq. We will never be able to make ourselves inoffensive to the racist death cults that have declared war on us. When these barbarians kill brave Americans like Casey Sheehan we can't run and hide. Or rather we can ? but that only invites the terrorists to hit us again. For years we didn't understand that. The consequence was Sept. 11, 2001. Remember: We fled from Somalia in 1993. We left Saddam in power after the first Gulf War in 1991. We did nothing much after the Hezbollah bombing of our Marine barracks in 1983. Our response to the taking of American hostages in Tehran in 1979 was toothless. In each of these cases ? and too many others ? we demonstrated to our enemies that there would be no penalty for humiliating and even slaughtering Americans. In each of these cases Osama bin Laden saw evidence that Americans are irresolute and weak; that America's military ? for all its sophistication and technology ? would prove no match for determined hostage-takers, decapitators and suicide bombers. One more thing: Your slogan has been ?America out of Iraq!? and also ?Israel out of Palestine!? I wonder if you understand that you are calling for the ethnic cleansing of Jews from their ancient homeland. I wonder if you understand that more than half of all Israelis fled from places like Tehran, Cairo and Tripoli ? and they are not welcome to return. I wonder if you understand that there is no way for Israelis to get ?out of Palestine? that does not include genocide. If you and your supporters are not, in fact, arguing for another Holocaust, would you be so good as to clarify your remarks? Again, Cindy, I hope we can discuss all of this and more in my office with my friends ?fighters for freedom who count on the support of freedom-loving Americans. Will you join us for lunch? Tuna or turkey? Clifford D. May, a former New York Times foreign correspondent, is the president of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies a policy institute focusing on terrorism. -- dep From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Fri Aug 26 14:52:34 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Fri Aug 26 14:59:02 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Taheri on the constitution Message-ID: "...the fact remains that this is still the most democratic constitution offered to any Muslim nation so far." Amir Taheri: http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/51628.htm -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From spmaiorca at cox.net Fri Aug 26 21:11:17 2005 From: spmaiorca at cox.net (spmaiorca@cox.net) Date: Fri Aug 26 21:11:59 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] [Fwd: [Laid Off Land] Emails] Message-ID: <20050827011117.NHSV8651.fed1rmmtao05.cox.net@smtp.west.cox.net> > > From: beverlyreed2002 > Date: 2005/08/26 Fri PM 06:30:27 EDT > To: laidoffland@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Laid Off Land] Emails > > -------------- next part -------------- I want to thank all of you who have taken the time and trouble to send me your chain letters over the past two years. Thank you for making me feel safe, secure, blessed, and wealthy. Because of your concern....... ......................... I no longer can drink Coca Cola because it can remove toilet stains. ......................... I no longer drink Pepsi or Dr. Pepper since the people who make these products are atheists who refuse to put "Under God" on their cans. ........................ I no longer use Saran wrap in the microwave because it causes cancer. ........................... I no longer check the coin return on pay phones because I could be pricked with a needle infected with AIDS. ............................. I no longer use cancer-causing deodorants even though I smell like a water buffalo on a hot day. .......................... I no longer go to shopping malls because someone will drug me with a perfume sample and rob me. ............................. I no longer receive packages from UPS or FedEx since they are actually Al Qaeda in disguise. .......................... I no longer shop at Target since they are French and don't support our troops. .......................... I no longer answer the phone because someone will ask me to dial a stupid number for which I will get the phone bill from hell with calls to Jamaica, Uganda, Singapore, and Uzbekistan. .......................... I no longer eat prepackaged foods because the estrogens they contain will turn me gay. ............................ I no longer eat KFC because their chickens are actually horrible mutant freaks with no eyes or feathers. ......................... I no longer go to bars because someone will drug me and take my kidneys and leave me taking a nap in a bathtub full of ice. ............................. Thanks to you, I have learned that God only answers my prayers if I forward an email to 7 of my friends and make a wish within 5 minutes. ............................... I no longer have any savings because I gave it to a sick girl who has been dying for the past seven years. ................................ I no longer have any money at all, but that will change once I receive the $15,000 that Microsoft and AOL are sending me for participating in their special e-mail program. .............................. I WILL NOW RETURN THE FAVOR..... If you don't send this e-mail to at least 1200 people in the next 60 seconds, a large bird with diarrhea will fly over your head at 5:00 PM and the fleas of a thousand camels will infest your armpits. I know this will occur because it actually happened to a friend of a friend of a friend's neighbor's cousin, and he's a lawyer. So you'd better get going on that e-mail!!! SPONSORED LINKS [1]Rant [2]Humor _________________________________________________________________ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS * Visit your group "[3]laidoffland" on the web. * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [4]laidoffland-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the [5]Yahoo! Terms of Service. _________________________________________________________________ References 1. http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Rant&w1=Rant&w2=Humor&c=2&s=21&.sig=sD5Bewqu8Y0-HiHkKANhyg 2. http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Humor&w1=Rant&w2=Humor&c=2&s=21&.sig=vqHhA6cNmS4JNY0IKVfz-A 3. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/laidoffland 4. mailto:laidoffland-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe 5. http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Sat Aug 27 15:35:59 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Sat Aug 27 15:37:02 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Hey, I got brain cancer too... Message-ID: ...yeah -- that's it; that's the ticket. http://www.nysun.com/article/19205 -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Sat Aug 27 18:34:06 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Sat Aug 27 18:47:06 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Damn that bird flu to hell! Message-ID: "At CIA "they think the biggest threat from China is bird flu," said one official who is critical of the agency." Bill Gertz & Rowan Scarborough: http://washingtontimes.com/national/20050825-111136-3212r_page2.htm -- Bob Bernstein That's right, I'm using Pine on a Mac. Deal with it. From gsjenkins at longview.net Fri Aug 26 04:14:58 2005 From: gsjenkins at longview.net (Stewart Jenkins) Date: Sat Aug 27 23:55:23 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Steyn Message-ID: <200508260314.58779.gsjenkins@longview.net> A good one dep will really appreciate. LESSONS FROM THE BIG ONE Until 60 years ago, all Nagasaki meant to most westerners was the setting for Madame Butterfly and a novelty pop song from the 1920s: Back in Nagasaki where the fellers chew tobaccy And the women wicky-wacky-woo? Fats Waller, Cab Calloway, the Mills Brothers, Benny Goodman, Django Reinhardt? there was no shortage of recordings of ?Nagasaki? through the Thirties and early Forties - up to, oh, about two minutes past eleven on the morning of August 9th 1945. And since then, well, you don?t hear the song too much anymore. Nagasaki joined Hiroshima as a one-word shorthand for events beyond the scale of Tin Pan Alley exotica. Sometimes the transformative event comes in an instant, as it did out of the skies from a B-29 sixty Augusts ago. Sometimes the transformation is slower and less perceptible: The United States that so confidently nuked two Japanese cities is as lost to us as the old pre-mushroom cloud Nagasaki. In what circumstances would Washington nuke an enemy today? Were we to re-run World War Two, advisors to the President would counsel against the poor optics of dropping the big one, problems keeping allies on board, media storm, Congressional inquiries, UN resolutions, NGOs making a flap, etc. And chances are the Administration would opt to slug it out town for town in a conventional invasion costing a million casualties. There?s no doubt the atomic bomb wound up saving lives ? American, Japanese, and maybe millions in the lands the latter occupied. The more interesting question is to what degree it enabled the Japan we know today. They were a fearsome enemy, and had no time for decadent concepts such as magnanimity in victory. If you want the big picture, the Japanese occupation of China left 15 million Chinese dead. If you want the small picture, consider Tarawa in the Gilbert Islands. It fell to the Japanese shortly after Pearl Harbor, when the 22 British watchkeepers surrendered to vastly superior forces. The following year, the Japanese took their British prisoners, tied them to trees, decapitated them, and burned their bodies in a pit. You won?t find that in the Geneva Conventions. The Japs fought a filthy war, but a mere six decades later and America, Britain and Japan sit side by side at G7 meetings, the US and Canada apologize unceasingly for the wartime internment of Japanese civilians, and an historically authentic vernacular expression such as ?the Japs fought a filthy war? is now so distasteful that use of it inevitably attracts noisy complaints about offensively racist characterizations. The old militarist culture ? of kamikaze fanatics, and occupation regimes that routinely tortured and beheaded and even ate their prisoners ? is dead as dead can be. Would that have happened without Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the earlier non-nuclear raids? In one night of ?conventional? bombing ? March 9th ? 100,000 Japanese died in Tokyo. Taking a surrender from the enemy is one thing; ensuring that he?s completely, totally, utterly beaten is another. A peace without Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have been a different kind of peace; the surrender would have been, in every sense, more ?conditional?: Japanese militarism would not have been so thoroughly vanquished, nor so obviously responsible for the nation?s humiliation and devastation, and therefore not so irredeemably consigned to history. A greater affection and respect for the old regime could well have persisted, and lingered to hobble the new modern, democratic Japan devised by the Americans. Which brings us to our present troubles. Nobody?s suggesting nuking Mecca. Well, okay, the other day a Republican Congressman, Tom Tacredo, did ? or at any rate he raised the possibility that at some point America might well have to ?bomb? Mecca. Even I, a fully paid-up armchair warmonger, balked at that one, prompting some of my more robust correspondents to suggest I?d gone over to the side of the New York Times pantywaists. But forget about bombing Mecca and consider the broader lesson of Hiroshima and Nagasaki: an enemy folds when he knows he?s finished. In Iraq, despite the swift fall of the Saddamites, it?s not clear the enemy did know. Indeed, the western peaceniks? pre-war ?human shields? operation proved to be completely superfluous mainly because the Anglo-American forces decided to treat not just Iraqi civilians and not just Iraqi conscripts but virtually everyone other than Saddam, Uday and Qusay as a de facto human shield. Washington made a conscious choice to give every Iraqi the benefit of the doubt, including the fake surrenderers who ambushed the US marines at Nasiriyah. If you could get to a rooftop, you could fire rocket-propelled grenades at the Brits and Yanks with impunity, because, under the most onerous rules of engagement ever devised, they wouldn?t fire back just in case the building you were standing on hadn?t been completely evacuated. Michael Moore and George Galloway may have thought the neocons were itching to massacre hundreds of thousands, but the behaviour of the Baathists suggests they knew better: they assumed western decency and, having no regard either for enemy lives or for those of their own people, acted accordingly. Was this a mistake? Several analysts weren?t happy about it at the time, simply because Washington and London were exposing their own troops to greater danger than necessary. But, with hindsight, it also helped set up a lot of the problems Iraq?s had to contend with since: not enough Baathists were killed in the initial invasion; too many bigshots survived to plot mischief and too many minnows were allowed to melt back into the general population to provide a delivery system for that mischief. And in a basic psychological sense excessive solicitude for the enemy won us not sympathy but contempt. Better Nagasaki than a lot of misplaced wicky-wacky-woo. The main victims of western squeamishness in those few weeks in the spring of 2003 turned out to be not American or coalition troops but the Iraqi civilians who today provide the principal target for ?insurgents?. It would have better for them had more Baathists been killed in the initial invasion. It would have been preferable, too, if the swarm of foreign jihadi from neighboring countries had occasionally been met with the ?accidental? bombing of certain targets on the Syrian side of the border. Wars fought under absurd degrees of self-imposed etiquette are the most difficult to win ? see Korea and Vietnam ? and one lesson of Germany and Japan is that it?s easier to rebuild societies if they?ve first been completely smashed. Michael Ledeen, a shrewd analyst of the present conflict, likes to sign-off his essays by urging the Administration, ?Faster, please?. That?s good advice. So too is: Tougher, please. The Irish Times, August 1st 2005 -- Stewart... They took the fourth amendment and I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it. From dep at linuxandmain.com Sun Aug 28 01:40:00 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Sun Aug 28 01:27:12 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Steyn In-Reply-To: <200508260314.58779.gsjenkins@longview.net> References: <200508260314.58779.gsjenkins@longview.net> Message-ID: <200508280140.00491.dep@linuxandmain.com> quoth Stewart Jenkins: | A good one dep will really appreciate. yup. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From paul.lewis at quadensemble.co.uk Sun Aug 28 06:14:33 2005 From: paul.lewis at quadensemble.co.uk (Paul Lewis) Date: Sun Aug 28 06:09:09 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Iraq & the red cross Message-ID: <1125224073l.8335l.0l@karachi> http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005313.php From MSPRATH at aol.com Sun Aug 28 13:15:58 2005 From: MSPRATH at aol.com (MSPRATH@aol.com) Date: Sun Aug 28 13:17:32 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Where do you live? Message-ID: <19c.3a76a2e6.30434b4e@aol.com> Reno, NV 33% I've got orders to tiny little Fallon, NV (pop about 4000) home of Naval Air Station Fallon, NV. We just finished looking for a house in Fallon which is 70 miles away from Reno. Bottom line, we felt like we couldn't afford an appropriate house. We made an offer that we eventually withdrew for a house that was 169k last year and they were asking 279k this year. The town has new construction going up everywhere. But, who's going to move there? It's all ripple effect from Reno. It really scared me that next year that house would be back to around 215k or so, and then I'd be stuck with a high mortgage. I hope the speculators will get out of this soon and make housing appropriately priced for all of us. Mike From gsjenkins at longview.net Fri Aug 26 04:14:58 2005 From: gsjenkins at longview.net (Stewart Jenkins) Date: Sun Aug 28 14:25:46 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Steyn Message-ID: <200508260314.58779.gsjenkins@longview.net> A good one dep will really appreciate. LESSONS FROM THE BIG ONE Until 60 years ago, all Nagasaki meant to most westerners was the setting for Madame Butterfly and a novelty pop song from the 1920s: Back in Nagasaki where the fellers chew tobaccy And the women wicky-wacky-woo? Fats Waller, Cab Calloway, the Mills Brothers, Benny Goodman, Django Reinhardt? there was no shortage of recordings of ?Nagasaki? through the Thirties and early Forties - up to, oh, about two minutes past eleven on the morning of August 9th 1945. And since then, well, you don?t hear the song too much anymore. Nagasaki joined Hiroshima as a one-word shorthand for events beyond the scale of Tin Pan Alley exotica. Sometimes the transformative event comes in an instant, as it did out of the skies from a B-29 sixty Augusts ago. Sometimes the transformation is slower and less perceptible: The United States that so confidently nuked two Japanese cities is as lost to us as the old pre-mushroom cloud Nagasaki. In what circumstances would Washington nuke an enemy today? Were we to re-run World War Two, advisors to the President would counsel against the poor optics of dropping the big one, problems keeping allies on board, media storm, Congressional inquiries, UN resolutions, NGOs making a flap, etc. And chances are the Administration would opt to slug it out town for town in a conventional invasion costing a million casualties. There?s no doubt the atomic bomb wound up saving lives ? American, Japanese, and maybe millions in the lands the latter occupied. The more interesting question is to what degree it enabled the Japan we know today. They were a fearsome enemy, and had no time for decadent concepts such as magnanimity in victory. If you want the big picture, the Japanese occupation of China left 15 million Chinese dead. If you want the small picture, consider Tarawa in the Gilbert Islands. It fell to the Japanese shortly after Pearl Harbor, when the 22 British watchkeepers surrendered to vastly superior forces. The following year, the Japanese took their British prisoners, tied them to trees, decapitated them, and burned their bodies in a pit. You won?t find that in the Geneva Conventions. The Japs fought a filthy war, but a mere six decades later and America, Britain and Japan sit side by side at G7 meetings, the US and Canada apologize unceasingly for the wartime internment of Japanese civilians, and an historically authentic vernacular expression such as ?the Japs fought a filthy war? is now so distasteful that use of it inevitably attracts noisy complaints about offensively racist characterizations. The old militarist culture ? of kamikaze fanatics, and occupation regimes that routinely tortured and beheaded and even ate their prisoners ? is dead as dead can be. Would that have happened without Hiroshima and Nagasaki, or the earlier non-nuclear raids? In one night of ?conventional? bombing ? March 9th ? 100,000 Japanese died in Tokyo. Taking a surrender from the enemy is one thing; ensuring that he?s completely, totally, utterly beaten is another. A peace without Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have been a different kind of peace; the surrender would have been, in every sense, more ?conditional?: Japanese militarism would not have been so thoroughly vanquished, nor so obviously responsible for the nation?s humiliation and devastation, and therefore not so irredeemably consigned to history. A greater affection and respect for the old regime could well have persisted, and lingered to hobble the new modern, democratic Japan devised by the Americans. Which brings us to our present troubles. Nobody?s suggesting nuking Mecca. Well, okay, the other day a Republican Congressman, Tom Tacredo, did ? or at any rate he raised the possibility that at some point America might well have to ?bomb? Mecca. Even I, a fully paid-up armchair warmonger, balked at that one, prompting some of my more robust correspondents to suggest I?d gone over to the side of the New York Times pantywaists. But forget about bombing Mecca and consider the broader lesson of Hiroshima and Nagasaki: an enemy folds when he knows he?s finished. In Iraq, despite the swift fall of the Saddamites, it?s not clear the enemy did know. Indeed, the western peaceniks? pre-war ?human shields? operation proved to be completely superfluous mainly because the Anglo-American forces decided to treat not just Iraqi civilians and not just Iraqi conscripts but virtually everyone other than Saddam, Uday and Qusay as a de facto human shield. Washington made a conscious choice to give every Iraqi the benefit of the doubt, including the fake surrenderers who ambushed the US marines at Nasiriyah. If you could get to a rooftop, you could fire rocket-propelled grenades at the Brits and Yanks with impunity, because, under the most onerous rules of engagement ever devised, they wouldn?t fire back just in case the building you were standing on hadn?t been completely evacuated. Michael Moore and George Galloway may have thought the neocons were itching to massacre hundreds of thousands, but the behaviour of the Baathists suggests they knew better: they assumed western decency and, having no regard either for enemy lives or for those of their own people, acted accordingly. Was this a mistake? Several analysts weren?t happy about it at the time, simply because Washington and London were exposing their own troops to greater danger than necessary. But, with hindsight, it also helped set up a lot of the problems Iraq?s had to contend with since: not enough Baathists were killed in the initial invasion; too many bigshots survived to plot mischief and too many minnows were allowed to melt back into the general population to provide a delivery system for that mischief. And in a basic psychological sense excessive solicitude for the enemy won us not sympathy but contempt. Better Nagasaki than a lot of misplaced wicky-wacky-woo. The main victims of western squeamishness in those few weeks in the spring of 2003 turned out to be not American or coalition troops but the Iraqi civilians who today provide the principal target for ?insurgents?. It would have better for them had more Baathists been killed in the initial invasion. It would have been preferable, too, if the swarm of foreign jihadi from neighboring countries had occasionally been met with the ?accidental? bombing of certain targets on the Syrian side of the border. Wars fought under absurd degrees of self-imposed etiquette are the most difficult to win ? see Korea and Vietnam ? and one lesson of Germany and Japan is that it?s easier to rebuild societies if they?ve first been completely smashed. Michael Ledeen, a shrewd analyst of the present conflict, likes to sign-off his essays by urging the Administration, ?Faster, please?. That?s good advice. So too is: Tougher, please. The Irish Times, August 1st 2005 -- Stewart... They took the fourth amendment and I was quiet because I didn't deal drugs When they took the sixth amendment, I was quiet because I was innocent. When they took the second amendment, I was quiet because I didn't own a gun Now they've taken the first amendment, and I can say nothing about it. From Sweeks1951 at cs.com Sun Aug 28 17:36:03 2005 From: Sweeks1951 at cs.com (Sweeks1951@cs.com) Date: Sun Aug 28 17:41:41 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Where do you live? Message-ID: <45.2f478519.30438843@cs.com> In a message dated 8/28/2005 10:23:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, MSPRATH@aol.com writes: > We made an offer that we eventually withdrew for a house > that was 169k last year and they were asking 279k this year. The town has > new > construction going up everywhere. But, who's going to move there? To me, that is not a good combination, because I've been there. When I bought a townhouse in Virginia in the early 80's it was in a residential suburb of DC. Lots of new construction going on nearby. The prices had gone up from the 40's to the 70's in the previous 4 or 5 years before I bought. Bought for 72K in '84. As soon as I bought (when interest rates had also peaked!) values flattened out for 5 or 6 years and then slowly crept up. 112K was value in 97 when I moved to San Diego. That's less than 4% annual return before selling fees. Hardly stellar ... bought at wrong time in wrong place, all the new construction nearby kept a steady stream of "new" sales. A friend bought an old house (a mild fixer-upper) closer in that was in a built out area and he did quite well during same period. Condos around here in San Diego are going down, as the flippers and unrealistic sellers have done their thing. My girlfriend had a listing for a deceased friend. Son arrives on scene and wanted 285K for a one bedroom. She said 265K tops. He told her she didn't know what she was doing, his friends said it was worth more! She was "fired" ... That was 9 months ago. Price is now down to 225K, still no sale. Lots of "For Sale" signs around here getting aged by the sun. Same type unit in same complex she sold for 260K several months ago and owner bad-mouthed her to neighbors for not getting top dollar (owner wanted 295K) even though it actually was top dollar for the complex. From ljt at gis.net Mon Aug 29 07:10:50 2005 From: ljt at gis.net (Linda Turcotte) Date: Mon Aug 29 07:11:49 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] TV show Message-ID: <112531385701@mx05.gis.net> Masterpiece Theatre will have a new series of Foyle's War this September; I think the 4-part series begins on the 11th. Linda From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Mon Aug 29 12:36:18 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Mon Aug 29 12:39:54 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] TV show In-Reply-To: <112531385701@mx05.gis.net> References: <112531385701@mx05.gis.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Linda Turcotte wrote: > Masterpiece Theatre will have a new series of Foyle's War this > September; I think the 4-part series begins on the 11th. Hooray! -- "I came into this game for adventure - go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's trouble, a man alone. Now they've got the whole country sectioned off and you can't move without a form. I'm the last of a breed." Archibald "Harry" Tuttle, Heating Engineer From dep at linuxandmain.com Mon Aug 29 16:08:47 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Mon Aug 29 15:56:40 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] cindy, oh cindy Message-ID: <200508291608.47822.dep@linuxandmain.com> http://www.theamericanprowler.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=8644 The Best of Cindy Sheehan By Mark Goldblatt Published 8/29/2005 12:04:01 AM Cindy Sheehan, whose son Casey was killed in Iraq, and who's been intermittently camped outside President Bush's ranch in Texas demanding to meet with him for a second time, has been hailed as the public face of the antiwar movement. Maureen Dowd of the New York Times has declared that Sheehan's moral authority is "absolute." So in the interest of more fully tapping that moral authority, here's a collection of Sheehan quotes: "Thank God for the Internet, or we wouldn't know anything, and we would already be a fascist state." "Our government is run by one party, every level, and the mainstream media is a propaganda tool for the government." "Then we have this lying bastard, George Bush, taking a five week vacation in a time of war. You know what? I'm never going to get to enjoy another vacation because of him. My vacation probably -- this is really sad because I have a really cute dress I was going to wear to the banquet tomorrow night -- but I'm either going to be in jail or in a tent in Crawford, waiting until that jerk comes out and tells me why my son died." "You tell me the truth. You tell me that my son died for oil. You tell me that my son died to make your friends rich. You tell me my son died to spread the cancer of Pax Americana, imperialism in the Middle East." "And if you think I won't say bulls**t to the President, I say move on, cause I'll say what's on my mind." "You get that evil maniac out here, 'cause a Gold Star Mother, somebody whose blood is on his hands, has some questions for him." "The biggest terrorist is George W. Bush." "If he thinks that it's so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go to this war." "What can we do to get him out of power? And I'm gonna say the 'I' word: Impeach. And we have to have everybody impeached that lied to the American public, and that's the executive branch, and any people in congress, and we got to go all the way down... to the person who picks up the dogs**t in Washington because we can't let somebody rise to the top who will pardon these war criminals. Because they need to go to prison for what they've done in this world. We can't have a pardon. They need to pay for what they've done." "It's up to us, the people, to break immoral laws and resist. As soon as the leaders of a country lie to you, they have no authority over you. These maniacs have no authority over us. And they might be able to put our bodies in prison, but they can't put our spirits in prison." "Is there anyone in America who cannot yet see that Donald Rumsfeld is a liar, that he -- as with Hitler and Stalin -- will say anything so long as he thinks it will help shape the world to his own liking? Is there even one sane adult among us who cannot see that Donald Rumsfeld is a threat to our nation's security and to peace on our beloved earth?" "Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC [Project for the New American Century] Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full well that my son, my family, this nation, and this world were betrayed by George [W.] Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agenda after 9/11." "We are waging a nuclear war in Iraq right now. That country is contaminated. It will be contaminated for practically eternity now." "I was raised in a country by a public school system that taught us that America was good, that America was just. America has been killing people... since we first stepped on this continent; we have been responsible for death and destruction. I passed on that bulls**t to my son, and my son enlisted. I'm going all over the country telling moms this country is not worth dying for." "Our country has been overtaken by murderous thugs... gangsters who lust after fortunes and power, never caring that their addictions are at the expense of our loved ones, and the blood of innocent people near and far. We've watched these thugs parade themselves before the whole world as if they are courageous advocates for Christian moral values... and for the spread of democracy. Yet we all know that they are now putting in place, all across this country, a system of voting that provides no way to validate the accuracy of the counting of the votes... and that, by its very design, prohibits recounting the votes. Our loved ones have been buried in early graves even as these arrogant thugs parade themselves before the entire world, insisting that democracy is worth dying for, killing for, and destroying entire cities for... In their secret hiding places, while celebrating newly won fortunes with their fellow brass, these men must surely congratulate themselves with orgies of carnal pleasure as they mock the dwindling multitudes who are yet so blind as to mistake them for God's devoted servants." Come to think of it, Cindy Sheehan is a perfect mouthpiece for the anti-war movement. Why not go the whole hog and give her a bi-weekly column at the Times? Mark Goldblatt is the author of Africa Speaks, a satire of black urban culture. You can email him here[Mgold57@aol.com]. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org Mon Aug 29 19:05:28 2005 From: bob at SixtiesSurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Mon Aug 29 19:08:44 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] 3000+ words by Hitchens Message-ID: The Weekly Standard A War to Be Proud Of >From the September 5 / September 12, 2005 issue: The case for overthrowing Saddam was unimpeachable. Why, then, is the administration tongue-tied? by Christopher Hitchens 09/05/2005, Volume 010, Issue 47 LET ME BEGIN WITH A simple sentence that, even as I write it, appears less than Swiftian in the modesty of its proposal: "Prison conditions at Abu Ghraib have improved markedly and dramatically since the arrival of Coalition troops in Baghdad." I could undertake to defend that statement against any member of Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International, and I know in advance that none of them could challenge it, let alone negate it. Before March 2003, Abu Ghraib was an abattoir, a torture chamber, and a concentration camp. Now, and not without reason, it is an international byword for Yankee imperialism and sadism. Yet the improvement is still, unarguably, the difference between night and day. How is it possible that the advocates of a post-Saddam Iraq have been placed on the defensive in this manner? And where should one begin? I once tried to calculate how long the post-Cold War liberal Utopia had actually lasted. Whether you chose to date its inception from the fall of the Berlin Wall in November 1989, or the death of Nicolae Ceausescu in late December of the same year, or the release of Nelson Mandela from prison, or the referendum defeat suffered by Augusto Pinochet (or indeed from the publication of Francis Fukuyama's book about the "end of history" and the unarguable triumph of market liberal pluralism), it was an epoch that in retrospect was over before it began. By the middle of 1990, Saddam Hussein had abolished Kuwait and Slobodan Milosevic was attempting to erase the identity and the existence of Bosnia. It turned out that we had not by any means escaped the reach of atavistic, aggressive, expansionist, and totalitarian ideology. Proving the same point in another way, and within approximately the same period, the theocratic dictator of Iran had publicly claimed the right to offer money in his own name for the suborning of the murder of a novelist living in London, and the génocidaire faction in Rwanda had decided that it could probably get away with putting its long-fantasized plan of mass murder into operation. One is not mentioning these apparently discrepant crimes and nightmares as a random or unsorted list. Khomeini, for example, was attempting to compensate for the humiliation of the peace agreement he had been compelled to sign with Saddam Hussein. And Saddam Hussein needed to make up the loss, of prestige and income, that he had himself suffered in the very same war. Milosevic (anticipating Putin, as it now seems to me, and perhaps Beijing also) was riding a mutation of socialist nationalism into national socialism. It was to be noticed in all cases that the aggressors, whether they were killing Muslims, or exalting Islam, or just killing their neighbors, shared a deep and abiding hatred of the United States. The balance sheet of the Iraq war, if it is to be seriously drawn up, must also involve a confrontation with at least this much of recent history. Was the Bush administration right to leave--actually to confirm--Saddam Hussein in power after his eviction from Kuwait in 1991? Was James Baker correct to say, in his delightfully folksy manner, that the United States did not "have a dog in the fight" that involved ethnic cleansing for the mad dream of a Greater Serbia? Was the Clinton administration prudent in its retreat from Somalia, or wise in its opposition to the U.N. resolution that called for a preemptive strengthening of the U.N. forces in Rwanda? I know hardly anybody who comes out of this examination with complete credit. There were neoconservatives who jeered at Rushdie in 1989 and who couldn't see the point when Sarajevo faced obliteration in 1992. There were leftist humanitarians and radicals who rallied to Rushdie and called for solidarity with Bosnia, but who--perhaps because of a bad conscience about Palestine--couldn't face a confrontation with Saddam Hussein even when he annexed a neighbor state that was a full member of the Arab League and of the U.N. (I suppose I have to admit that I was for a time a member of that second group.) But there were consistencies, too. French statecraft, for example, was uniformly hostile to any resistance to any aggression, and Paris even sent troops to rescue its filthy clientele in Rwanda. And some on the hard left and the brute right were also opposed to any exercise, for any reason, of American military force. The only speech by any statesman that can bear reprinting from that low, dishonest decade came from Tony Blair when he spoke in Chicago in 1999. Welcoming the defeat and overthrow of Milosevic after the Kosovo intervention, he warned against any self-satisfaction and drew attention to an inescapable confrontation that was coming with Saddam Hussein. So far from being an American "poodle," as his taunting and ignorant foes like to sneer, Blair had in fact leaned on Clinton over Kosovo and was insisting on the importance of Iraq while George Bush was still an isolationist governor of Texas. Notwithstanding this prescience and principle on his part, one still cannot read the journals of the 2000/2001 millennium without the feeling that one is revisiting a hopelessly somnambulist relative in a neglected home. I am one of those who believe, uncynically, that Osama bin Laden did us all a service (and holy war a great disservice) by his mad decision to assault the American homeland four years ago. Had he not made this world-historical mistake, we would have been able to add a Talibanized and nuclear-armed Pakistan to our list of the threats we failed to recognize in time. (This threat still exists, but it is no longer so casually overlooked.) The subsequent liberation of Pakistan's theocratic colony in Afghanistan, and the so-far decisive eviction and defeat of its bin Ladenist guests, was only a reprisal. It took care of the last attack. But what about the next one? For anyone with eyes to see, there was only one other state that combined the latent and the blatant definitions of both "rogue" and "failed." This state--Saddam's ruined and tortured and collapsing Iraq--had also met all the conditions under which a country may be deemed to have sacrificed its own legal sovereignty. To recapitulate: It had invaded its neighbors, committed genocide on its own soil, harbored and nurtured international thugs and killers, and flouted every provision of the Non-Proliferation Treaty. The United Nations, in this crisis, faced with regular insult to its own resolutions and its own character, had managed to set up a system of sanctions-based mutual corruption. In May 2003, had things gone on as they had been going, Saddam Hussein would have been due to fill Iraq's slot as chair of the U.N. Conference on Disarmament. Meanwhile, every species of gangster from the hero of the Achille Lauro hijacking to Abu Musab al Zarqawi was finding hospitality under Saddam's crumbling roof. One might have thought, therefore, that Bush and Blair's decision to put an end at last to this intolerable state of affairs would be hailed, not just as a belated vindication of long-ignored U.N. resolutions but as some corrective to the decade of shame and inaction that had just passed in Bosnia and Rwanda. But such is not the case. An apparent consensus exists, among millions of people in Europe and America, that the whole operation for the demilitarization of Iraq, and the salvage of its traumatized society, was at best a false pretense and at worst an unprovoked aggression. How can this possibly be? THERE IS, first, the problem of humorless and pseudo-legalistic literalism. In Saki's short story The Lumber Room, the naughty but clever child Nicholas, who has actually placed a frog in his morning bread-and-milk, rejoices in his triumph over the adults who don't credit this excuse for not eating his healthful dish: "You said there couldn't possibly be a frog in my bread-and-milk; there was a frog in my bread-and-milk," he repeated, with the insistence of a skilled tactician who does not intend to shift from favorable ground. Childishness is one thing--those of us who grew up on this wonderful Edwardian author were always happy to see the grown-ups and governesses discomfited. But puerility in adults is quite another thing, and considerably less charming. "You said there were WMDs in Iraq and that Saddam had friends in al Qaeda. . . . Blah, blah, pants on fire." I have had many opportunities to tire of this mantra. It takes ten seconds to intone the said mantra. It would take me, on my most eloquent C-SPAN day, at the very least five minutes to say that Abdul Rahman Yasin, who mixed the chemicals for the World Trade Center attack in 1993, subsequently sought and found refuge in Baghdad; that Dr. Mahdi Obeidi, Saddam's senior physicist, was able to lead American soldiers to nuclear centrifuge parts and a blueprint for a complete centrifuge (the crown jewel of nuclear physics) buried on the orders of Qusay Hussein; that Saddam's agents were in Damascus as late as February 2003, negotiating to purchase missiles off the shelf from North Korea; or that Rolf Ekeus, the great Swedish socialist who founded the inspection process in Iraq after 1991, has told me for the record that he was offered a $2 million bribe in a face-to-face meeting with Tariq Aziz. And these eye-catching examples would by no means exhaust my repertoire, or empty my quiver. Yes, it must be admitted that Bush and Blair made a hash of a good case, largely because they preferred to scare people rather than enlighten them or reason with them. Still, the only real strategy of deception has come from those who believe, or pretend, that Saddam Hussein was no problem. I have a ready answer to those who accuse me of being an agent and tool of the Bush-Cheney administration (which is the nicest thing that my enemies can find to say). Attempting a little levity, I respond that I could stay at home if the authorities could bother to make their own case, but that I meanwhile am a prisoner of what I actually do know about the permanent hell, and the permanent threat, of the Saddam regime. However, having debated almost all of the spokespeople for the antiwar faction, both the sane and the deranged, I was recently asked a question that I was temporarily unable to answer. "If what you claim is true," the honest citizen at this meeting politely asked me, "how come the White House hasn't told us?" I do in fact know the answer to this question. So deep and bitter is the split within official Washington, most especially between the Defense Department and the CIA, that any claim made by the former has been undermined by leaks from the latter. (The latter being those who maintained, with a combination of dogmatism and cowardice not seen since Lincoln had to fire General McClellan, that Saddam Hussein was both a "secular" actor and--this is the really rich bit--a rational and calculating one.) There's no cure for that illusion, but the resulting bureaucratic chaos and unease has cornered the president into his current fallback upon platitude and hollowness. It has also induced him to give hostages to fortune. The claim that if we fight fundamentalism "over there" we won't have to confront it "over here" is not just a standing invitation for disproof by the next suicide-maniac in London or Chicago, but a coded appeal to provincial and isolationist opinion in the United States. Surely the elementary lesson of the grim anniversary that will shortly be upon us is that American civilians are as near to the front line as American soldiers. It is exactly this point that makes nonsense of the sob-sister tripe pumped out by the Cindy Sheehan circus and its surrogates. But in reply, why bother to call a struggle "global" if you then try to localize it? Just say plainly that we shall fight them everywhere they show themselves, and fight them on principle as well as in practice, and get ready to warn people that Nigeria is very probably the next target of the jihadists. The peaceniks love to ask: When and where will it all end? The answer is easy: It will end with the surrender or defeat of one of the contending parties. Should I add that I am certain which party that ought to be? Defeat is just about imaginable, though the mathematics and the algebra tell heavily against the holy warriors. Surrender to such a foe, after only four years of combat, is not even worthy of consideration. Antaeus was able to draw strength from the earth every time an antagonist wrestled him to the ground. A reverse mythology has been permitted to take hold in the present case, where bad news is deemed to be bad news only for regime-change. Anyone with the smallest knowledge of Iraq knows that its society and infrastructure and institutions have been appallingly maimed and beggared by three decades of war and fascism (and the "divide-and-rule" tactics by which Saddam maintained his own tribal minority of the Sunni minority in power). In logic and morality, one must therefore compare the current state of the country with the likely or probable state of it had Saddam and his sons been allowed to go on ruling. At once, one sees that all the alternatives would have been infinitely worse, and would most likely have led to an implosion--as well as opportunistic invasions from Iran and Turkey and Saudi Arabia, on behalf of their respective interests or confessional clienteles. This would in turn have necessitated a more costly and bloody intervention by some kind of coalition, much too late and on even worse terms and conditions. This is the lesson of Bosnia and Rwanda yesterday, and of Darfur today. When I have made this point in public, I have never had anyone offer an answer to it. A broken Iraq was in our future no matter what, and was a responsibility (somewhat conditioned by our past blunders) that no decent person could shirk. The only unthinkable policy was one of abstention. Two pieces of good fortune still attend those of us who go out on the road for this urgent and worthy cause. The first is contingent: There are an astounding number of plain frauds and charlatans (to phrase it at its highest) in charge of the propaganda of the other side. Just to tell off the names is to frighten children more than Saki ever could: Michael Moore, George Galloway, Jacques Chirac, Tim Robbins, Richard Clarke, Joseph Wilson . . . a roster of gargoyles that would send Ripley himself into early retirement. Some of these characters are flippant, and make heavy jokes about Halliburton, and some disdain to conceal their sympathy for the opposite side. So that's easy enough. The second bit of luck is a certain fiber displayed by a huge number of anonymous Americans. Faced with a constant drizzle of bad news and purposely demoralizing commentary, millions of people stick out their jaws and hang tight. I am no fan of populism, but I surmise that these citizens are clear on the main point: It is out of the question--plainly and absolutely out of the question--that we should surrender the keystone state of the Middle East to a rotten, murderous alliance between Baathists and bin Ladenists. When they hear the fatuous insinuation that this alliance has only been created by the resistance to it, voters know in their intestines that those who say so are soft on crime and soft on fascism. The more temperate anti-warriors, such as Mark Danner and Harold Meyerson, like to employ the term "a war of choice." One should have no problem in accepting this concept. As they cannot and do not deny, there was going to be another round with Saddam Hussein no matter what. To whom, then, should the "choice" of time and place have fallen? The clear implication of the antichoice faction--if I may so dub them--is that this decision should have been left up to Saddam Hussein. As so often before . . . DOES THE PRESIDENT deserve the benefit of the reserve of fortitude that I just mentioned? Only just, if at all. We need not argue about the failures and the mistakes and even the crimes, because these in some ways argue themselves. But a positive accounting could be offered without braggartry, and would include: (1) The overthrow of Talibanism and Baathism, and the exposure of many highly suggestive links between the two elements of this Hitler-Stalin pact. Abu Musab al Zarqawi, who moved from Afghanistan to Iraq before the coalition intervention, has even gone to the trouble of naming his organization al Qaeda in Mesopotamia. (2) The subsequent capitulation of Qaddafi's Libya in point of weapons of mass destruction--a capitulation that was offered not to Kofi Annan or the E.U. but to Blair and Bush. (3) The consequent unmasking of the A.Q. Khan network for the illicit transfer of nuclear technology to Libya, Iran, and North Korea. (4) The agreement by the United Nations that its own reform is necessary and overdue, and the unmasking of a quasi-criminal network within its elite. (5) The craven admission by President Chirac and Chancellor Schröder, when confronted with irrefutable evidence of cheating and concealment, respecting solemn treaties, on the part of Iran, that not even this will alter their commitment to neutralism. (One had already suspected as much in the Iraqi case.) (6) The ability to certify Iraq as actually disarmed, rather than accept the word of a psychopathic autocrat. (7) The immense gains made by the largest stateless minority in the region--the Kurds--and the spread of this example to other states. (8) The related encouragement of democratic and civil society movements in Egypt, Syria, and most notably Lebanon, which has regained a version of its autonomy. (9) The violent and ignominious death of thousands of bin Ladenist infiltrators into Iraq and Afghanistan, and the real prospect of greatly enlarging this number. (10) The training and hardening of many thousands of American servicemen and women in a battle against the forces of nihilism and absolutism, which training and hardening will surely be of great use in future combat. It would be admirable if the president could manage to make such a presentation. It would also be welcome if he and his deputies adopted a clear attitude toward the war within the war: in other words, stated plainly, that the secular and pluralist forces within Afghan and Iraqi society, while they are not our clients, can in no circumstance be allowed to wonder which outcome we favor. The great point about Blair's 1999 speech was that it asserted the obvious. Coexistence with aggressive regimes or expansionist, theocratic, and totalitarian ideologies is not in fact possible. One should welcome this conclusion for the additional reason that such coexistence is not desirable, either. If the great effort to remake Iraq as a demilitarized federal and secular democracy should fail or be defeated, I shall lose sleep for the rest of my life in reproaching myself for doing too little. But at least I shall have the comfort of not having offered, so far as I can recall, any word or deed that contributed to a defeat. Christopher Hitchens is a columnist for Vanity Fair. His most recent book is Thomas Jefferson: Author of America. A recent essay of his appears in the collection A Matter of Principle: Humanitarian Arguments for War in Iraq, newly published by the University of California Press. http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/995phqjw.asp?pg=1 -- "I came into this game for adventure - go anywhere, travel light, get in, get out, wherever there's trouble, a man alone. Now they've got the whole country sectioned off and you can't move without a form. I'm the last of a breed." Archibald "Harry" Tuttle, Heating Engineer From dep at linuxandmain.com Tue Aug 30 06:37:25 2005 From: dep at linuxandmain.com (dep) Date: Tue Aug 30 06:24:57 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] not just hitchens Message-ID: <200508300637.25548.dep@linuxandmain.com> See No Evil, Hear No Evil From the September 5 / September 12, 2005 issue: What the 9/11 Commission narrative left out: Iraqis. by Stephen F. Hayes 09/05/2005, Volume 010, Issue 47 AHMED HIKMAT SHAKIR IS A shadowy figure who provided logistical assistance to one, maybe two, of the 9/11 hijackers. Years before, he had received a phone call from the Jersey City, New Jersey, safehouse of the plotters who would soon, in February 1993, park a truck bomb in the basement of the World Trade Center. The safehouse was the apartment of Musab Yasin, brother of Abdul Rahman Yasin, who scorched his own leg while mixing the chemicals for the 1993 bomb. When Shakir was arrested shortly after the 9/11 attacks, his "pocket litter," in the parlance of the investigators, included contact information for Musab Yasin and another 1993 plotter, a Kuwaiti native named Ibrahim Suleiman. These facts alone, linking the 1993 and 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center, would seem to cry out for additional scrutiny, no? The Yasin brothers and Shakir have more in common. They are all Iraqis. And two of them--Abdul Rahman Yasin and Shakir--went free, despite their participation in attacks on the World Trade Center, at least partly because of efforts made on their behalf by the regime of Saddam Hussein. Both men returned to Iraq--Yasin fled there in 1993 with the active assistance of the Iraqi government. For ten years in Iraq, Abdul Rahman Yasin was provided safe haven and financing by the regime, support that ended only with the coalition intervention in March 2003. Readers of The Weekly Standard may be familiar with the stories of Abdul Rahman Yasin, Musab Yasin, and Ahmed Hikmat Shakir. Readers of the 9/11 Commission's final report are not. Those three individuals are nowhere mentioned in the 428 pages that comprise the body of the 9/11 Commission report. Their names do not appear among the 172 listed in Appendix B of the report, a table of individuals who are mentioned in the text. Two brief footnotes mention Shakir. Why? Why would the 9/11 Commission fail to mention Abdul Rahman Yasin, who admitted his role in the first World Trade Center attack, which killed 6 people, injured more than 1,000, and blew a hole seven stories deep in the North Tower? It's an odd omission, especially since the commission named no fewer than five of his accomplices. Why would the 9/11 Commission neglect Ahmed Hikmat Shakir, a man who was photographed assisting a 9/11 hijacker and attended perhaps the most important 9/11 planning meeting? And why would the 9/11 Commission fail to mention the overlap between the two successful plots to attack the World Trade Center? The answer is simple: The Iraqi link didn't fit the commission's narrative. AS THE TWO SIDES in the current flap over Able Danger, a Pentagon intelligence unit tracking al Qaeda before 9/11, exchange claims and counterclaims in the news media, the work of the 9/11 Commission is receiving long overdue scrutiny. It may be the case, as three individuals associated with the Pentagon unit claim, that Able Danger had identified Mohammed Atta in January or February 2000 and that the 9/11 Commission simply ignored this information because it clashed with the commission's predetermined storyline. We should soon know more. Whatever the outcome of that debate, the 9/11 Commission's deliberate exclusion of the Iraqis from its analysis is indefensible. The investigation into the 9/11 attacks began with an article of faith among those who had conducted U.S. counterterrorism efforts throughout the 1990s: Saddam Hussein's Iraq was not--could not have been--involved in any way. On September 12, 2001, the day after the attacks, George W. Bush asked Richard Clarke to investigate the attacks and possible Iraqi involvement in them. Clarke, as he relates in his bestselling book, was offended even to be asked. He knew better. Philip Zelikow, executive director of the 9/11 Commission, started from the same assumption. So did Douglas MacEachin, a former deputy director of the CIA for intelligence who led the commission's study of al Qaeda and was responsible for the commission's conclusion that there was "no collaborative operational relationship" between Iraq and al Qaeda. (Over the course of the commission's life, MacEachin refused several interviews with The Weekly Standard because, we were told, he disagreed with our understanding of the relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda.) >From the evidence now available, it seems clear that Saddam Hussein did not direct the 9/11 attacks. Few people have ever claimed he did. But some four years after the attacks of September 11, 2001, and one year after the 9/11 Commission released its final report, there is much we do not know. The determination of these officials to write out of the history any Iraqi involvement in terrorism against America has contributed mightily to public misperceptions about the former Iraqi regime and the war on terror. HERE IS WHAT WE KNOW TODAY about Ahmed Hikmat Shakir. In August 1999, Shakir, a 37-year-old Iraqi, accepted a position as a "facilitator" at the airport in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. A "facilitator" works for an airline and assists VIP travelers with paperwork required for entry and other logistical issues. Shakir got the job because someone in the Iraqi embassy in Malaysia wanted him to have it. He started that fall. Although Shakir officially worked for Malaysian Airlines, his contact in the Iraqi embassy controlled his schedule. On January 5, 2000, Shakir apparently received an assignment from his embassy contact. He was to escort a recent arrival through immigration at the airport. Khalid al Mihdhar, a well-connected al Qaeda member who would later help hijack American Airlines Flight 77, had come to Malaysia for an important al Qaeda meeting that would last at least three days. (Shakir may have also assisted Nawaf al Hazmi, another hijacker, thought to have arrived on January 4, 2000.) Malaysian intelligence photographed Shakir greeting al Mihdhar at the airport and walking him to a waiting car. But rather than see the new arrival off, he hopped in the car with al Mihdhar and accompanied him to the meeting. Malaysian intelligence has provided its photographs to the CIA. While U.S. officials can place Shakir at the meeting with the hijackers and several high-ranking al Qaeda operatives, they do not know whether Shakir participated actively. (Also present at the meeting were Hambali, al Qaeda's top man in South Asia, and Khallad, later identified as the mastermind of the attack on the USS Cole.) The meeting concluded on January 8, 2000. Shakir reported to work at the airport on January 9 and January 10, and then never again. Khalid al Mihdhar and Nawaz al Hazmi also disappeared briefly, then flew from Bangkok, Thailand, to Los Angeles on January 15, 2000. Shakir, the Iraqi-born facilitator, would be arrested six days after the September 11 attacks by authorities in Doha, Qatar. According to an October 7, 2002, article by Newsweek's Michael Isikoff and Daniel Klaidman, "A search of Shakir's apartment in Doha, the country's capital, yielded a treasure trove, including telephone records linking him to suspects in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and Project Bojinka, a 1994 Manila plot to blow up civilian airliners over the Pacific Ocean." (Isikoff, it should be noted, has been a prominent skeptic of an Iraq-al Qaeda connection.) Shakir had contact information for a lot of bad people. As noted, one was a Kuwaiti, Ibrahim Suleiman, whose fingerprints were found on the bombmaking manuals U.S. authorities allege were used in preparation for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Suleiman was convicted of perjury and deported to Jordan. Another was Musab Yasin, the brother of 1993 Trade Center bomber Abdul Rahman Yasin. Yet another was Zahid Sheikh Mohammed, brother of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11 attacks, now in U.S. custody. Shakir also had an old number for Taba Investments, an al Qaeda front group. It was the number long used by Mahmdouh Mahmud Salim, the highest-ranking Iraqi member of al Qaeda. According to testimony from al Qaeda informants, Salim maintained a good relationship with Saddam's intelligence service. Despite all of this, the Qatari authorities released Shakir shortly after they arrested him. On October 21, 2001, Shakir flew to Amman, Jordan, where he hoped to board a plane to Baghdad. But authorities in Jordan arrested him for questioning. Shakir was held in a Jordanian prison for three months without being charged, prompting Amnesty International to write the Jordanian government seeking an explanation. The CIA questioned Shakir and concluded that he had received training in counter-interrogation techniques. Shortly after Shakir was detained, Saddam's government began to pressure Jordanian intelligence--with a mixture of diplomatic overtures and threats--to release Shakir. They got their wish on January 28, 2002. He is believed to have returned promptly to Baghdad. I have discussed Shakir with nine U.S. government officials--policymakers and intelligence officials alike. The timeline above represents the consensus view. Two weeks before the 9/11 Commission's final report was released to the public, the Senate Select Intelligence Committee released its own evaluation of the intelligence on Iraq. The Senate report added to the Shakir story. The first connection to the [9/11] attack involved Ahmed Hikmat Shakir, an Iraqi national, who facilitated the travel of one of the September 11 hijackers to Malaysia in January 2000. [Redacted.] A foreign government service reported that Shakir worked for four months as an airport facilitator in Kuala Lumpur at the end of 1999 and beginning of 2000. Shakir claimed he got this job through Ra'ad al-Mudaris, an Iraqi Embassy employee. [Redacted.] Another source claimed that al-Mudaris was a former IIS [Iraqi Intelligence Service] officer. The CIA judged in "Iraqi Support for Terrorism," however, that al-Mudaris' [redacted] that the circumstances surrounding the hiring of Shakir for this position did not suggest it was done on behalf of the IIS. A note about that last sentence: The Senate committee report is a devastating indictment of the CIA's woefully inadequate collection of intelligence on Iraq, and its equally flawed analysis. It is of course possible that the CIA's judgment about al Mudaris is correct, but the bulk of the report inspires no confidence that it is. Consider the three new facts in this brief summary. One, Shakir himself told interrogators that an Iraqi embassy employee got him the job that allowed him to help the hijacker(s). Two, that Iraqi embassy employee was Ra'ad al Mudaris. Three, another source identified al Mudaris as former Iraqi Intelligence. All of this information was known to the U.S. intelligence community months before the 9/11 Commission completed its investigation. And yet none of it appeared in the final report. Two footnotes are the sum total of what the 9/11 Commission had to say about Ahmed Hikmat Shakir. Here is the more substantive, footnote 49 to Chapter 6, on page 502 of the 567-page report: "Mihdhar was met at the Kuala Lumpur airport by Ahmed Hikmat Shakir, an Iraqi national. Reports that he was a lieutenant colonel in the Iraqi Fedayeen turned out to be incorrect. They were based on a confusion of Shakir's identity with that of an Iraqi Fedayeen colonel with a similar name, who was later (in September 2001) in Iraq at the same time Shakir was in police custody in Qatar." The report is sourced to a briefing from the CIA's counterterrorism center and a story in the Washington Post. And that's it. Readers of the 9/11 Commission report who bothered to study the footnotes might wonder who Shakir was, what he was doing with a 9/11 hijacker in Malaysia, and why he was ever "in police custody in Qatar." They might also wonder why the report, while not addressing those questions, went out of its way to provide information about who he was not. Such readers are still wondering. There is no doubt the 9/11 Commission had this information at its disposal. On the very day it released its final report, commissioner John Lehman told me that Shakir's many connections to al Qaeda and Saddam's regime suggested something more than random chance. So how is it that the Senate Select Intelligence Committee report contains a substantive account of Shakir's mysterious contribution to the 9/11 plot, while the 9/11 Commission report--again, released two weeks later--simply ignores it? We now know even more about Shakir's Iraqi embassy contact, Ra'ad al Mudaris. The post-Saddam Iraqi government launched its own, secret investigation of al Mudaris and his activities. Al Mudaris was a "local employee" of the Iraqi embassy in Kuala Lumpur. That is, he was an Iraqi already living in Malaysia when he began working officially for the embassy. Although Shakir named him as his Iraqi embassy contact and another source noted his affiliation with the Iraqi Intelligence Service, the U.S. government never arrested al Mudaris. He continued his nominal employment at the Iraqi embassy in Kuala Lumpur even after the Iraq war, outliving the regime that had employed him. He left that position early last fall, shortly after he was named publicly in the Senate Select Intelligence Committee report. A senior Iraqi government official tells The Weekly Standard that al Mudaris still lives in Malaysia, a free man. BY THE END OF LAST WEEK, the demands for more information on Able Danger had reached fever pitch. The Pentagon claimed to have launched an aggressive investigation into the project. 9/11 Commission co-chairman Thomas Kean was demanding more information on Able Danger from the National Security Council. And Senator Arlen Specter, a Pennsylvania Republican who is chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, fired off a hard-hitting letter to FBI director Robert Mueller demanding answers to a series of questions about the Pentagon unit and its interactions with the FBI. Answers about Able Danger would be nice, but it is surely long past time for answers on Ahmed Hikmat Shakir, Abdul Rahman Yasin, and Musab Yasin. The 9/11 Commission itself and other relevant bodies should reexamine Shakir's role in the 9/11 plot and his connections to the 1993 World Trade Center plotters. The Bush administration should move quickly to declassify all of the intelligence the U.S. government possesses on Shakir and the Yasin brothers. The Senate and House intelligence committee should demand answers on the three Iraqis from the CIA, the DIA, and the FBI. Here are some of the questions they might ask: * Ahmed Hikmat Shakir was arrested in Doha, Qatar, just six days after the 9/11 attacks. How was he apprehended so quickly? Was the CIA monitoring his activities? What did the 9/11 Commission know about this arrest? And why wasn't it included in the 9/11 Commission's final report? * Who identified Shakir's Iraqi embassy contact, Ra'ad al Mudaris, as former Iraqi Intelligence? Is the source credible? If not, why not? * Have other detainees been asked about Ahmed Hikmat Shakir? If so, what have they said? * What do the former employees of the Iraqi embassy in Malaysia tell us about Ahmed Hikmat Shakir and Ra'ad al Mudaris? * Has anyone from the U.S. government interviewed Ra'ad al Mudaris? If so, how does he explain his activities? * Have the names Ahmed Hikmat Shakir and Ra'ad al Mudaris surfaced in any of the documents captured in postwar Iraq from the Iraqi Intelligence headquarters in Baghdad? * How long was the phone call between Ahmed Hikmat Shakir and the safehouse shortly before the 1993 World Trade Center attack? * Does the U.S. government have other indications that Ahmed Hikmat Shakir and the 1993 World Trade Center bombers were in contact, either before or after that attack? * Vice President Dick Cheney has spoken publicly about documents that indicate Abdul Rahman Yasin was provided safe haven and financing upon his return to Iraq in 1993. The FBI is blocking declassification of those documents, despite the fact that Yasin is on the FBI Most Wanted Terrorist list. Why? * Before Operation Iraqi Freedom, Abdul Rahman Yasin, Musab Yasin, and Ahmed Hikmat Shakir were all believed to be in Iraq. Where are they today? Stephen F. Hayes is a senior writer at The Weekly Standard. -- dep Reporting a crooked lawyer to the bar association is like reporting a child molester to NAMBLA. -- me From rluchor at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 19:11:51 2005 From: rluchor at gmail.com (Rich) Date: Tue Aug 30 19:17:38 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] A Strong Lady Message-ID: <001801c5adb8$379dbfc0$0300000a@oemcomputer> Don't know if this is a real letter or not but the sentiment is how a lot of people feel. I do. I also know some of you are against the war and I am not sending it to you to offend you but just to let you know how some of us view the situation. Here is a strong lady!!!! Could not have said this any better myself! Especially today - The lady that wrote this letter is Pam Foster of Pamela Foster and Associates in Atlanta. She's been in business since 1980 doing interior design and home planning. She recently wrote a letter to a family member serving in Iraq. Read it! WHAT'S ALL THE FUSS? Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001? Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania? Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing death that day, or didn't they? And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? Well, I don't. I don't care at all! I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11. I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia. I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling, slashed throat. I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques. I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights. I'll care when judges stop ordering my government to release photos of the abuses at Abu Ghraib, which are sure to set off the Islamic extremists just as Newsweek's lies did a few weeks ago. In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care. When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care. When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank that I don't care. When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care. And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and -- you guessed it -- I don't care!" From rluchor at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 19:13:41 2005 From: rluchor at gmail.com (Rich) Date: Tue Aug 30 19:19:44 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Passing of a generation Message-ID: <002a01c5adb8$7824ea00$0300000a@oemcomputer> http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/PASSINGOFGENERATION.HTML From daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 00:45:58 2005 From: daniel.lee.kruse at gmail.com (Daniel Kruse) Date: Wed Aug 31 00:46:49 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] A Strong Lady In-Reply-To: <001801c5adb8$379dbfc0$0300000a@oemcomputer> References: <001801c5adb8$379dbfc0$0300000a@oemcomputer> Message-ID: <46d72e000508302145597e7987@mail.gmail.com> Very well said. On 8/30/05, Rich wrote: > > > > Don't know if this is a real letter or not but the sentiment is how a > lot of people feel. I do. I also know some of you are against the war > and I am not sending it to you to offend you but just to let you know > how some of us view the situation. > > Here is a strong lady!!!! Could not have said this any better myself! > Especially today - The lady that wrote this letter is Pam Foster of > Pamela Foster and Associates in Atlanta. She's been in business since > 1980 doing interior design and home planning. She recently wrote a > letter to a family member serving in Iraq. Read it! > > > > WHAT'S ALL THE FUSS? > > Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not > > started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September > 11, 2001? > > Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally > murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our > nation's capitol and in a field in Pennsylvania? Did nearly three > thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning or crushing > death that day, or didn't they? > > And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" > when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? Well, I > don't. I don't care at all! > > I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents > for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11. > > I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start > caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime > in Saudi Arabia. > > I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for > hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling, > slashed throat. > > I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out > and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by > hiding in mosques. > > I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search > of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their > suicide bombs > > I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First > Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead > of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights. > > I'll care when judges stop ordering my government to release photos > of the abuses at Abu Ghraib, which are sure to set off the Islamic > extremists just as Newsweek's lies did a few weeks ago. > > In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up > an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care. > > When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have > been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident, rest > assured that I don't care. > > When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told > not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the > bank that I don't care. > > When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran and a prayer mat, > and fed "special" food that is paid for by my tax dollars, is > complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can > absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care. > > And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" > and other times "Quran." Well, Jimmy Crack Corn and -- you guessed it > -- I don't care!" > > _______________________________________________ > os2-right-stuff-l mailing list > os2-right-stuff-l@jtan.com > http://mailman.jtan.com/mailman/listinfo/os2-right-stuff-l > From daniel.d.clarke at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 06:53:29 2005 From: daniel.d.clarke at gmail.com (daniel clarke) Date: Wed Aug 31 06:55:18 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Spin doctors massarging the media Message-ID: This one might interest a few of you - should at least get the juices flowing. http://truthorspin.com/ We're all aware of how much 'Spin' goes on in politics today. Whilst this isn't a completely new thing, it's come to the fore-front particularly in the UK in recent years with the likes of Alistair Cambel, doing his thing. Well it seems somebody has gone and made a movie about it (see link above) Question then to all off you. What's the best/worst piece of spin/propaganda you've ever read/seen/heard ? From mriddle at papillion.ne.us Wed Aug 31 12:44:08 2005 From: mriddle at papillion.ne.us (Mike Riddle) Date: Wed Aug 31 12:44:52 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] What if Hurricane Ivan... Message-ID: <20050831164408.GCBR23224.centrmmtao06.cox.net@enigmaster> Interesting predictions from last year about a major whoopsie in NO. http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/o/nov04/nov04c.html From prather.js at verizon.net Wed Aug 31 16:48:13 2005 From: prather.js at verizon.net (Jerry Prather) Date: Wed Aug 31 16:50:02 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Fwd: FwNew Heavenly Policy Message-ID: <0IM300CGHTSF76W1@vms040.mailsrvcs.net> I just HAD to pass this one on... ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== > It was getting a little crowded in Heaven, so God > decided to change the > admittance policy. > The new law was that in order to get into Heaven, you > had to have a really > bummer day on the day that you died. The policy would go > into effect at noon > the next day. > So, the next day at 12:01 the first person came to the > gates of Heaven. The > Angel at the gate, remembering the new policy, promptly > asked the man, > "Before I let you in, I need you to tell me how your day > was going when you died." > > "No problem," the man said. I came home to my 25th-floor > apartment on my > lunch hour and caught my wife having an affair. But her > lover was nowhere in > sight. I immediately began searching for him. My wife was > half naked and > yelling at me as I searched the entire apartment. Just > as I was about to give up, I > happened to glance out onto the balcony and noticed that > there was a man > hanging off the edge by his fingertips! The nerve of > that guy! > Well, I ran out onto the balcony and stomped on his > fingers until he fell > to the ground. But wouldn't you know it, he landed in > some trees and bushes > that broke his fall and he didn't die. > This ticked me off even more. In a rage, I went back > inside to get the first > thing I could get my hands on to throw at him. Oddly > enough, the first thing > I thought of was the refrigerator. I unplugged it, > pushed it out onto the > balcony, and tipped it over the side. It plummeted 25 > stories and crushed him! > The excitement of the moment was so great that I had a > heart attack and died > almost instantly." > The Angel sat back and thought a moment. Technically, > the guy did have a > bad day. It was a crime of passion. So, the Angel > announced, "OK sir. Welcome > to the Kingdom of Heaven," and let him in. > A few seconds later the next guy came up. To the Angel's > surprise, it was > Donald Trump. "Mr. Trump, before I can let you in, I need > to hear about what > your day was like when you died." > Trump said, "No problem. But you're not going to believe > this. I was on the > balcony of my 26th floor apartment doing my daily > exercises. I had been under > a lot of pressure so I was really pushing hard to > relieve my stress. I > guess I got a little carried away, slipped, and > accidentally fell over the side! > Luckily, I was able to catch myself by the fingertips on > the balcony below > mine. But all of a sudden this crazy man comes running > out of his apartment, > starts cussing, and stomps on my fingers. Well, of > course I fell. I hit some trees and bushes at the > bottom, which broke my > fall, so I didn't die right away. > As I'm laying there face up on the ground, unable to > move and in > excruciating pain, I see this guy push his refrigerator, > of all things, off the balcony. > It falls the 25 floors and lands on top of > me, killing me instantly." > The Angel is quietly laughing to himself as Trump > finishes his story. "I > could get used to this new policy," he thinks to himself. > "Very well," the > Angel announces. "Welcome to the Kingdom of > Heaven," and he lets Trump enter. > A few seconds later, Bill Clinton comes up to the gate. > The Angel is > almost too shocked to speak. Thoughts of assassination > and war pour through the > Angel's head. Finally he says "Mr. President, > please tell me what it was like the day you died." > Clinton says, "OK, > picture this. I'm naked inside a refrigerator" > ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== Jerry -- Porcupines are peaceful creatures but God still saw fit to give them quills. -Unknown From bob at sixtiessurvivor.org Wed Aug 31 20:16:22 2005 From: bob at sixtiessurvivor.org (Bob Bernstein) Date: Wed Aug 31 20:17:57 2005 Subject: [os2-right-stuff-l] Read This... Message-ID: <33922.68.9.96.76.1125533782.squirrel@68.9.96.76> Linked on drudge tonight: http://www.techcentralstation.com/083105JKG.html -- Bob Bernstein ...in the common Practice of the World, those who possess most Wealth, make the least Parade; which they leave to others, who have nothing else to bear them out, in shewing their Faces on the Exchange. Jonathan Swift, "A Short View of the State of Ireland", 1727